[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Wouldn’t statistical errors work both ways? So India, or any other country, due to erro the score is higher or lower. (Or correct!)

Right. It can be 111 to 125. But I'd lean towards 110 because (see below):

As I understand it they have measured these other 6 indices as well as they have sufficient data from all these countries.

India ranks very well in 'donated', 'helped a stranger' and 'volunteered' sections. 'Wallet returned by' ranking too is not too shabby.



But overall rankings are similar to that of Cantrill Ladder metric, which is determined by one single question ->

Where do you think you stand right now, on a scale of 1 to 10?



Basically, other indices/metrics don't seem to have much weightage. I think they are just 'supporting questions' that will ensure that quality of answers for the above question is high. After all, a person answering the above survey question might select 3 or 4. Because the options mean the same thing (with a slight difference in intensity of pain & suffering).

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Basically, other indices/metrics don't seem to have much weightage. I think they are just 'supporting questions' that will ensure that quality of answers for the above question is high. After all, a person answering the above survey question might select 3 or 4. Because the options mean the same thing (with a slight difference in intensity of pain & suffering).

Not exactly sure what you mean by 'above question', but from what I've skimmed through earlier on such surveys, there's no direct 'How happy are you on a scale of...' type question. The Global Poll they mention asks a bunch of different questions, on specific topics which can be accessed here. This happiness ranking, as far as I know, is not some sort of mean/median/mode of individual responses to such direct question; rather their own ranking on this scale that seems popular, using this Global Polls' data and their own indices.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

Not exactly sure what you mean by 'above question'. This happiness ranking, as far as I know, is not some sort of mean/median/mode of individual responses to such direct question

- Download the full report (PDF file)
- Do a CTRL+F and search for the word "Cantril Ladder". You will notice that this word has been mentioned 22 times.
- Now do a Google search for 'Cantril Ladder happiness' to understand what it means



And finally, to clear up what the report is all about, see India's ranking for 'cantril ladder' (both row and column are marked in green):

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

- Download the full report (PDF file)
- Do a CTRL+F and search for the word "Cantril Ladder". You will notice that this word has been mentioned 22 times.
- Now do a Google search for 'Cantril Ladder happiness' to understand what it means

Attachment 2739830

And finally, to clear up what the report is all about, see India's ranking for 'cantril ladder' (both row and column are marked in green):

Attachment 2739831

I already tried reading the nature.com link you provided earlier. Sounded a bit too complicated for me though. I didn't say that this Cantril scale is not involved in this report; rather that it can't be put as 'Asking people how happy they are' directly.

I found this article which explains how this Global Poll uses the scale. Quoting from the same:

The Cantril Self-Anchoring Scale, developed by pioneering social researcher Dr. Hadley Cantril, consists of the following:

• Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from zero at the bottom to 10 at the top.
• The top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you.
• On which step of the ladder would you say you personally feel you stand at this time? (ladder-present)
• On which step do you think you will stand about five years from now? (ladder-future)

So, basically the image you shared earlier, except its not a single question. And,

For the Cantril Scale, Gallup utilized data from the Gallup World Poll and Gallup-Sharecare Well-Being Index daily U.S. poll to group responses together.

While at it, I did found something I was wrong about though. The report explicitly mentions using three-year-average of the Global Poll's 'Life Evaluation Index' data- the term they use to collectively refer to the combined scale points of Cantril and this Well-Being Index- as is, and not combining with any indices or variables. Quoting:

As already noted, our happiness rankings are not based on any index of these six factors. Rather, rankings are based on individuals’ assessments of their own lives, in particular their answers to the single-item Cantril Ladder life evaluation question.

They're referring to the explanations (coloured) as factors here. So, no 'weightage' at all as you mention in post #61.

The report is only about explanations of data in hand, and not about rankings.

