[MillionSwords]

hi ppl,

I'm staying in a rented house in Mumbai for the past 10 months, on a Leave and License agreement. My tenacy is coming to an end on Feb 15th.

I will get a transfer out of Mumbai to my native place by March 30th. I asked for an extension of 2 months with my house owner, but she refuses(fear of over staying and eviction probelms). I tried to convince her but she will not trust anyone.

Now I'm in a fix where it is not affordable to move all my house hold to a new house just for 2 months, with my family and then again wipe everything and move again after transfer.

I tried my best to make her understand that, I'm expecting a transfer, and we shall move out once the transfer is in place, and if it was only me and my wife we could stay in a hotel, but with household, it is not possible.

What is the LAW to extend the tenacy for a few months, with proper documentation? How much will it cost to document this agreement?

When I came to this house last year, the agreement cost was told to be Rs.5000 and I was asked to pay half of the agreement cost, and I bear the cost. Later I came to know agreement cost would only cost Rs.100 to 500/- and not more than that.

Can some one who knows about these stuff, shed some light, so it will be helpful for all the other people who read this thread?

thanks in advance,
MS

[GTO]

What is the LAW to extend the tenacy for a few months, with proper documentation? How much will it cost to document this agreement?

It really depends on how the lease document has been compiled, and if any clauses have been included for an extension. But if there are none, and the agreement says that it ends on the 15th of February (with no renewal clause in your favour), the LAW says you have to move out.

Two options for you:

1. Offer premium rent to your landlady for the additional 45 days. Most probably, it will take her about a month to find the new lessee anyways. Take the official transfer papers from work alongwith your wife to meet her. The ball is in her court and you must try your best at pursuading her into an extension. If you got your place through a broker, have him request her too.

2. If she still doesn't agree, send your household + materials (furniture, TV etc.) back to home town. Would be easier for you to manage by yourself.

[condor]

GTO : 2. ... send your household + materials (furniture, TV etc.) back to home town. Would be easier for you to manage by yourself.

@MillionSwords, Considering that your transfer still has not come through, this would be best option. Once you move your stuff out, it should not be difficult for you to manage some temp accomodation, like with colleagues who are sharing a flat.

P.s: Looking at the thread title, I thought you had a tenant who was refusing to vacate your premises.

[MillionSwords]

hey GTO and condor - thanks for the suggestions.

1. she is afraid to let us stay on the extended period without paper work.
2. all I need to know now is, how to document the agreement, so that she has a legal paper of extension for another 45 days.?
3. i do not know the procedure to do so, the stamp duty, the rent %ge, the commission, any bribes in the franking office - etc etc.,

just a clear picture of what is needed, and how much to pay for the stamp paper franking - that's what i wish to know now. Some one who has done this first-hand can give some ideas.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by GTO

1. Offer premium rent to your landlady for the additional 45 days. Most probably, it will take her about a month to find the new lessee anyways. Take the official transfer papers from work alongwith your wife to meet her. The ball is in her court and you must try your best at pursuading her into an extension. If you got your place through a broker, have him request her too.

GTO has said it. Tell her that the 45 day money is just extra cash - else anyways flat would've remained empty.

You will need an amendment agreement of rs200 stamp paper. (<1 year) - make sure it is there else you can be thrown out even despite having paid the additional rent.

As for the Rs 5000, the stamp duty calculations vary - have seen people in Mumbai pay Rs 6k, while I had paid Rs 200 in Ahmedabad. The logic being from here: Documents Which Do Not Require Registration - Documentation - Vatsala Dhananjay

Basically lease deed < 1 year need not be registered, so Rs 200 will suffice.

Else stamp duty of 5% on the average annual rent and 14.5% on the deposit. Which would explain your INR 5k amount.

[HappyWheels]

same first thought as condor, the title made me think that you wanted to kick someone out!

MS - You have stayed for 11months and still the land lady does not trust you enough. Maybe from next time you should also try to do some rapport building exercise with your land lord.

As already mentioned, the best chances are:
- show the documents and make her understand (hopefully) that you are indeed moving out
- offer an premium over the existing rent.

and what about the deposit - did you pay any, has that been returned?

[Surprise]

Even if there is an extension clause, in general, it will be on mutually agreeable basis.

What is the exit (notice period) clause in the agreement?

As everyone suggested only way out is to pay a premium rent and also make the owners understand the real cause.

[hrman]

Another option is to enter into a fresh agreement with her for 11 months and terminate it in two months. Although that would be costly. At least you have a legal right to stay there and she can expect you to vacate once you serve the termination notice to her

The difference in the Rs.200 and Rs.5000 is in the registration. In Mumbai, its always safer to get the agreement registered with the Sub-registrar's office, by paying requisite stamp duty. Both the interests are protected in the court of law..
If its plain stamp paper agreement (non- registered), it doesnt stand much in court in case it goes into dispute. And the agreement cost is always 50-50 between landlord and tenant.

