Team-BHP > Shifting gears


Reply
  Search this Thread
637,516 views
Old 6th May 2024, 10:39   #3736
Senior - BHPian
 
padmrajravi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kozhikode
Posts: 1,244
Thanked: 5,607 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
The last RCB game vs GT, the one that RCB won the most convincingly despite the collapse, was the first match where Kohli batted at a strike rate > required rate.

By batting below the required rate, Kohli has been accumulating runs to get his orange cap while making it more difficult for his RCB teammates to win anything. I hope he supports his teammates and not make things difficult for them and also doesn't end up making the same mistake at the world cup.

True that. All his runs and that orange cap are not helping the team because he is just consuming more deliveries denying his teammates the opportunity to do anything. He thinks he is doing the job, but in reality, he is not. The only way RCB will improve is if the orange cap somehow factors in the strike rate. May be it should consider only the individual scores where batsman's strike rate is more than a predefined value. Other wise, year over year, Kohli will accumulate runs, thinking he is doing everything he can, but the team is not doing anything and RCB will keep losing. If a top order batsman is staying in crease, scoring less than 10 runs per hour, it is just to the advantage of the opposition this year. I fear the same will happen to India in T20 work cup too.

Last edited by padmrajravi : 6th May 2024 at 10:44.
padmrajravi is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 6th May 2024, 12:13   #3737
Senior - BHPian
 
antz.bin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,009
Thanked: 4,107 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Re: The IPL Thread

Let's petition for this New Orange cap formula:

Runs added to Orange Cap total = Runs scored * (strike rate / run rate of winning score)

If you score slower than required rate, the total runs counted are reduced by the amount you are slower. If you score faster than required rate, the total runs counted increase proportionately.

There is something that ESPNCricinfo has called as Batting Impact and Impact Runs but its formula is unknown. But the above formula is simple and easy to implement and comprehend.

In the Batting Impact rankings, VK is at #5
In the Batting Impact/Innings metric, VK is at #8,
Ruturaj Gaikwad (#2 in the Orange cap list, 1 run behind) is 15% more impactful per innings as compared to Kohli.
antz.bin is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 6th May 2024, 12:41   #3738
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 673
Thanked: 1,492 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

When the team is losing wickets, you have to bat cautiously. But even then I agree that by scoring below required rate you are not going to win Unless you run out of partners and hence had a lower scoring rate, nothing can excuse such low scoring.

I think the RCB team management cannot tell Kohli what to do. Its kind of being an Emperor. Not sure they tell anythng to anyone in the team going by how they play All teams have their owners watching the games. Who are the owners of RCB ?
PreludeSH is offline  
Old 6th May 2024, 13:07   #3739
BHPian
 
Bhargav7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 112
Thanked: 677 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeSH View Post
I think the RCB team management cannot tell Kohli what to do. Its kind of being an Emperor.
No one is allowed to question the King. Be it the fans, the commentators, or ex-cricketers. We pay crazy amounts of money for match tickets - but since we never really played professional cricket, we cannot question the players. I mean, what logic is that!!!

Also, a shout out to BCCI for selecting team based on fame and not on merit. Thought something would change with Agarkar, but so far been disappointing.
Bhargav7 is offline  
Old 6th May 2024, 15:44   #3740
PPS
Senior - BHPian
 
PPS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,490
Thanked: 3,764 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeSH View Post
When the team is losing wickets, you have to bat cautiously.
That may work in a 50 over game but not in a T20! If you become cautious in a T20 you've pretty much lost the match there & then! The template is such that even 180 is no longer a par score this IPL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhargav7 View Post
No one is allowed to question the King.I mean, what logic is that!!!
Virat questioning 'people in the commentary box' was needless, clearly means that his strike rate against spin is bothering him! Which is true if you see his stats over the years. Commentators have every right to air their views. Gavaskar the other day was taking on Star Sports while being live on Star Sports.
PPS is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 7th May 2024, 08:18   #3741
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Kochi
Posts: 99
Thanked: 319 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPS View Post
That may work in a 50 over game but not in a T20! If you become cautious in a T20 you've pretty much lost the match there & then!
Tilak did exactly this on yesterday. But it was SKY on the other end

With World Cup around the corner, itís great to see both SKY and Hardik have some good matches
rx100 is offline  
Old 10th May 2024, 08:09   #3742
Senior - BHPian
 
antz.bin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,009
Thanked: 4,107 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeSH View Post
I think the RCB team management cannot tell Kohli what to do. Its kind of being an Emperor. Not sure they tell anythng to anyone in the team going by how they play All teams have their owners watching the games. Who are the owners of RCB ?
It seems that all this social media backlash against Virat has worked.

