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Old 11th December 2020, 00:39   #406
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There is another end to the IT spectrum. I am not an IT guy, but I know of a company in our group. Their only captive clients were our own various group companies. Who couldn't choose anyone else even if they wanted to. This company had absolutely no other clients.

Forget tier two or three towns. This company will scout for people from places like tier four or five. Those boys/girls will not be very savvy, and for the colleges where they studied, there won't be any placement prospects. This company will choose a few from those towns/colleges. They will have to work free for six months. At the end of the period they will be offered a regular position or sent out. Needless to say, the salary won't be anywhere near comparable to regular IT companies.

Some used to be sent out. Some remained for years with the company. A few gained experience, updated themselves and later went to Infosys / Wipro or even abroad. I have seen all three kinds over a period of many years. I was in Finance/Accounts and had to interact with them on a day to day basis.

Last edited by vb-san : 11th December 2020 at 09:32. Reason: Correction as requested
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Old 11th December 2020, 01:44   #407
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I think I didn't put it across properly. When I said that, I included myself there . (ie. I consider myself overpaid too). It was a general observation in the industry.
A couple of my friends who are into startup have been having a tough time hiring talent because of the high expectations. Of course, we could argue supply demand etc. But my main point was in isolation. If one compares to something else, there will never be any answers.
No offence taken.

@Samurai,
RSU's although wont affect the cash flow, will have to be expensed. So it will affect the accounting profit. Also the increase in number of shares will affect the eps.

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I assume you work in a corporate body, and have a white collar job. Do you think you deserve to make 10x what a rickshaw puller in Kolkata does? He pulls people in his rickshaw, sometime totalling over 200 kilos, for miles every day. There is no chance of a raise or promotion. If he's ill, his family might go hungry.

Perspective is a wonderful thing. And the disparity is already huge. Compare yourself to the rickshaw puller. Or to Mukesh Ambani.

No offence meant, by the way.

Last edited by adithya.kp : 11th December 2020 at 01:49.
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Old 11th December 2020, 15:46   #408
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Originally Posted by adithya.kp View Post
No. Not about reasons. But general views on this high salary. I am not complaining. But I dont think people deserve this kind of salary for the kind of work they do.
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Compare yourself to the rickshaw puller. Or to Mukesh Ambani.
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Why do you think its wild. If you look at the average productivity rise, the salary has not really kept in step. Look at productivity per employee
One doesn't have to compare oneself with Ambani or a rickshaw puller. Just compare yourself with your counterparts abroad. A guy in the US, for example, with the same experience, same job profile, same productivity and same impact to the company would be earning many times the salary of his colleague in India. So, how do you say the folks in India are paid more than they deserve?

And if you know how much the companies bill the resources for, then you will feel the typical IT employee is significantly underpaid. Once the business team wrongly sent across the billing contract instead of the technical spec to us. For a 5 member, 2 week implementation, the client was paying the annual salary of all of the 5 people and then some more. We even joked to our manager that we are not going to work for the rest of the year

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In India I controlled an organisation of about 23000 people. Today, I have not a single direct report? Do you think that should make a difference in my salary? No, it is about what results I bring to the company.
Quoting from the other thread since I felt it is relevant here. Don't know how it works for people at the top management, but at lower levels, the location plays a significant role in the salary. People getting transferred to developed nations do get a high salary owing to the cost of living and it falls back to the Indian levels when they move back.
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Old 11th December 2020, 16:17   #409
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Quoting from the other thread since I felt it is relevant here. Don't know how it works for people at the top management, but at lower levels, the location plays a significant role in the salary. People getting transferred to developed nations do get a high salary owing to the cost of living and it falls back to the Indian levels when they move back.
Yes, it is common practice to adjust salaries to which country ones lives in.

But even within one country there could be adjustments. My nephew works for a large construction company in the UK. They have a GLC adjustment. So if youíre being transferred to anywhere within the area of Greater London Circle, part of your package gets adjusted.


Having moved around just about all my working life, I have seen and heard of many different system in place amongst different companies. Some are great, some are very poor.

