[vivekiny2k]

just noticed accidental gun discharge by an RPF personnel on hockey player sandeep singh on the hockey thread and wondering, how did it happen.

Since it says pistol (although it could just be the reporter's term) it would normally require cocking for the first shot. If a revolver, it could possibly be double action, but that would take more force to trigger the shot.

Does anybody know what gun police force uses (RPF in this case) and if they are asked to keep it cocked?

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

I may sound like a pro IRA but if one is inclined to a bloodbath, he will find his choice of weapon, control laws or not.

No, man. There was a time many years ago when I thought it would have been cool to be able to own guns in India like in the US. Not anymore. We have people being killed for minor stuff like road-rage, few hundred rupees etc even in the absence of guns. With guns easily available, it would be mayhem. No thanks.

P.S.: I understand there are illicit firearms manufacturing units up north and thus many have access to these illegal arms. But thankfully down south, this is not prevalent.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

No, man. There was a time many years ago when I thought it would have been cool to be able to own guns in India like in the US. Not anymore. We have people being killed for minor stuff like road-rage, few hundred rupees etc even in the absence of guns. With guns easily available, it would be mayhem. No thanks.

+100. The only way I am going out on the roads if such a situation arises is if I can get hold of a fully loaded Humvee.

P.S.: I understand there are illicit firearms manufacturing units up north and thus many have access to these illegal arms. But thankfully down south, this is not prevalent.

Even these illegal units are too small to of any significance. In rural UP/Bihar its still a possibility but a large majority of the populations specially in the big cities does not have access to these. And lets hope it stays that way. Most of the road rage cases in Delhi are a result of these units only where rowdy goons from neighbouring states come into Delhi in there Scorpios and Boleros and pick up fights on the slightest opportunity.

[AVR]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

No, man. There was a time many years ago when I thought it would have been cool to be able to own guns in India like in the US. Not anymore. We have people being killed for minor stuff like road-rage, few hundred rupees etc even in the absence of guns. With guns easily available, it would be mayhem. No thanks.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

+100. The only way I am going out on the roads if such a situation arises is if I can get hold of a fully loaded Humvee.

Most of the road rage cases in Delhi are a result of these units only where rowdy goons from neighbouring states come into Delhi in there Scorpios and Boleros and pick up fights on the slightest opportunity.

Look at the counter-argument. People who are capable of picking up fights at the slightest opportunities on many occasions are also found in the possession of a gun. Wouldn't you want to have deterrent when you step out on the same streets as them?
Quite often, weapons work as much better deterrents than words/threats and don't actually need to be fired/shot for them to serve purpose. That is the point of having a weapon.

Cheers,
Adi

[supremeBaleno]

Nope. In Chennai, street-muscle is about a Scorpio with a party-flag and half-a-dozen goons inside. Ofcourse I can gun them, but what after that ? And if gun control is lax, then for my 1 gun, I would be looking down the barrel of their 6 guns.
And anyway, who was it that said, If we go eye for an eye, we would only end up as a world of blind people.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by AVR

Look at the counter-argument. People who are capable of picking up fights at the slightest opportunities on many occasions are also found in the possession of a gun. Wouldn't you want to have deterrent when you step out on the same streets as them?
Quite often, weapons work as much better deterrents than words/threats and don't actually need to be fired/shot for them to serve purpose. That is the point of having a weapon.

Cheers,
Adi

Not at all mate. I am really scared for even thinking of such a day. Life is not a video game. Even if I get a AK 47 in my hand I will never have the guts to fire it. I cannot say the same about the other person.

[AVR]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Not at all mate. I am really scared for even thinking of such a day. Life is not a video game. Even if I get a AK 47 in my hand I will never have the guts to fire it. I cannot say the same about the other person.

Exactly. Never talked about you firing buddy! That's why I mentioned that its a good deterrent at times. Anyways, opinions exist on both sides and that's that.

