[vishnurp99]

Took a look at global times site today (chinese media outlet). Some statements from a Chinese news conference today.

"Countries that believe they have won the Cold War so they can dominate the world, countries neglect others' concern and pushed for five rounds of NATO expansion and countries that have waged wars around the world but blamed others, should truly feel uncomfortable,"


"The US government's decision on NATO's eastward expansion is directly linked to the current crisis in Ukraine, Zhao said, adding that the key to resolving the Ukraine crisis lies in the hands of the United States and NATO, and China hopes that the United States can truly stand on the side of peace and justice with most developing countries in the world to ease the situation in Ukraine"

China seems to be backing Russia strongly so far. I am actually surprised by the verbiage.

https://www.globaltimes.cn//special-...-Timeline.html

A Russian perspective from a journalist who is in Moscow. Summarizing for folks who have not seen the video so far.

Ukraine is no push-over militarily and has the second largest army/land mass in Europe.
Russia is not doing indiscriminate use of military power to it's full potential. They want the Kiev government to agree to their demands.
Russian objectives like demilitarization, neutral status with NATO was repeated.
Apparently there is minimal impact on the Russian day to day life so far but he expects that there will be impact over next few week.
He didn't deny that senior general level officers have been killed in battle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bqAneg5-E4

[AltoLXI]

Arnold Schwarzenegger's appeal to stop the war. Liked it for the presentation - only,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adriprgrW6w

[deetee]

If only the US and WEST didn't get involved, sequence of events could have been dramatically different, even the humanitarian crisis could have been averted.
Had there been no external (military) support to Ukraine - 1.) Russia wouldn't have seen Ukraine as a thorn in its throne. 2.) even if it attacked, Ukraine would have thought of either becoming a vassal state or getting annexed. But, that still makes Russia the villian in eyes of the world, but with lot less blood spilled on ground. Either way humanitarian crisis could have been avoided.

Now, with shadow participation of the West, this war has turned into a quagmire from which neither side can pull out on their own. Humanitarian crisis is the collateral damage due to the gameplay of both sides. Blood is on all hands. And the ripple effects are spreading across the globe.

This is like a geopolitical quake with epicentre as Ukraine. The Tsunami warning is not blown, but it seems to be building up.

[CarNerd]

The Great Elon Musk has challenged Vladimir Putin for a Fight! He has bet on Ukraine and offered to fight with only his left hand:








Musk is 6'2", 82Kg, 50 Yrs Old
Putin is 5'5", 70Kg, 69 Yrs Old

May be Musk should send Biden to fight Putin

http://youtu.be/U5Mwc12LtRY

[SnS_12]

Joe Biden sent his assistant Boris to clean up his mess and ask UAE and Saudi to cut down on their profits so that Western countries don’t loose money by paying higher oil bills. That was a great business offer especially after how Biden humiliated MBS by declassifying Khashoggi killing files. Wonder why he rejected the proposal then??

https://youtu.be/UvADqcz1J4s

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

Musk is 6'2", 82Kg, 50 Yrs Old
Putin is 5'5", 70Kg, 69 Yrs Old

Putin is a Judo practitioner since teens, his black belt may be legit, if not the 5th degree, that is honorary I think. Musk has dabbled in martial arts, but I doubt he was ever a seriously into it.

Despite the age and weight disadvantage, Putin may have an edge.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

The Great Elon Musk has challenged Vladimir Putin for a Fight! He has bet on Ukraine and offered to fight with only his left hand:

The same guy once wrote "We will coup whoever we want. Deal with it." (not sure if in jest) in relation to the coup in Bolivia.

On July 24, 2020, Tesla’s Elon Musk wrote on Twitter that a second US “government stimulus package is not in the best interests of the people.” Someone responded to Musk soon after, “You know what wasn’t in the best interest of people? The US government organizing a coup against Evo Morales in Bolivia so you could obtain the lithium there.” Musk then wrote: “We will coup whoever we want! Deal with it.”

Whether or not Musk was joking, the pattern is familiar:

Musk refers here to the coup against President Evo Morales Ayma, who was removed illegally from his office in November 2019. Morales had just won an election for a term that was to have begun in January 2020. Even if there was a challenge against that election, Morales’ term should rightfully have continued through November and December of 2019. Instead, the Bolivian military, at the behest of Bolivia’s far right and the United States government, threatened Morales; Morales went into exile in Mexico and is now in Argentina.

At that time, the “evidence” of fraud was offered by the far right and by a “preliminary report” by the Organization of American States; only after Morales was removed from office was there grudging acknowledgement by the liberal media that there was in fact no evidence of fraud. It was too late for Bolivia, which has been condemned to a dangerous government that has suspended democracy in the country.

Source

And the Trump administration’s support has been overt: the White House promoted the “fraud” narrative, and its Orwellian statement following the coup praised it: “Morales’s departure preserves democracy and paves the way for the Bolivian people to have their voices heard.” According to the Los Angeles Times: “Carlos Trujillo, the US ambassador to the OAS, had steered the group’s election-monitoring team to report widespread fraud and pushed the Trump administration to support the ouster of Morales.”