Large, international companies that move people around internationally tend to have elaborate system in place to ensure their staff when moving around get properly compensated. Adjusting salaries for location has nothing to do with salary increase and or promotion. The idea of course is neither the employer or employee is better/worse off due to having/being asked to move to a different location.

In our company we have a system whereby the basic idea is to set your salary for your position abroad, on the basis of what a similar position would pay in your home country. Then it gets adjusted for whatever is applicable for the country you are heading out for.

I have been back in my home country for the last 3,5 years, having spend a very long time abroad. My company also ensured that important things like my company pension and state pension for my wife and me, were kept in order during my stay abroad.

There is also a difference in how companies deal with sending staff abroad. At it usually reflects in the package you would get too. Although it has changed quite a bit, Shell International used to have excellent expat packages. But if you joined them it was understood you would spend most of your career moving from one country to the next. And you would have no say in where they would send you. But they paid very well, and they went out of their way to accommodate the whole family coming along. They would pay for everything. If you had a child needing special education and or care, Shell would pick up the tap. Only towards the end of your career could you have some influence on your preference on where to go next.

So your whole career was tightly controlled by Shell, but the compensation and other parts of these packages were excellent!

Our expat assignments are always on a voluntarily basis. By and large, it is seen as an important part of your personal development, working in different parts of the world. But there are no guarantees on what your next job would be. Or whether there is a next job, after your assignment comes to an end.

My personal belief has always been that for an International organisation such as ours, it is really important for people to move internationally. I am ok with it being voluntarily, but I do believe that certain positions can only be held if you have build sufficient experience working around the globe.

Jeroen
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Old 11th December 2020, 16:30   #410
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The income that one NEEDS is different from what one WANTS and what one DESERVES is an entirely different thing altogether.

Compared to the average income levels of almost all other occupational classes in India, Software industry pays too high, IT industry is probably better than most and investment banking is higher than even Software.

Of course, my claim - ...Software industry pays too high... - is for the Indian context; can be refuted when compared with American/foreign salaries, but we aren't living there, are we?

It can also be argued that all other sectors aren't paying well, and so Software salaries look too high; and that wouldn't be entirely irrefutable. There are many sectors that pay really bad, not enough to afford a decent life such as a proper 3 bhk apartment, a sedan, savings for a comfortable retirement etc.

Coming back to what salary one DESERVES - my view is, it is a play of multiple factors that leads some people to land those awesome salaries or jobs in awesome firms/sectors that pay really well. Some are pure lucky, some extremely hardworking, some very intelligent; difficult to say someone is undeserving or deserving. As with most things in life - Move On.

I'll add this, though - if one is hardworking and has the "zidd" (can't find exact translation in english); one can land these jobs themselves - I have seen quite a few people in their mid-40s in senior levels in IT services firms, when most of us would happily enjoy the job perks, 50 people teams, business class travel and literally no hands-on work. But these few, did study and prepare and land jobs in Amazon at much junior levels (say PM or Sr. PM); but with 2x-3x the salaries.

cheers
lazy

Last edited by lazy : 11th December 2020 at 16:32.
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Old 19th August 2021, 09:02   #411
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Folks,

Any take on this -

https://www.timesnownews.com/busines...or-mncs/799534
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Old 19th August 2021, 09:11   #412
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Originally Posted by jetsetgo08 View Post
The Indian IT industry had become more expensive (salary-wise) when compared to Spain, as of 2015. A lot of outsourcing has gone to Spain instead of India, as an offshore destination.

And yes, Indian IT offshoring is costlier than Vietnam and a number of other destinations as well. What's helping us is the existing year on year contract Renewals - but that is in itself self-defeating as most Renewals have a % revenue haircut for Indian IT vendors and that's another story.

What Indian IT has going for it is the ample headstart we've had, accrued experience of the various industries etc. over multiple decades.

Last edited by locusjag : 19th August 2021 at 09:12.
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Old 19th August 2021, 09:11   #413
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Ever since the second wave of pandemic hit, a 60 percent hike is the norm for the IT industry. For someone at the right place at the right time, the salaries in that link are realistic in the current scenario.

