[JithinR]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

Imagine, if India cuts some river that flow to China. Can anyone imagine that there won't be war. Let's say we do this to even Pakistan on the Indus. Would this be tolerated?

Shouldn't your question actually be:

Imagine, if China had attacked India and occupied it's territory and then India cuts some river that flow to the territory now illegally occupied by China. Can anyone imagine that there won't be war.

Is this something that Indians would tolerate? You can answer your own question now.

In other news, saw one more example of a true Russian patriot standing up to that madman and his cronies.

https://youtu.be/nmn_r_yelJ8

He is probably on his way to a Gulag now. Oh wait... ​since we seem to have a lot of people with a fetish for deranged strongmen (forever trying to recapture the past glory of their motherland) maybe we borrow an idea from the Chinese and start calling these Gulags as re-education camps.

[Fraz33r]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

IMHO, there has been some grave provocations from the Ukraine. Putin seems to have bid his time and made the move at a suitable time.

Your answer for Crimea lies in this video. Jhithin is correct in adding that, if you think you can take a part away from Ukraine forcibly, don't expect Ukranians to provide free water and not choke Crimea.
This war is for "ENERGY" and Russian dominance, nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Shouldn't your question actually be:

Imagine, if China had attacked India and occupied it's territory and then India cuts some river that flow to the territory now illegally occupied by China. Can anyone imagine that there won't be war.

Hello, can you imagine two nuclear armed countries fighting 5 wars and one country occupying territory of another country, and yet that other country still giving riverine water to the downstream country?

Can you also imagine a superpower country damming its rivers so that a poor landlocked country downstream has to basically sell off their entire electricity grid & hydroelectric power generation to that country?

Hint - both are actual cases. In South Asia.

Ergo if rules based order is followed for international diplomacy, cutting off water is a humanitarian crime and probably an act of war.

Does that answer your question?

[Samurai]

Please don't stray into other political topics however related. We have given one time exception on Ukraine invasion because there is a war on and people want to talk about it. - Support Team

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Ergo if rules based order is followed for international diplomacy, cutting off water is a humanitarian crime and probably an act of war.

Agreed that it's a humanitarian crime but when Russia invaded Ukraine and occupied Crimea that was an act of war right? They can't really expect Ukraine to help them occupy their territory.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Shouldn't your question actually be:

Imagine, if China had attacked India and occupied it's territory and then India cuts some river that flow to the territory now illegally occupied by China. Can anyone imagine that there won't be war.

That is exactly the question and we know the answer. There will be a war which will make 1962 or even 71 look like a joke. India can do this on some of it's rivers - brahmaputra & indus respectively but we won't do this since we know the consequences. The world will probably side with the aggrieved party in this case.

Now coming to Crimea, other members including myself have repeatedly pointed out why that area is critical for Russia to retain it's sovereignity. It would be unthinkable for the second most powerful country to loose one of it's largest fleets and only all weather port. Keep in mind that there was no invasion or setting up of a new base. Russians just ensured that they will be able to use the base that they have always been using.

When USSR disintegrated, Russia took up the substantial debts of Ukraine in return for Ukraine giving up Nukes and allowing Russia to continue using it's base. Ukraine's provocative actions and USA's visible influence in setting up rulers who Russia saw as a puppet & aligned to USA interests made Russia take this preemptive action.
I repeat - This doesn't seem to be a unilateral war from Russia regardless of the propoganda from the west.

I also thank all the posters on this thread for the information which has been shared which helped me form an informed opinion. When I started following this thread, I had really bought into the Western narrative but this has been pretty eye opening.

Finally war has no victors. I don't support Russia in it's war effort. I really don't know much about Russia unlike the USA where I have lived for many years and I continue to work with many upstanding Americans and have an active visa. USA is meritocratic and democratic which is really admirable but now I understand that Russia/Putin is not pure evil.

[Samurai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QoskzLj3w

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The Chinese are now speaking up and it is not what you expected

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

What if this discovery of Ukraine bio-labs is linked to the pandemic ? That would turn this entire geopolitical situation on its head wouldn't it ?

More than that, after the comical McAdams episode, I sincerely hope our media does not pick up the "China" and "Virus" in the same sentence and end up telling China admitted about the COVID virus.

Jokes apart, I hope at least there is a temporary ceasefire agreed with both Ukraine and Russian foreign ministers meeting in Turkey today. Russian spokesperson yesterday told that they are not looking to topple the government. May be a positive signal to Mr. Z's public climbdown on NATO.

