[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Zelenskyy suspends 11 opposition parties

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/90334898.cms

I didn't know one could do that in a real democracy. Joe Biden must learn from the democratic leader of Ukraine, and suspend just one party in USA, the republican party whose real leader is Trump. In one shot, USA will be in much better shape, at least domestically.

Better shape domestically? Doubtful - what would Trump do with his rag-tag, fascist, white-supremacist militia? Sit quietly dreaming his narcissistic dreams? I don't think so.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Poitive

The US will go to great lengths to 'save democracy' in far off lands, it seems.

Full article: CIA-trained Ukrainian paramilitaries may take central role if Russia invades

Date: January 14, 2022

Attachment 2286396

They have been there for quite sometime now. What comes out in the media is too little and very less. Troops from noth sides without any insignias have been operating in the region for almost 10 years or more now.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by navrddy

Role of multinational companies, during conflict will not stay neutral.

A few points come to mind:

1. What is neutral is difficult to define. It is much influenced by one's worldview. On this thread itself we can see different implied opinions of what might be neutral/right/appropriate. It is also much influenced by the society's beliefs, and also different between different sections.

A simple test would be to ask people of different political persuasions about their preferred neutral TV news channel.

2. I see little reason to believe that these companies would not have big influence over them to toe a certain line, or possibly even be deeply linked to certain powers that be. Social media and search companies. They have just the kind of information and influence which would be useful to certain quarters.

They just need to be 'neutral' to the extent needed to maintain credibility, which is needed to remain useful for the purpose.

3. De-globalisation would mean increased costs. Increased costs is an idea which is very difficult and often unviable to sell in a democracy; unless there is a visible and immediate threat.

[SnS_12]

From Aramco pulling out from investing in a Indian oil refining company last year to a Indian company now investing in Aramco..

This Ukraine conflict is stirring up the way businesses are conducted and this particular news is the last thing a Reliance shareholder would have liked to hear.

It would not come as a surprise that countries standing with Russia knew exactly what is coming as definitely Russia took these countries in confidence for them to support and stand with Russia till now despite all the global pressure and direct/indirect threats from US.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Zelenskyy suspends 11 opposition parties

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/90334898.cms

I didn't know one could do that in a real democracy. Joe Biden must learn from the democratic leader of Ukraine, and suspend just one party in USA, the republican party whose real leader is Trump. In one shot, USA will be in much better shape, at least domestically.

A missing piece of information here is that they were Pro Russian parties (the largest of them led by a man whose daughter godfather is Putin himself) and another who was identified by British intelligence services of being the Duma's favoured one to lead the Russian puppet government in Kyiv even before the invasion had started.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the move is legally valid since the country is currently under Martial law due to the invasion. If Russians and their supporters didn't want these parties suspended then I guess invading the country was an ill-thought out move.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Zelenskyy suspends 11 opposition parties

I didn't know one could do that in a real democracy. Joe Biden must learn from the democratic leader of Ukraine, and suspend just one party in USA, the republican party whose real leader is Trump. In one shot, USA will be in much better shape, at least domestically.

Originally Posted by JithinR

A missing piece of information here is that they were Pro Russian parties

Samurai - Joe can use the same reason too (Pro Russian) for Republic party under Trump. Makes life easier, isn't it?

Or may be he just has to look up American history on how Communist party membership was criminalized and outlawed in USA during 1950s.

Jokes apart, @ JithinR - I think you missed the operative part of Samurai's post which was real democracy.

[VK Dhanuka]

1. How many with opinion that Ukraine asked for it by choosing NATO would be comfortable with India razing down Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka etc if any one of our neighboring nations were to try for a China military base?

2. How many with opinion that Indian Govt should support Russian Govt just because its in self interest and in historical times of need Russia supported India, would have sound sleep when their otherwise devoted son/daughter mindlessly mows down couple of poor kids post drunken driving as they know mommy/daddy got money to protect?