This salary growth is driven by product companies using their investor money. The consulting companies are suffering because of this. The salaries directly affect their profitability and most of them are struggling to retain talent because of this.
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Old 19th August 2021, 09:19   #414
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Yes this is the current norm and I have seen people getting offers with unbelievable hikes. Product companies are using their savings from the operating costs for acquiring the talents with such hikes. And everyone knows this is not sustainable and itís going to hit them with salary parity between its current employees and the new hire.
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Old 19th August 2021, 09:28   #415
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A friend in a startup was saying that they have been losing people who have been leaving with 50-70% hikes. The TOI article talks of other locations being cheaper, but I know for a fact that attrition is high in Eastern Europe, the job market is pretty hot there.

The current situation reminds me of Y2K. An IT bubble waiting to burst ?

Last edited by sdp1975 : 19th August 2021 at 09:33.
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Old 19th August 2021, 09:51   #416
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Just to quote an example from my wife's sister case. She is into mobile application development work and her current CTC is around 9L. She got her first offer at 16.5L. Then second offer at 21L, third offer at 23L. After the final negotiations, she is joining this 3rd company at 23L plus 2L joining bonus.
Agree that her current salary may be less, but she has been getting unbelievable offers since she got that 16.5L offer.
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Old 19th August 2021, 10:34   #417
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This situation is really unsustainable. While this is an unexpected windfall for employees in the short term, it is making employers like me find ways to survive this new reality.

None of the existing contracts are profitable due to this sudden raise in cost. Companies are bleeding to pay this unexpected cost. Retention has become a huge challenge to IT companies. Some of the partnerships we were building have come to naught because the partners are saying they can't assign resources for building future products/services. In fact, they are struggling to service existing contracts, as they are losing people fast. Those with investor money are spending them desperately to survive this phase, while coming up with ideas to manage this in long term.

Reality: Just because the company has to pay 50%-80% more salary, the customers are not going to pay proportionally more. Remember demand curve? The order size will start shrinking if the price goes up. If the market has only luxury cars, only a few can afford cars. So you will need less car dealers, less auto mechanics, less drivers, etc.

That means companies have to learn managing with less employees, who are paid very high. Those employees have to work more and deliver more since the employers will reduce their work force to deal with increasing cost and decreasing demand. Companies are always trying to maximize profits, don't assume they will just learn to live with less profits. The employees will feel the burn eventually.

As the profits shrink, there will be less entrepreneurs and less startups too. An equilibrium will be reached in couple years, but it will not be a good one for both employers and employees.
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Old 19th August 2021, 11:01   #418
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There is a real demand around for 5 to 10 year experienced professionals having JAVA development skills. A few of my erstwhile team members who used to report to me at my previous employer, have now landed offers with a >100% salary increase, and now are earning significantly more than what I am earning! Each one of them had more than 3 offers in hand when they were in the market looking for offers.
Folks sure are making hay while the sun shines!
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Old 19th August 2021, 11:04   #419
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This situation is really unsustainable. While this is an unexpected windfall for employees in the short term, it is making employers like me find ways to survive this new reality.
CEO pay went up 940% since 1978. And everybody did just fine and sustained just fine. Sure, some companies may not survive, but others will.

If pay was having such a big impact on the company bottom lines, how are the companies making record profit quarter after quarter?
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Old 19th August 2021, 11:04   #420
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This is probably where employers can become a bit more flexible and offer other benefits to retain or attract talent. Start looking beyond Bangalore and other cities to smaller towns where talent might reside and where employees don't feel "entitled" to these sort of salaries.

Speaking for myself, I've just taken a 25% pay cut to move to a role that allows me to work remotely. Admittedly, I'm at a different stage in my career and much past the "hot" career stage where I would have several offers to choose from. But I think there is a growing demographic that will value things like flexibility over a salary hike. Especially after having seen the benefits of working from home for the past year and a half.

Last edited by am1m : 19th August 2021 at 11:14.
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