On the talks and war, I remember reading a joke about them too. It goes something like this -

One mad dictator has sent his diplomat to talks with just one instruction "Hold the line". When the talks progressed, diplomat will go and get instructions which is the same "Hold the line". Other parties got frustrated as this one is not yielding and talks failed. War has started. Now it is the turn of a general who again got only one instruction "Hold the line". War progressed and each time the only instruction came was the same. Now war ended with disastrous results.

Now this diplomat and General went to meet the dictator in prison and talked the war. Both of them were astonished when the dictator was furious on them and asked why they did not followed his instructions. So they replied we were holding your line on talks and war. He replied "I told you to hold the telephone line so that I can think and decide. Didn't you heard all of my subsequent instructions"?

[amit_snk]

https://youtu.be/kSNo2FPQDQw

Very important documentary on reason for Putin invading Ukraine and it's fallouts.

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Jokes apart, I hope at least there is a temporary ceasefire agreed with both Ukraine and Russian foreign ministers meeting in Turkey today. Russian spokesperson yesterday told that they are not looking to topple the government. May be a positive signal to Mr. Z's public climbdown on NATO.

Mr Z would be wise enough to realise that mending ties with Putin, will benefit his country more in the current situation even if it means he is remote controlled by Putin as against being played by the West and the only and biggest looser will being his citizen. Putin on the other hand would prefer not to gets his hands full by trying to take over the country and run it, which will be an impossible task.

Putin is going to use this war to showcase to the world that the East is rising and the West is sinking as the European countries are not on the same page with US on how things have unfolded and handling of the situation with the Ukraine invasion.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Agreed that it's a humanitarian crime but when Russia invaded Ukraine and occupied Crimea that was an act of war right? They can't really expect Ukraine to help them occupy their territory.

Absolutely it was an act of war. Which is why I am not giving carte blanche to Russia.

But you have to remember Crimean peninsula was a part of Russian SSR. It was gifted to Ukraine as a friendship measure. And when Euromaidan happened Russia saw Ukraine leaning West and its Black Sea fleet threatened and swiftly invaded. Plus the fact that gas reserves were found near Crimea which Ukraine was asking Western companies to explore.

No country can occupy a territory without some sort of support from the local population. Russia will find it out soon enough now. Crimea is an interesting case because there is a large Russian speaking population there and the fact that the area was Russian till 50 years back.

Ukraine by all accounts had been cutting off water supply to millions of people and they should have known that in the long run it is unsustainable. Just like this Russian invasion and occupation is unsustainable beyond DPR & LPR.

What Ukraine and Russia should have done 7 years ago is beyond the scope of this thread. The only thing that I was trying to say is that cutting off flow of water is a nuclear option, and really best avoided.

[SnS_12]

https://youtu.be/U9Pobc0Cyxg

What happens with Turkey in the coming months could give us an idea as to what Russia plans to do going forward. Turkey despite being a NATO member has close ties with Russia and Ukraine and currently Turkey and Russia are facing financial difficulties.

Turkey is already facing inflation which is over 50% and running a trade deficit and also spending billions in reducing the fall of the lira in the international market. They are already facing gas shortage which has led to industrial blackouts back in January and they need Russian gas to continue running.

Plus the war started in the end of February so the real inflation affect of this war will be visible when the March data is available for all countries and the inflation even before the war was on the rise, so this event will just fuel it further.

[dragracer567]

Not sure what is the justification in bombing a maternity ward apart from desperation due to the civilian resistance. With Russia unable to get anywhere close to Kyiy after 2 weeks of fighting, we will see the Russian Armed Forces using harsher tactics such as chemical weapons which can give them culpable deniability.

Officially, Russia claims to have lost just under 500 troops (this was back in March 3rd) while western sources point to around 6,000 losses (Ukrainians claim 12,000 losses which is hard to believe as well). These are huge numbers (even assuming we believe the Russian claims which I don’t, similar to Chinese claims on Galwan losses) but makes sense when we consider that the Russians have pretty much accepted the fact that they sent in conscripts to fight this war. For comparison, the Americans lost around 2000 troops over almost a decade of war in Iraq and just over 200 troops during the first Persian Gulf War.

PS just to avoid ‘what about’ replies, yes the Americans also bombed hospitals including one run by Doctors Without Borders in Afghanistan and they sent conscripts into Vietnam.

[Poitive]

Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland admits Ukraine has "biological research facilities"

71 second clip with an interesting bent of questioning

Link:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4

.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland admits Ukraine has "biological research facilities"

And these biological materials suddenly become bio-weapons if Russians take control.

Ah... I am sure everyone will buy this story. Why am I thinking about the movie The Bourne Legacy...