Cheers,
Adi

[Jeeper1941]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Weapons give the wielder a High. Anybody who has wielded any weapon (not necessarily firearm) must have felt this emotion. More dangerous the weapon, more High. In fact it gives the urge to use it on something or somebody. It takes extensive weapons training to get over that urge.

People who would otherwise step back might actually step up and pull the trigger. That is the real danger of firearms, it can be deadly in the hands of any untrained person who can't restrain the urge to use it.

Sorry, but that is just not true. You can't generalize this. I have fired a wide range of weapons - from a crossbow to an AK-47. I never felt a "high". I did not feel like shooting someone the moment I got my hands on a gun. Its not like the movies. And you don't need extensive firearms/weapons training. The first and the most basic rule is that - NEVER point your weapon at something you don't want to destroy. This was the first thing that I was taught by my father - I was 10 when I got my first rifle (a Ruger .22LR, which I still have 17 years later). I grew up with guns. In fact I used to sleep next to a loaded handgun in the bedroom when we were living on a farm here several years ago. I never ever felt the urge to take the gun and shoot something. Several of my friends also grew up with guns and we all have the same mentality.

So your statement that weapons give a high is just not true. Gun ownership takes a lot of responsibility. The vast majority of legal gun owners here (and even in the US) take this responsibility seriously. It is simply not like the movies/TV shows where people go around shooting each other every chance they get.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Not at all mate. I am really scared for even thinking of such a day. Life is not a video game. Even if I get a AK 47 in my hand I will never have the guts to fire it. I cannot say the same about the other person.

An AK-47 is so much fun. (To fire in a shooting range, not at a person that is!)

I have shot an AK-47 and the AR-15 (the civilian version of the M-16). We are not allowed to have automatic weapons here, but everything else is game. My dad has something like 50 rifles and 30 handguns, and I have 2 (registered in my name - a Ruger .22LR rifle and a Beretta 9mm pistol).

In fact lots of people in Oz have guns, but they are hardly ever in the news. The gun laws here work, and I for one am glad we are allowed to keep and use firearms here.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Jeeper1941

I have shot an AK-47 and the AR-15 (the civilian version of the M-16). We are not allowed to have automatic weapons here, but everything else is game. My dad has something like 50 rifles and 30 handguns, and I have 2 (registered in my name - a Ruger .22LR rifle and a Beretta 9mm pistol).

In fact lots of people in Oz have guns, but they are hardly ever in the news. The gun laws here work, and I for one am glad we are allowed to keep and use firearms here.

It might work there because the laws would be equally strict too. Our laws are a joke and exist only on paper. There is no fear in people for punishment. And hence a Gun/Arms Law in India is simply not feasible and too dangerous.

Infact why are we discussing this at all? Its never going to happen in India.

[shankar.balan]

I have grown up with guns and learned to use them - taught by people with a great deal of knowledge and a great sense of responsibility.

Lets remembers that with great power comes great responsibility.

I dont think the majority of us Indians as a race can handle that kind of responsibility OR power because in some sense, we are still primitive and seem to think that might is right.

I would not support an open gun ownership law here in India because of the huge number of avenues for it to be misused. Nothing that our government or bureaucracy or police services have done over the last 60 odd years gives me the confidence that they will implement such a policy in a responsibile manner.

All that it will do is to contribute to "legalized thuggery" on the part of the lawless and at the cost of the regular bloke and hence I wont support the same.

Whatever shooting I may want to do, I shall happily do with the help of a camera!

[AVR]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

It might work there because the laws would be equally strict too. Our laws are a joke and exist only on paper. There is no fear in people for punishment. And hence a Gun/Arms Law in India is simply not feasible and too dangerous.
Infact why are we discussing this at all? Its never going to happen in India.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I dont think the majority of us Indians as a race can handle that kind of responsibility OR power because in some sense, we are still primitive and seem to think that might is right.

People still drive and cause fatal accidents because of the same above reasons. A 4-wheeler in the hands of an untrained driver can be and as we see often is equally dangerous. Doesn't build up a case for prohibiting people from driving.