Source

The ousted party came back in power with the elections held in October 2020.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

The Great Elon Musk has challenged Vladimir Putin for a Fight! He has bet on Ukraine and offered to fight with only his left hand

Did the Ukranian people give him the right for him to do so!

Such "greats" do know how to use sentiments of people to gain publicity for their own purposes. Better we don't play a cog in their wheel of publicity beyond exposing them.

Mate, the Biden joke was funny

Originally Posted by warrioraks

By some accounts, it seems that Russia wants to end this war by giving Ukraine a way out. But Ukraine does not want to bite.
...
In fact the recent messages from the West seem to be escalatory in nature...

Mate, there is a lot of posturing which goes on at early stages; to test waters to get a sense the limits of what the other side might be willing to forgo and what it might expect in return.

Unless Putin and co. end up in a situation where they think that further advances are unviable (and it would not be easy for a force like Russia to reach such), I really doubt they would get to a settlement before cutting off uncontrolled Ukraine from the Black Sea. Unless Ukraine steps back after Kyiv (unlikely), the next frontier is likely to be Odessa City and around in the South-West. It is a major port. South West of Odessa city is a region between Moldova and the Black Sea, which has more of a Russian bent, and could well be easier to get into the Russian fold.

Cutting off the rest of Ukraine from the Black Sea would give them a lot more leverage in negotiations, with Odessa being an immediate important factor (vital for exports, I am told).

Further, in case there are no conclusive agreements in the short term and things escalate further I imagine Russia would want to control of this region directly or indirectly.

If it really comes to Russia splitting the country in parts, it appears to make sense to keep it as a Russian lineage dominated part along with keeping some of the important Ukrainian parts so that a future Russian favouring leaders can win easily. This indicates the Eastern, Southern and part of Central (which is more Ukrainian); Central to keep more water control and of course Kyiv. IIRC this also tallies with past voting patterns in the country.

So, unless they really find some very favourable deal, or reach a very difficult situation (both unlikely), I'd imagine Russia to only be posturing than seriously wanting to end it now.
----
West Escalation point: The US and it's proxies would want this to get prolonged (have elaborated on why the US might want so in the post about Zelensky), but not as much in the interest of much of Europe.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Did the Ukranian people give him the right for him to do so!

American are self proclaimed protector of the world in general. They are the only country to use an atomic bomb to kill innocent civilians including children and destroying many future generations but sold it to the world in history books that it was required to do so and the only way to stop WWII.

They don’t care for other human beings and their suffering till the time their interest’s are full filled. I am sure their intelligence gathering is not so flawed that they don’t know who carried out the theatre bombing in the city of Mariupol. But still they believed the Ukraine government (unless US is involved directly) and blamed it on the Russians for it as it works in their interest doesn’t it?

People read/hear/see in the media that Putin bombs and kills innocent civilians including children and everyone believes it in a instant.

If the same media said that Mahatma Gandhi threw a stone at a kid during Dandi March what do you think how many would think and ponder if this is fake news?

The answer is Perception which the western media has changed by creating such a negative image of Russia and Putin that you will believe anything evil you see read or hear about them because he is portrayed as a dictator and a evil man who wants to destroy the world.

The effect is so bad that even educated people will defend American actions but will argue in their favour when people point fingers at them and tell you don’t compare Russia with US. Really?

These are the same people who left Afghanistan people to die and many of whom supported them with their so called War for justice. Heck, they even left back their own American citizens behind to figure it out for themselves and here we are lectured if someone speaks in favour of Russia.

Originally Posted by Poitive

Such "greats" do know how to use sentiments of people to gain publicity for their own purposes. Better we don't play a cog in their wheel of publicity beyond exposing them.

Anything that helps with good publicity like the mini submarine for the Thai football team stuck in the cave or the ventilators he promised during the pandemic, who cares if he kept his word or not he will always say I tried and people will defend him.

I guess someone from his raw material procurement team needs to educate him that they need Aluminium and Nickel for his Green Cars and Russia is the third largest Nickel producer. So unless he wants his prized Tesla share to trade in three digits starting with a 1 he should just zip up.

The Americans if they really want to do good for the world then they have to give back respect to Russia that they deserve to see a change in their behaviour.

This whole Ukraine incident is going currently like this..

Putin to the West - Before invading Ukraine all he was asking is that they need a firm commitment of Ukraine not going to be a part of NATO.

West after Putin invaded Ukraine - Thinking and asking after 20 days of ongoing war, what does Putin want????

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by SnS_12

The Americans if they really want to do good for the world...

TLDR - the West has a formidable propaganda machine in its weapons arsenal. It can make people believe that a nuclear strike by the US has a therapeutic effect on human health!

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Interesting how the cover of a "Respected" Magazine changes across different regions and wars.