Another *at par with winning score run rate* innings from VK, another comfortable win for RCB.

He mentioned the word "Strike rate" in his innings break interview. So the concern showed by SunnyG and the rest of us has finally found its way to VK's batting and his thoughts.

Both RCB and Team India should thank SunnyG for taking this up despite knowing what the trolls would do to him.
antz.bin is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 12th May 2024, 09:44   #3743
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: KA-21
Posts: 597
Thanked: 3,313 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
It seems that all this social media backlash against Virat has worked.
Both RCB and Team India should thank SunnyG for taking this up despite knowing what the trolls would do to him.
I know you are joking, but then, I would like Kohli's critics to troll him for not scoring enough centuries.

-------------------------------------------

I find ABD's comments on Pandya quite intriguing. Delving on it, I think his assessment is spot on.
Quote:
"The captaincy style of Hardik Pandya is quite bravado. It's ego-driven in a way, chest out. I don't think how he walks on the field is always genuine, but he has decided that is his way of captaincy. Almost like MS (Mahendra Singh Dhoni). Cool, calm, collective, always got your chest out," de Villiers said on his YouTube channel.

"But when you play with a lot of experienced players, guys who have been around for ages... They don't buy into that. It worked at GT (Gujarat Titans), where it was a younger team. Sometimes, inexperienced players love to follow that kind of leadership."
Source

Last edited by Emvi : 12th May 2024 at 09:46.
Emvi is offline  
Old 12th May 2024, 10:10   #3744
Senior - BHPian
 
harry10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 2,725
Thanked: 3,791 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
It seems that all this social media backlash against Virat has worked.

Another *at par with winning score run rate* innings from VK, another comfortable win for RCB.

He mentioned the word "Strike rate" in his innings break interview. So the concern showed by SunnyG and the rest of us has finally found its way to VK's batting and his thoughts.

Both RCB and Team India should thank SunnyG for taking this up despite knowing what the trolls would do to him.
It's funny Kohli is always the punching bag of everyone including Sunny G but when it comes to Rohit Sharma there isn't a single word. Even when our so called illustrious T20 World cup Captain makes a 24 balls 19 runs in a chase comprising of 16 overs resulting in a loss. Whoever talks about Kohli should just look at his World cup stats and even IPL stats and compare that with PR driven Rohit Sharma. That would be some awakening.

Also the overhyped and under delivered Mr. Pandya made as VC returned a 3 over 32 runs with no wickets. With bat 4 balls 2 runs. On what basis these 2 are selected is beyond me. It's a shame that youngsters like Rinku have to sit out cos of Rohit Sharma and money minded BCCI. Let the hero worshipping continue in this country and Australia or England run away with trophies.

Edit - to add more context.
IPL 2024 stats-

Kohli - ( orange cap holder)
Runs -634
Avg- 70
SR- 153

Rohit- ( At number - 19 in most runs batting list)
Runs- 349
Avg- 29
SR- 145

And still so many people and Commentators had the audacity of debating whether Kohli should be in World cup team or not and Rohit gets a free pass as usual.
Attached Thumbnails
The IPL Thread-img_2251.png  

The IPL Thread-img_2250.png  


Last edited by harry10 : 12th May 2024 at 10:18.
harry10 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 12th May 2024, 11:18   #3745
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 981
Thanked: 2,502 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Mumbai Indians is an example of why a healthy team culture is required for any team to perform. MI is not CSK to be last in one season and come back in the next to be the winners. Better they release all except Bhumrah, SKY and Tilak Verma and build a newer team for a long run.

With the kind of selection, I am not very hopeful about India's chances in the T20 WC. We are way off Australia and England who go with horses for courses, while we go with perceptions. Abhishek Sharma, Rinku, Varun C, T Natrajan, Bhuvneshwar Kumar and few more with great form aren't even been considered. Our Captain & Vice Captain are struggling with form and fitness both. God help us! Thinking of supporting West Indies, atleast they would entertain!
VWAllstar is offline  
Old 12th May 2024, 11:31   #3746
Senior - BHPian
 
antz.bin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,009
Thanked: 4,107 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (7)
Re: The IPL Thread

We criticize people whom we expect something from and who we know can get better with the ability they already possess. Why will I criticize someone whom I don't expect anything from?