Mind you, I am not for free gun-availability in the first place but at the same time I don't think its fair to think that every person who owns/would own a gun would be on a hair-trigger always and don't expect the world to be a place where people go around shooting each other because they have guns! And if that's actually going to be the case, I wouldn't want to be the one who goes to a gun-fight with a knife! lol

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I have grown up with guns and learned to use them - taught by people with a great deal of knowledge and a great sense of responsibility.

Exactly. The way I learnt it and the way everyone I know who owns a gun thinks!

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by AVR

People still drive and cause fatal accidents because of the same above reasons. A 4-wheeler in the hands of an untrained driver can be and as we see often is equally dangerous. Doesn't build up a case for prohibiting people from driving.

But thats precisely my point. When we are unable to bring strict laws and ensure that people drive safe in a city like Delhi where the Police have got all he infrastructure they want including Vehicles, gadgets and what not. Still every second you will see a car zooming ahead, cutting across lines, jet black tints, one hand busy in typing an SMS and so on. Then I cannot even imagine how will they control the use of guns.

Mind you, I am not for free gun-availability in the first place but at the same time I don't think its fair to think that every person who owns/would own a gun would be on a hair-trigger always and don't expect the world to be a place where people go around shooting each other because they have guns! And if that's actually going to be the case, I wouldn't want to be the one who goes to a gun-fight with a knife! lol

People are jumping out and thrashing and killing other road users for reasons like not giving them the way to zoom ahead. Imagine more of such people being encouraged by giving them free access to guns.

And ofcourse no one is saying you fight them with a knife. But even if you own a gun you are bound to get shot sometime right .
Jokes apart thats why I am saying such laws cannot be implemented in our country.

Edit: Just last month I read about 2 different incidents in Bangalore where a Air Gun was used to decide a simple road rage issue. And Bangalore is one of the most sensible and polite cities of India ( I have lived there for 7 years).

[shankar.balan]

Too many loose cannons about in our sphere of things in current day India. Hence, too high a risk to bring in a gun ownership law.

In any case, our country has many other priorities which they should address rather than worry about guns etc as of this moment!

Originally Posted by AVR

I don't think its fair to think that every person who owns/would own a gun would be on a hair-trigger always and don't expect the world to be a place where people go around shooting each other because they have guns! And if that's actually going to be the case, I wouldn't want to be the one who goes to a gun-fight with a knife! lol

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Jeeper1941

Sorry, but that is just not true. You can't generalize this. I have fired a wide range of weapons - from a crossbow to an AK-47. I never felt a "high". I did not feel like shooting someone the moment I got my hands on a gun. Its not like the movies. And you don't need extensive firearms/weapons training. The first and the most basic rule is that - NEVER point your weapon at something you don't want to destroy. This was the first thing that I was taught by my father - I was 10 when I got my first rifle (a Ruger .22LR, which I still have 17 years later). I grew up with guns. In fact I used to sleep next to a loaded handgun in the bedroom when we were living on a farm here several years ago. I never ever felt the urge to take the gun and shoot something. Several of my friends also grew up with guns and we all have the same mentality.

So your statement that weapons give a high is just not true. Gun ownership takes a lot of responsibility. The vast majority of legal gun owners here (and even in the US) take this responsibility seriously. It is simply not like the movies/TV shows where people go around shooting each other every chance they get.

Um... do you realise you are actually agreeing with me? The feeling of high happens to an untrained person, hence a gun in their hand is dangerous. Read the words I have highlighted in my quoted post. People who grew up handling weapons, trained in using the weapons, would have overcome that urge a long time. You trained since childhood, so you don't get the high. You are however susceptible to withdrawal effect. If all weapon are taken away from you, you will feel naked and very unsafe.

[vintageman]

Request to the gurus on this thread :

information requested regarding :

- MODELL REMO K Germany 12 Bore SBBL

- Alex Henry .410 Bore DBBL ( Ladies Gun ??? )

Regards