Attachment 2285507

Another "Respected" and Global News Source:



Social media channels and private messaging groups are being used in Russia to recruit a new brigade of mercenaries to fight in Ukraine alongside the army, the BBC has learned.

The BBC has spoken to a serving mercenary and a former fighter with close links to one of Russia's leading mercenary organisations, who have shared details of the recruitment campaign.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60711211



Wanted: multilingual former soldiers willing to covertly head into Ukraine for the handsome sum of up to $2,000 (£1,523) per day - plus bonus - to help rescue families from an increasingly grim conflict.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60669763

[poloman]

We shall not leave you; we will not forgive Russians: Prez Zelenskyy tells Ukrainians

More and more this guy is sounding like a hero in a third grade Hollywood war film. US and allies are getting free war practice against Russia at the cost of poor Ukrainians. This guy is shouting great nothings when people are dying in the streets. He should call the bluff of Americans and enter in to some sort of agreement with Russia. A cornered Putin can be extremely dangerous, when he feels he has nothing to lose.

[vishnurp99]

South Africa is calling out NATO over the Ukraine issue. Along with China, they are the second major country who has clearly called out NATO now. I wonder how Indian parliamentarians will react if there is a debate on this issue in our Parliament.

"The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.

"There are those who are insisting that we should take a very adversarial stance against Russia. The approach we are going to take (instead) is ... insisting that there should be dialogue," Ramaphosa added. "Screaming and shouting is not going to bring an end to this conflict."

But he added that South Africa "cannot condone the use of force and violation of international law" - an apparent reference to Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine.

Ramaphosa's African National Congress party, which has governed South Africa since white minority rule ended in 1994, had strong ties to the former Soviet Union, which trained and supported anti-apartheid activists during the Cold War.

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa...ne-2022-03-17/

[DicKy]

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has had many unintended consequences. One of the lesser known ones is that imported newsprint – on which your favourite newspaper is printed – has almost vanished from the market, leaving Indian newspapers struggling to find supplies.
But why should that be so? Well, for one thing, Russia accounts for almost 45% of Indian newsprint imports. Due to the Ukraine conflict, several major global shipping companies have stopped bookings to and from Russian ports, creating a logjam of containers there. The sanctions on Russian banks are expected to make trade even harder. Another fallout is the runaway inflation of global energy prices (natural gas, coal) which constitute almost 30% of the cost of newsprint production at paper mills.

If getting imported newsprint is a challenge, why not purchase more from domestic manufacturers? Well, because there is a supply crunch in India too. Several domestic newsprint manufacturers are converting their mills to produce packaging material due to large volume growth in e-commerce. Chinese orders for packaging grades have accelerated as global consumer demand continues to be strong on the back of high liquidity infusion by central banks and shifting of consumer expenditure from services to goods.
Only a handful of Indian mills continue to produce newsprint. Even these mills are facing an acute shortage of recycled fibre, which is sourced from old newspapers and sorted office papers and is a critical input in the production of newsprint. Unfortunately, waste paper generation collapsed during successive waves of Covid. Traditional collection and sorting systems of recycled paper are still in disarray.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/90297695.cms

Another side effect.

[darkfantasy]

The United States did not start this particular war. The amount of hypocrisy in the west is well known, but that doesn't mean Russia isn't wrong in this particular conflict.

1. Ukraine is a free country with a democratically elected government. They have a right to join whatever alliance they want despite the big bully next door. The Russians have no right to dictate what Ukraine should or shouldn't do.

2. No one is forcibly inducted into NATO, unlike the eastern European countries which were inducted into the Soviet block with much violence. Read what happened to Hungary after WW2.

3. The United States does not stay long term where it isn't welcome. It has bases all over the world because countries feel secure with them. They ask for US bases - they pay for it. With countries like Russia and China on the prowl who can blame them.

4. Countries look at their own self-interest. No country will spend its own blood and money to save someone else - if they don't serve their own strategic interests. All else is plain propaganda.

5. We live at what's essentially called pax Americana. With the rise of China, just wait and see how it adversely affects India. Diminishing Western power does not bode well for our own strategic interests with powerful hostile neighbours around.

6. Just see how Russia treats its own soldiers to understand the difference between Russia and the USA. When there is a problem the Americans throw money at it. The Russians, though seem to throw their own countrymen's lives at it.

7. Some people argue that Ukraine should just surrender to Russians to avoid the loss of civilian lives. I suppose the same people will argue that we should just give Pakistan our Kashmir to avoid terrorist attacks and China our Arunachal to avoid border attacks. Pacification never works. If you don't stand up to your bully, you might never stand up at all.

8. America like all OTHER countries is a treacherous ally. It looks at its own benefit like all OTHER countries. It isn't better or worse. If it is a policeman it is a very selfish policeman. All countries are. That is the point.

9. We, India should continue to do what is best for us. We should look at our own strategic interests and not get swayed by propaganda by either side.

10. If my post seems pro-American it is only because the other posts are overwhelmingly pro-Russian. The Russians seem to be wrong in this particular conflict and no amount of whataboutery is going to cover that up.