[alisajid]

We have developed a tendency to debunk every report that shows us the areas of improvement, most of the world organizations surveys and rankings are getting questioned,this approach will negatively impact our goals and vision. If we are so veiled towards worlds understanding of our condition, then Iam afraid we will get into denial mode for all our national concerns. Its a dangerous precedent as it will keep us away from reality until truth prevails and perhaps it will be too late by then in some situations.

Allthough we have come a long way from where we were about 20 years back however there is a long way ahead before the development and progress reaches the bottom quartile.I think the report is near to reality as we are overworked, underpaid society with scant dignity of labour. Countries with higher population density are more unhappy than lesser dense countries, maybe because of lack of proper personal living space, over competition in getting employment, social issues etc...

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by alisajid

I think the report is near to reality as we are overworked, underpaid society with scant dignity of labour. Countries with higher population density are more unhappy than lesser dense countries, maybe because of lack of proper personal living space, over competition in getting employment, social issues etc...

When a survey claims that "State of Palestine" is happier than India, it feels closer to reality to you?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by alisajid

We have developed a tendency to debunk every report that shows us the areas of improvement, most of the world organizations surveys and rankings are getting questioned,this approach will negatively impact our goals and vision..

Well spotted. I see the same tendency. What is worse, those folks being critical rarely even bother to read the actual report. As with all data, you usually need to spend a bit of time figuring out how the report was put together and so on. What definition were used, e.g. how do they measure happiness.

There also seem those who take exception with anything that doesn’t align with their own thoughts and or experience. And subsequently question the whole report and motives behind the report. Some seem to believe these reports are written for the sole purpose of putting India or some aspects of India in a poor perspective. In another thread one member noticed the same and pointed out that most of the world is pretty indifferent to India at best. Which, just my opinion, is probably closer to the truth. For most people outside of India, India is hardly known. Despite its size and population. Nothing special about that. Most people have very limited understanding and or exposure outside their own country.

Originally Posted by alisajid

Countries with higher population density are more unhappy than lesser dense countries, maybe because of lack of proper personal living space, over competition in getting employment, social issues etc...

Not so sure about that. The Netherlands, one of the most densely populated countries sits at number 5th ranking. A couple of other high density population countries can be spotted in the top 20 as well.

I have seen some studies which suggest that folks living in highly densely populated towns, feel a little less happy than folks in that country who live in more rural areas. But there are a lot of exceptions as well. It’s not always true. It makes a huge difference if you are say an expat living in Amsterdam Zuid (posh area) or somebody living on welfare in Amsterdam Noord (the decrepit and former industrial area).

Given how this happiness score is measured (individuals being asked how happy you are on scale from 0-10) each country score has a huge individual and cultural component into it. Hell, I would not want to live in Finland if you paid me!

Context is everything. The items that might improve individual happiness score in India are likely to be different that those in say France. Because their starting position differs so much for one thing.

Even so, this sort of research can help understand happiness and the conditions for happiness in different situations better.

Jeroen

[rrsteer]

For any research related to the topic of happiness, I would read and listen to only Daniel Kahneman. I don't think he explicitly disapproved the World Happiness Report, but he was skeptical about the reliability of self-reported happiness measures, which the report heavily relies on.

He made a distinction between experienced well-being and reported well-being. He argued that people often misjudge their own happiness when reflecting on their lives, which can make survey-based happiness rankings unreliable.

But more than that, I would trust my own logic. Each country has its own culture and setting, and happiness is a subjective emotion. So, how can we just compare vastly different cultures on a subjective emotion? I will not waste my time on the report.

PS1: Anecdotally, have you not heard/read the cliche statement by foreigners that of all places, they see the brightest smiles and loudest laughters in India?

PS2: Last year we were in Switzerland - beautiful country, nice people, great environment and all that, but I hardly saw people laughing/joking. After a while, the scenery was monotonous, the wonder of the Swiss rail network expired and train journeys were BORING. In contrast train journeys in India are the opposite. I take a long distance train twice a week. More often than not the compartment is bursting with conversation, laughter etc. As an introvert it was an annoyance initially, but give me a choice now and I will opt for an Indian train journey. Painful yes, but I am more happy (In some way aligning with what Kahneman said.)

