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Old 20th May 2024, 15:41   #16
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Going back to my London days, I would rather have been inconvenienced by a protest.
I agree! On similar lines, I so completely object to having commuting routes getting shut down because of the cavalcades of politicos, and would happily accept the inconvenience of a genuine protest for causes like human rights, climate change, farm laws etc.
Similar to the on-going debates about WFH vs RTO, we need to collectively rethink all travel (leisure, commuting, work travel etc.)
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Old 20th May 2024, 15:44   #17
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

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Is it OK to shut down whole main routes for a marathon? Or other sporting/etc event?
That is a temporary restriction.

Like the streets of Monaco are shut for the F1 race and the streets of Singapore too.

None of that portents a permanent ban like the one sought in Munich.
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Old 20th May 2024, 15:50   #18
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

The police in Germany handled the just stop oil protestors like they should have and no one was inconvenienced. Looks like they don't operate on the airport premises, this is a serious security breach. In India they would rightly have a criminal record of they engaged in a stupid and dangerous publicity stunt like this.

These clowns /Just stop oil are funded by the Getty oil fortune heiress. CO2 consists of 0.4 percent of the atmosphere, in case you're wondering. The protestors are accelerating the destruction of Germany's industrial base, they'll learn when they get conscripted and sent to the meat grinder in the east. That conflict already threatens their energy, good and physical security, this is late stage empire vibes.
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Old 20th May 2024, 17:03   #19
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

Just bring a few planes closer to these folks glued to the runway. Once they feel the jet blast from a few dozen meters, they will forget their protest and scramble to safety. There is a limit to everything. These so called protesters must be asked to work the fields in a developing country. Then let us see how much energy they have left to do these useless activities and acts of vandalism. It is all fun and games when you are doing this on a full stomach.
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Old 20th May 2024, 17:45   #20
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

We have always wanted to get from Point A to B in the quickest ways possible. Commercial air planes are a convenient means of travel with regards to time taken for large distances.

If we are indeed fast forwarding the planet's doom by flying on airplanes, what then is the alternative?

Ships? I sure hope not!

Stop travelling? What are the chances of that?!

Just curious.
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Old 20th May 2024, 19:38   #21
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

Lot of opinions about the (perceived) effectiveness of these sort of protest.

There has been quite a bit of research on it. I found this article interesting and enlightening.

https://www.energymonitor.ai/net-zer...work/#?cf-view

The guardian (!?) ran an interesting article too

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...se-experts-say

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...change-protest

https://www.commondreams.org/news/di...ts-expert-poll

One of the problems is how to define “succes”. Most of these researcher would agree that if anything these sort of disruptive protest tend to get a lot of media attention. And that ultimately appears to be beneficial for the movements cause.

History shows that just about all major social, political and society related changes involved disruptive protest to a pretty large extend.

What we should also take into consideration that these protest tend to be part of a much larger set of other activities supporting the same cause.

And all along there were lots of people with similar thoughts as on this thread.

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Old 20th May 2024, 20:59   #22
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

Really appreciate the people who are on the ground sacrificing time for something they do not have any direct benefit.

Climate change is not just affecting rich Europeans, but also poor Africans and Indians.

These disruptions are nothing compared to airport disruptions due to floods(chennai) and smog(Delhi).

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
CO2 consists of 0.4 percent of the atmosphere, in case you're wondering.
You have no idea what happens to the world with 0.4 percent of CO2 in the atmosphere, so let's leave that stuff to the scientists, and listen to them.
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Old 20th May 2024, 21:26   #23
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

The good thing is that the activists will end up with unusable hands one they are removed from the runway, it doesn't look like they have factory floor jobs anyway. I'm glad we're expanding our coal grid to ensure we come out of poverty. Westerners can boil stones for soup, the Chinese are building one thermal plant a week this year, and not having allies blow up their gas pipelines.

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You have no idea what happens to the world with 0.4 percent of CO2 in the atmosphere, so let's leave that stuff to the scientists, and listen to them.
I stand corrected it's 0.04%, and it's been that way for nearly all of recorded history. You can listen to the scientists, that percentage has been pretty consistent.
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Old 21st May 2024, 08:45   #24
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

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I stand corrected it's 0.04%, and it's been that way for nearly all of recorded history. You can listen to the scientists, that percentage has been pretty consistent.
Correct. But when people talk in general about global warming, they mean to loosely convey a much wider umbrella of emissions like CO, SO2, NOx and other particulate matter, all of which are definitely valid and serious concerns. CO2 is just a red herring.