3. I do not know if accepting defeat and living as Russian slaves right for Ukrainians or choosing to die fighting like many of our freedom fighters is right?

With above points my intention is to highlight that grey areas exist even where we think there are none.
I believe in Karma and like to think that good begets good and evil begets evil on the person whether its by action, inaction, political or diplomatic decision.

More often decisions are not straightforward and we might end up choosing wrong even if our intentions were never wrong.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by VK Dhanuka

1. How many with opinion that Ukraine asked for it by choosing NATO would be comfortable with India razing down Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka etc if any one of our neighboring nations were to try for a China military base?

You are maybe talking about String of Pearls+. Sadly, we will see that situation in the coming decade. Pentagon has multiple times released 'reports' stating the same.

One can be read here https://www.southasiamonitor.org/chi...entagon-report

The maritime SLOCs of China and their purported new Silk Route along with the CPEC dictates that the problem or may we call it dharam sankat arises for India in the future.

However, if good sense prevails timely in India and we are able to exert our soft power so much on our friendly neighbours that even if such bases are setup in those lands, we'd not face issues. But that is surely not going to happen given the current state of international affairs our country has gone through. The Indian Navy though is a major hurdle for such maneuvers by China.

Not only is China trying for military bases in our friendly countries, they are doing everything they can to sustain it. They have a huge soft power as well which they are making good use of in almost all friendly neighbours of India.

I'm not sure we are there yet or even in the coming decade that we can 'raze' through geographies but certainly the problem is going to arise in the future. As of now there's only diplomacy that can save us from such a scenario in the future.

Putin wasn't able to coerce Ukraine or Georgia or other problematic countries (problematic to Russian interests) to save Russia from taking military actions. I hope India doesn't have to meet a similar fate that Russia had to, but looks like we are going to one day and it will be a very very complex and huge situation. China is inching closer on to us from land, air and water, as a consequence of which trouble is bound to occur. The trick for India would be to make sure somehow that the situation doesn't occur.

As far as my understanding goes, everyone is just waiting for some internal problem to occur within China to relieve the world of having to tackle China. This seems to be a very long shot though.

[Poitive]

Very surprised to read that as per a poll published on the 20th of March:
93% of Ukrainians believe in victory over Russia.

Link to Kyiv Independent
Link to details in Russian
Link to Google translation of above link

One published on the 7th of March:
82% of Ukrainians believe in Ukraine's victory

Link to The Jerusalem Post

Could they know something we don't, or are the Ukrainians believing their own propaganda, or is this simply a compromised poll to keep the morale high?

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by VK Dhanuka

1. How many with opinion that Ukraine asked for it by choosing NATO would be comfortable with India razing down Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka etc if any one of our neighboring nations were to try for a China military base?



More often decisions are not straightforward and we might end up choosing wrong even if our intentions were never wrong.

1.) The majority of Indians will support any step India would take to protect its sovereignty. If that means razing any country down to do it, then so be it. Of course, a suitable reason will be manufactured to justify the step.

2.) This is useless rhetoric. Individual moralism has no place in geo-politics. The greater good always takes precedence.

3.) Living like Russian slaves? That's stretching the truth way past it's elastic limit.

Don't know what role karma has to do here? If anything, dharma is more relevant in this situation.

Originally Posted by Poitive

Very surprised to read that as per a poll published on the 20th of March:
93% of Ukrainians believe in victory over Russia.

[
Could they know something we don't, or are the Ukrainians believing their own propaganda, or is this simply a compromised poll to keep the morale high?

The Ukrainians' need to believe such delusions can be seen as a coping mechanism. How else can they survive seeing their country being bombed back to the stone age?

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Very surprised to read that as per a poll published on the 20th of March:
93% of Ukrainians believe in victory over Russia.

How do you even conduct a poll in war situation like this?

Or maybe they received a pop up when they connect to the Starlink internet service which would read “In the words of the world’s greatest leader Joe Biden Russia will not win this war in Ukraine, click Yes to continue”...

