India now 3rd among world in GDP

Harbir · 30th November 2007, 19:38

you are very right. The truest saying about democracy is this:

"people get the democracy they deserve".

If they deserve better than what they have, they will collectively ensure they get it. The biggest need a democracy has education. If people are not educated, they don't understand the world and so they make their electoral choices based on ignorance.

India's democracy will progress in lock step with the economy. As the economy improves, so will the political understanding and sophistication of the voters, and the politicians will have to change with them.

If India's voters don't demand any better, if they don't get interested in their government, if they don't start acting like its their country, that the government, mantris, courts, police, bureaucrats are the paid employees of the public, if people don't start believing that their vote carries power, that they can have mastery over the government, instead of living as its whims and mercies, india will not progress.

PS. more than anything, for true change, the citizens of India have to start realizing what it means to be a citizen, what responsibilities you have as a citizen. They have to start realizing that activities that harm the country while profiting the self are wicked. that includes violating tax laws, doing kabza on other's property, encroaching public property, engaging in communal violence against other citizens.

The problem is that this realization has to come to all, even if slowly. Its the theory of rational actions. individuals involved if wrong activities do it because it is beneficial to them and they will get left behind if they are the only ones moralizing while everyone else remains wicked. In a jungle, every wolf must fight for his scrap of food. In a civilized society, everybody would feel assured of getting their due and the rewards of behaving in a civilized manner, and there are penalties for behaving as if you are in the jungle.

So, either everyone has to behave like they are in a jungle or everyone has to behave like they are civilized.

thats why I say "we" have big problems and "we" need to solve them. Individually, the average person on the street cannot change society. he has to do what society does or pushed aside.

nayakrnr · 30th November 2007, 21:04

we always blame it on system.. dont we???
but we forget who made this system. its our earlier generations, that includes our parents. But we never blame our parents!

WHY???

because we know, if our parents have PAID bribe, its for the welfare of the family.
because we know, if our parents have TAKEN bribe, its for the welfare of the family.

and we never question their moral. DO We??

and we follow the same moral,, don't we??

sorry if this is OT.

tsk1979 · 30th November 2007, 22:47

India needs to move from low level corruption to high level corruption like the west for things to improve for citizens

Samurai · 30th November 2007, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

India needs to move from low level corruption to high level corruption like the west for things to improve for citizens

Exactly, I don't know how many of you understand the truth of this statement.

I see two types of MLAs in my area. Shameless lowlifes and popular leaders. The difference between them is this. The first category rose to power through kissing up the party higher ups and muscle power. The second category by doing good social service, building goodwill over many years and lots of money.

They are also very different when it comes to corruption. The first category tries to score every time, even accept 5K, 10K bribes for small favours. They will never move a muscle without bribe. The second category however maintains a clean image, still does good work, but score only very big ones, like one or two major deals a year.

They have become corrupt because they have to show/deposit 25L election fund to their party to qualify for a party ticket.

An Tanveer said, we need the politicians of second kind. People who will do some good work despite being corrupt.

Harbir · 1st December 2007, 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Wow man

I am in awe of your posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elito11

@Harbir

excellent post BTW!

Elito

Thank you, gents! I neglected to aknowledge your appreciation, so sorry about that.

Thanks again!

30th November 2007, 19:38	#31
Harbir BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 920 Thanked: 1,025 Times View My Garage	you are very right. The truest saying about democracy is this: "people get the democracy they deserve". If they deserve better than what they have, they will collectively ensure they get it. The biggest need a democracy has education. If people are not educated, they don't understand the world and so they make their electoral choices based on ignorance. India's democracy will progress in lock step with the economy. As the economy improves, so will the political understanding and sophistication of the voters, and the politicians will have to change with them. If India's voters don't demand any better, if they don't get interested in their government, if they don't start acting like its their country, that the government, mantris, courts, police, bureaucrats are the paid employees of the public, if people don't start believing that their vote carries power, that they can have mastery over the government, instead of living as its whims and mercies, india will not progress. PS. more than anything, for true change, the citizens of India have to start realizing what it means to be a citizen, what responsibilities you have as a citizen. They have to start realizing that activities that harm the country while profiting the self are wicked. that includes violating tax laws, doing kabza on other's property, encroaching public property, engaging in communal violence against other citizens. The problem is that this realization has to come to all, even if slowly. Its the theory of rational actions. individuals involved if wrong activities do it because it is beneficial to them and they will get left behind if they are the only ones moralizing while everyone else remains wicked. In a jungle, every wolf must fight for his scrap of food. In a civilized society, everybody would feel assured of getting their due and the rewards of behaving in a civilized manner, and there are penalties for behaving as if you are in the jungle. So, either everyone has to behave like they are in a jungle or everyone has to behave like they are civilized. thats why I say "we" have big problems and "we" need to solve them. Individually, the average person on the street cannot change society. he has to do what society does or pushed aside. Last edited by tsk1979 : 30th November 2007 at 22:45.
	() Thanks

30th November 2007, 21:04	#32
nayakrnr BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 27 Thanked: 3 Times	we always blame it on system.. dont we??? but we forget who made this system. its our earlier generations, that includes our parents. But we never blame our parents! WHY??? because we know, if our parents have PAID bribe, its for the welfare of the family. because we know, if our parents have TAKEN bribe, its for the welfare of the family. and we never question their moral. DO We?? and we follow the same moral,, don't we?? sorry if this is OT.
	() Thanks

30th November 2007, 22:47	#33
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	India needs to move from low level corruption to high level corruption like the west for things to improve for citizens
	() Thanks