It's just that these protests against airlines/airports that cause massive disruptions, don't seem to gain any traction, and/or just dismissed by the public.
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Old 21st May 2024, 10:38   #25
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

The topic of climate change has been in vogue since many years now, the rock stars keep changing ( remember Greta T ? ) . I have heard countless discussions on the topic but I am yet to see a fool proof research that causally attributes effects we are seeing directly to human race’s current actions.

Most discussions on Climate Change go like this : the temperatures are rising, greenhouse gases are rising , some natural disasters are occurring -> it must be due to actions of humans. I have not seen a study where this is completely established. Like how many estimated tonnes of pollutants are we creating in a year, what is the specific impact ? Also as human race we are doing quite a lot to be more and more responsible vs a 100 years back.

When common people like me are able to identify with or be convinced by a cause with hard data, then folks don’t need to resort to throwing soup on paintings and glue themselves to a runway to land the message. I don’t think this topic needs any more media coverage or exposure. A huge majority of the world is already aware,
They are not convinced yet and when activists resort to extreme steps like these , it only waters down the narrative and make these so called stomach full activists look like losers who have time to waste and nothing constructive to offer.
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Old 21st May 2024, 10:52   #26
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

Do we also stop moving or use ships and roads ? Might encourage virtual/video conference solutions

While ships can use Hydrogen and batteries on road vehicles, there is no alternative to using oil on airplanes. Unless you can use hydrogen for that too

But seriously, we have moved past the line where we have made some permanent damage to environment already. We dont seem to have urgency in doing right things.
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Old 21st May 2024, 10:55   #27
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

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I don’t think this topic needs any more media coverage or exposure. A huge majority of the world is already aware,
They are not convinced yet and when activists resort to extreme steps like these...
Thanks for posting this. Not because I agree with your opinion (IMHO, there is more than enough research that links Climate Change with human activity), but because you have highlighted the problem.

Again, this is just my opinion, but the narrative needs to change - communication needs to shift from shrill and sensational to linking claims to evidence and in a way people can interpret in their daily lives. Right now there are too many climate celebs (several of whom flout the parameters of a sustainable lifestyle themselves), enough emotional supporters, but not enough informed supporters who are motivated to make the changes in their lifestyles and to push for the policy changes their government reps can make.

And the emotional messaging is now alienating the very majority that is essential for these changes to happen.
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Old 21st May 2024, 13:49   #28
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post

Their ire was directed on the government for subsidising the airline industry despite airplanes being the worst polluters.
If this was the primary cause of protest, then it is for all the right cause whether you belong to the any of the camps: sustainability warriors, climate change naysayer, fence sitters.

Subsidizing anything leads to change in the supply-demand equation and skews the incentives. If anything, then the carbon trading mechanism could be the better way to deal with airline pollution.


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Originally Posted by charanreddy View Post
The topic of climate change has been in vogue since many years now, the rock stars keep changing ( remember Greta T ? ) . I have heard countless discussions on the topic but I am yet to see a fool proof research that causally attributes effects we are seeing directly to human race’s current actions.

Most discussions on Climate Change go like this : the temperatures are rising, greenhouse gases are rising , some natural disasters are occurring -> it must be due to actions of humans. I have not seen a study where this is completely established. Like how many estimated tonnes of pollutants are we creating in a year, what is the specific impact ? Also as human race we are doing quite a lot to be more and more responsible vs a 100 years back.
Are you sure?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...rian-nonsense/
I think a better approach would be to acknowledge that climate change may happen, but human beings can buy themselves out of bad situation.

By the way, I can't see evolution happening in my lifetime, surely it must be a hoax ...?

Last edited by alpha1 : 21st May 2024 at 14:03.
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Old 21st May 2024, 14:10   #29
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

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... Again, this is just my opinion, but the narrative needs to change - communication needs to shift from shrill and sensational to linking claims to evidence and in a way people can interpret in their daily lives.
It's been going on for a long time. I guess that the rise of shrill and sensational is a response to the oil industry, along with many of us ordinary folk, has been getting away with it, ignoring it, avoiding it, etc etc.

Having said that, I cannot accept vandalism of art works, etc as valid. Two wrongs do not make a right.

In general, as an Old Guy, I am sad and disappointed to see the extent to which the world is increasingly authoritarian, increasingly repressive, and thinks that the young "should just get on with their studies/etc." Such a world will be a dead world.
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Old 21st May 2024, 20:04   #30
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Re: Climate activists want airplanes grounded | Protest at Munich Airport leads to flight cancellati

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
I stand corrected it's 0.04%, and it's been that way for nearly all of recorded history. You can listen to the scientists, that percentage has been pretty consistent.
No, increased from 0.028% to 0.042%, a 50% increase which is the cause of havoc.

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Originally Posted by charanreddy View Post
I have not seen a study where this is completely established.
Where do you usually search for these studies? Just wondering why you did not find one.

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