When the war began Zelensky said that he has been told that he is the top person on the Russian hit list to be killed followed by his family. But, still we see video’s of him moving around on the streets. Also the prime ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic went and met him in person and the world already knew about this visit through the media. Very Brave indeed...

What a big sham the west is playing in the name of Ukraine.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by JithinR

A missing piece of information here is that they were Pro Russian parties

Missing? How could it be missing when Russians are mentioned in the headline itself?

And how could anyone miss Trump's love for Putin? Trump called Putin a genius after the Ukrainian invasion. Also, remember Helsinki? (where Trump trusted Putin over his own spy agencies)

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Samurai - Joe can use the same reason too (Pro Russian) for Republic party under Trump. Makes life easier, isn't it?

Yes, that is what I meant. If political parties can be suspended for leaning towards Russia, then Trump's republican party is equally if not more culpable.

In fact, Putin wouldn't have invaded if Trump was in the white house. Jump to 0:50 directly to avoid intros.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RET6fG_uqP4

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Or may be he just has to look up American history on how Communist party membership was criminalized and outlawed in USA during 1950s.

Joe Biden doesn't have to look up McCarthyism, he probably lived it. I hear he is centuries old.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Jokes apart, @ JithinR - I think you missed the operative part of Samurai's post which was real democracy.

...and I think you missed most of the rest of my post which talked about how the country had been invaded and was under Martial law and that at least some of these partied were known to collude with the country doing the invasion.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Missing? How could it be missing when Russians are mentioned in the headline itself?

Oh I meant that it's not mentioned in your post. Multiple members have already mentioned in the thread that they don't read every article or watch every video posted on the thread. In which case it makes it helpful to include most of the context while posting an external link.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Very surprised to read that as per a poll published on the 20th of March:
93% of Ukrainians believe in victory over Russia.

Link to Kyiv Independent
Link to details in Russian
Link to Google translation of above link

One published on the 7th of March:
82% of Ukrainians believe in Ukraine's victory

Link to The Jerusalem Post

Could they know something we don't, or are the Ukrainians believing their own propaganda, or is this simply a compromised poll to keep the morale high?

Even at the best of times, polls struggle to get a representative sample. In a war zone, that is impossible. The poll is just propoganda and may be aimed more at western and US politicians to ensure that the guns/money keep coming in.

[lifeinpune]

Regarding the Ukraine opinion poll, it sounds like the Pakistani Media propaganda during the 1971 war. When the war ended, the average Pakistani was in disbelief.

I have been following this channel

https://youtu.be/pJn1P6WKCgw

Take a look at the comments from some of the former US Marines.

I keep wondering why the Russians simply didn’t take out Zelinsky and any potential successor in his camp? It would have been a lot cheaper. Looks like they really want to strip off Ukraine’s military capability to prevent it from being able to harm the Donbas region and pose any threats to Russia. Putin and Lavrov have also reiterated multiple times that they don’t want a change of government in Ukraine. Looks like they want Zelinsky to continue and for the agreements to be signed by Ukraine under his government. It remains to be seen whether he will agree or flee and continue as a ruler in exile. That would deny the Russians the legitimacy of any agreements they might obtain from a new regime.

John Mearsheimer is one of the contemporary experts in international relations. He had predicted the current crisis years ago. I have seen many of his talks and interviews. Here is a concise edited version of his views on the current crisis.

https://youtu.be/T6mw9U62ZJU

Also, take a look at

https://youtu.be/L6UzUMrEEXM

Looks like a Ghost town. Its hard to imagine how people are surviving in the cold without power, water and food

Wonder where will the money come from to rebuild all this. Russia definitely can’t fund this. Only China has the money to rebuild. But if it decides to step in, it will extract long term economic concessions. Through Central Asia, Ukraine could also become a land route for trade with Europe as an alternative to the Malacca Straits. CPEC isn’t really going well for them. For the Americans, that would be an unanticipated strategic setback.