PS3: Not in any way wrote the above as an Indian who felt hurt. But I just find the thought of the research absurd.

[vishnurp99]

Imagine you are forcefully locked in a room for 4 months due to extreme cold weather. I am sure we will all feel extremely happy when summer breaks.

One of great joys of life in these Scandinavian countries is to cycle or just run with your significant other when the weather is good. There is no concept of luxury in the sense that we have in India or middle east where people stay in palatial houses & have armies of servants to clean & cook for them. The food is also pretty plain - single pot in many cases. Just fish/pork & potato & boiled vegetables.

I have been traveling to Sweden one to two times every month over the last few months and I have seen the moods wax & vane in correlation to the weather. Of late people are worried about bombings & shootings even in places like Stockholm.

Maybe this survey was just done during the fall or spring when the moods are good.

The definition of happiness is very different across these very cold places & a place like India.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by alisajid

We have developed a tendency to debunk every report that shows us the areas of improvement, most of the world organizations surveys and rankings are getting questioned,this approach will negatively impact our goals and vision.

Only a few on this thread are getting nationalistic about this survey or its results. Most are questioning the very premise of the factors of happiness, the sliver of human experience it claims to cover and the fact that, forget India, stable reasonably well run nations find themselves below war torn Congo, Gaza,etc. that is why in my post I took the solitary example of Kenya - there are several more. We are talking of relativity here.

I disagree that these are respected world organizations. First there is no sane or commercial need for such a survey, second I question the political motivation of those who sponsor such surveys or more correctly those who fund those who sponsor. If we think these are innocent goody two shoes organizations working for the greater good of the world we will simply disagree. These are just the sort of things Soros funds and loves to see it stir the pot. Any study that announces the "truth"should be viewed with suspicion as to the motives and who the real backers are. Follow the money.

Why do we never see such surveys from Japan or China or Singapore but only from the West. Who appointed Gallup etc to be the moral compass of the world. And why pray is there opinion valid. What moralistic credentials do they have. Being a Western name does not mean it is more credible. Gallu does do some good work and some reliable work but this is not their shining star. If you really need a happiness survey let the United Nations organize one with a committee formed of representatives for each continent. I'm sure you will disagree with my views but then that is the essence of a discussion.

If we are so veiled towards worlds understanding of our condition, then Iam afraid we will get into denial mode for all our national concerns. Its a dangerous precedent as it will keep us away from reality until truth prevails and perhaps it will be too late by then in some situations.

I agree with your view that we should be open to valid and constructive criticism and in this sphere we do tend to get too fragile. It is a function of maturing as a nation. The more confident we get the less prickly we are.

I think the report is near to reality as we are overworked, underpaid society with scant dignity of labour.

Apologies but that sounds like a hackneyed statement. In the same breath we should talk of the literally crores of people who have been lifted out of absolute and relative poverty in the last roughly 25 years. Over worked and Under paid - yes in parts for sure. Is it systemic - no. Sad reality of all large societies. How many in US live pay check to paycheck? Views may differ.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

There also seem those who take exception with anything that doesn’t align with their own thoughts and or experience. And subsequently question the whole report and motives behind the report. Some seem to believe these reports are written for the sole purpose of putting India or some aspects of India in a poor perspective.

To an extent this is true of most humans. We tend to reject views that do not align with our notions.

In another thread one member noticed the same and pointed out that most of the world is pretty indifferent to India at best. Which, just my opinion, is probably closer to the truth. For most people outside of India, India is hardly known. Despite its size and population.

True upto a point but not quite as strongly as you put it. This point was made by you earlier in some other thread.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Context is everything. The items that might improve individual happiness score in India are likely to be different that those in say France. Because their starting position differs so much for one thing.