[MillionSwords]

same first thought as condor, the title made me think that you wanted to kick someone out!

- yeah sorry, I think the mods have changed the title - thanks mods.

MS - You have stayed for 11months and still the land lady does not trust you enough. Maybe from next time you should also try to do some rapport building exercise with your land lord.

- actually the relationship is really good. She acted to be a sweet person, she helped us out in many things, like sharing her gas cylinder, getting me some attestations for some documents, attending plumbing work as when I asked for, etc etc. She has never been a botheration at all.

- in the past 2 months, things went against me, when the building secty, was against me to park the car in certain place, tying a temporary plastic sheet to protect something falling on the car etc etc.

- and again some catholic lady does not like us(me and my wife) being friends with others in the building, and there is a cute little baby in one flat who is a muslim baby, so others have a probelm with that, and all the stinking cast/relegion politics!! [ Me and my wife certainly do not have a probelm with any one, and are very peaceful couple, who do not interfere with anyone or any activity, just go to office and come back after 8 and sleep], despite being no-nonsense people we have all the **** on us!!

As already mentioned, the best chances are:
- show the documents and make her understand (hopefully) that you are indeed moving out
- offer an premium over the existing rent.

and what about the deposit - did you pay any, has that been returned?

- I have paid a deposit, which will be returned when i hand over the keys. Thats what the agreement states atleast!

[Zappo]

MS I would say the best option is to not go in for a subterfuge. Ask her why she is so worked up over letting you people stay a couple of months. If she says that it is just because she won't have anyone staying without a valid agreement tell her that you are willing to get one done in that case. Also tell her that you will vacate after a couple of months even then and that you are doing this so that she is happy. In fact if she is willing I think even a 6 months agreement is a possibility in Mumbai (I know of a few cases in Thane at least).

That should give her some peace of mind. At max you may have to bear the burden of the agreement cost. But then moving out just for 2 months will work out even costlier.

[cypher]

MS, the reason she is worried about extending the lease, is that there is some provision in the Rent act, which protects a tenant if they have stayed in an apt for 12 months. AFAIK, that is why all rent agreements are for 11-months. I don't know the exact clause, but once a person stays for 12 months, it becomes very difficult to move them out (if the tenant chooses not to move.)

Even if your landlord and you have a good relation, most flat owners are extra cautious as they are terrified of loosing their apts (which easily happen, if a tenant goes to court - basically, the tenant stays put @ fixed rent till the case is solved).

She may consider if you sign a fresh agreement (and not an extension to the existing one).

EDIT: Another option is to get a new lease registered in a friend's name with the understanding that you are staying in the apt and will pay the rent. That way, the rent agreement shows that a new tenant is staying and your landlord's concerns would be addressed.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

MS - You have stayed for 11months and still the land lady does not trust you enough. Maybe from next time you should also try to do some rapport building exercise with your land lord.

Not really, happywheels. My tenants can buy me all the black labels they want, but when it comes to business....it is by the rule book. If the agreement ends on the 15th, I need the keys on the 16th morning.

Originally Posted by cypher

AFAIK, that is why all rent agreements are for 11-months. I don't know the exact clause, but once a person stays for 12 months, it becomes very difficult to move them out (if the tenant chooses not to move.)

Most business center / lease agreements are drafted for a period of 22 / 33 months. Never had a problem out here.

[NetfreakBombay]

I was living in rented apartment till a year ago. Agreement was drafted for 3 months.

Technically, you do not "rent" the place. You mention in agreement that you "already" have a different place to stay and do not need (and will not acquire) tenancy rights.

[madan80]

wow- and i thought the lease deeds were just pieces of paper... maybe thats why my dad kept the flat in bombay locked for 13years!
anyways - MS - if its just a matter of 45 days, i would suggest you check with the packers and mvoers, they offer "storage" facilities. Also, once the baggage is taken care of - move into a service apartment. That should make life easier.

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by GTO

Not really, happywheels. My tenants can buy me all the black labels they want, but when it comes to business....it is by the rule book. If the agreement ends on the 15th, I need the keys on the 16th morning...

business is business; no middle path there.

My thoughts were on trying to persuade the land lady with a fresh agreement. (Not just 'u trust me i trust u'). Things to be in pen and paper. This agreement need not be for a year. There is no rule that says anything about the length of a tenancy contract, so why not make one out for 3 or 6 months. I am sure that it will work out to be a lot cheaper and lesser of an hassel!

All the best MS!