Very well put. The heart of the matter as to why these two bit surveys should not be indulged in and then tem-tommed as the gospel. Each community describes happiness differently, describes friendship differently. These surveys, as I stated in my first post {#50}, cover an infinitesimally tiny sliver of human factors to have any validity at all.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

If you need a happiness survey let the United Nations organize one with a committee formed of representatives for each continent. .

As per the "about" section of the report:

The annual report is published by the University of Oxford’s Wellbeing Research Centre in partnership with Gallup, the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, and our Editorial Board.

The World Happiness Report, and much of the growing interest in happiness research, exists thanks to Bhutan. They sponsored Resolution 65/309 (Happiness: towards a holistic approach to development) adopted by the UN General Assembly on 19 July 2011, which invited national governments to “give more importance to happiness and well-being in determining how to achieve and measure social and economic development.”

On 2 April 2012, the first World Happiness Report was presented at Defining a New Economic Paradigm, a high-level meeting on wellbeing and happiness featuring heads of state, senior UN leaders, and world-leading social scientists.

On 28 June 2012, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 66/281, proclaiming 20 March as the International Day of Happiness to be observed annually. The World Happiness Report is released around 20 March each year as part of the celebrations.

The UN has been involved almost from day one and still is. The report was and is published on the SDNS site of the United Nations as well.

Jeroen

[BullettuPaandi]

It is always tricky. There usually is some 'selling' by the organisers to gather enough engagement from the public to collect data. But each and every metric is inevitably linked to multiple different studies, due to the very nature of academia. The end result- be it combined data or such explanatory reports- will certainly come with asterisks. The further you look into it, the more 'oversold' the 'Our Mission' statements seem. And this is to someone at least trying to be open-minded about it, and not like "I don't want to be told".

This is just how the game goes, in the realm which 'gathers knowledge faster than we gather wisdom'.

[ramnaresh_2000]

Wow what a report. A country which is regularly begging loans from IMF is ranked above a country which is world's 4th largest economy. I believe that country which is fighting over "Atta" (wheat) daily is happier that they are fighting over something? With triple inflation and cost of living is so high that they can't afford gas cylinders, they use large plastic bags to steal gas and cook are a happier nation.

One report suggested that they are a happier nation than India, another report suggests that they are No.2 in terror attacks? So, they are happy being attacked 58 times in a month? Looking at the economic status of that country, I think it is safe to say that beggars are happier than hard working middle class people (pun intended).

Look at the irony, another country which is at constant war with Isreal and was flattened recently in a war is above India in happiness index. Such reports belong in dust bin.

[Samurai]

In this eye-opening episode of Immortal India with Amish, bestselling author Amish Tripathi is in conversation with renowned economist and historian Sanjeev Sanyal to dissect how foreign statistics misrepresent India—and the flawed methodologies behind them.

https://youtu.be/w4cQlkRP9DU

[V.Narayan]

God Almighty it is raining Happiness Surveys now. As if one biased survey (subject of this thread) that put India at the bottom wasn't bad enough we now have a second survey to counter that which puts India on the top. Link below.

https://www.business-standard.com/in...1500452_1.html

Both surveys are hogwash in my opinion. You cannot measure subjective matters such as happiness, sexiness etc in a large population and pronounce a judgement of one group versus another. This survey is clearly to counter the last one. The last one was clearly part of a larger political left wing agenda of some motivated groups in the Anglo Saxon West who believe it is their duty to sit in pronouncement on others they don't like. This is similar in the other direction. Both start with the answer they desire. Sadly in both cases incompetent journalists and podcasters pick it up and start babbling as if these surveys reflect facts. In both you never know who the real author & ultimate funder of the survey is. This 2nd survey is by a French firm Ipsos who interviewed 24,000 across 30 countries a sample size as ridiculous as the previous Gallup survey.

I am now going to commission a survey that proves I am the sexiest man alive age and grey hairs be damned. That is how both these surveys are - they start with the answer.

Sadly too many in India will believe this survey. And too many in the West believe the earlier one.