I will criticize Bajaj/KTM/Kawasaki, not Hero/Honda/Yamaha
I will criticize Tata, not Maruti
I will criticize Agarkar, not Jadeja
I will criticize Kohli and KL not Hardik

I will criticize the person I want to do better. If I criticize without having any intention of them getting better, then it's trolling. I like what Venkatesh Prasad did to KL a couple of months back. If KL would have taken it in the right spirit, he would have made it to the WC team.

SunnyG along with the rest of us very well know the ability of Kohli. But there is also a modern, data driven way of playing T20 that does not align with the way Kohli has played the game for the past 15 years. He has the ability due to his immense talent and determination to course correct and he has shown that he definitely can. There was a mental block that needed to be removed. Social media backlash has done it's job. Even Hanuman ji needs to be reminded what he can do through Hanuman Chalisa. VK is only human.

Coming to Rohit, regardless of what he is doing at the IPL (which I only follow scores of), he has shown that he has what it takes to bat selflessly to further the National team's cause at a World Cup not too long ago. What Rohit the batter did at the 50 overs World Cup above and beyond what was expected of him as an opening batting captain. The result is immaterial but his heart was in the right place all along, including the Final. I cannot criticize someone who is already going above and beyond for the country.

I only want India to win the World Cup. That is my only interest in the IPL. If it means supporting the guys giving the best player of my generation a dressing down, so be it.

Last edited by antz.bin : 12th May 2024 at 11:33. Reason: Removed controversial line
antz.bin is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 12th May 2024, 11:50   #3747
Senior - BHPian
 
harry10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 2,725
Thanked: 3,791 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post

Coming to Rohit, regardless of what he is doing at the IPL (which I only follow scores of), he has shown that he has what it takes to bat selflessly to further the National team's cause at a World Cup not too long ago. What Rohit the batter did at the 50 overs World Cup above and beyond what was expected of him as an opening batting captain. The result is immaterial but his heart was in the right place all along, including the Final. I cannot criticize someone who is already going above and beyond for the country.

I only want India to win the World Cup. That is my only interest in the IPL. If it means supporting the guys giving the best player of my generation a dressing down, so be it.
You have your own perspective and although I don't agree with it I won't debate it. For me everyone should be criticized if they don't play well and lauded when they do. There are no in betweens. These guys don't do a 9-5 like most Indians and still make peanuts largely. These guys make 100's of crores for playing a sport and they are accountable for that. For example if you are a Project manager and not delivering for your client then your company in most likely hood will sack you cos there is accountability. Same way these cricketers should be accountable for non performance.

This is why I don't mind Sunny G criticizing Kohli if he feels Kohli needs to improve. But, don't do double standards then. Remove your Mumbai lobby stuff and criticize Rohit Sharma or even a SKY who failed miserably in World cup. For them Sunny G gets quiet as a duck. Be a Gautam Gambhir. Hated by so many for spitting facts about everyone and not just biased to individuals. I am quite sure if we make Gautam Gambhir Indian team coach he will bring results because that guy is performance oriented and alienated to Hero worshipping. Plus he is loaded so he doesn't care about bcci money.

Anyways, another thing. What is this selfless stuff which media keeps on harping out and so many fans have taken in too. You are Indian Captain, opening in World cup. You are supposed to make runs and not just 30-40 but in an ODI the top 3 should aim for 80+ atleast. It's literally his job to make runs. There is no selfless stuff attached to it. Do we see Australian media and fans go hyper and say how Selfless Travis head is for his attacking batting and even winning them the Cup. He is also an opener and plays more attacking than Rohit. Heck, Cummins who got them the ODI World cup as Captain denied T20 world cup captaincy as he wasn't a sure starter in every game due to their team balance. An Indian Captain ain't ever gonna do this and that's true selfless stuff.

Hero worshipping is taking Indian cricket nowhere. Unless players are selected on form and merit nothings gonna change. Same old 11 faces cup after cup and Trophy cupboard stays empty. To be honest I don't mind even fielding a whole new youngsters team like Gill, Gaikwad, Rinku, Abhishek Sharma, Samson, Varun Chakravarty, bishnoi etc. Even if they lose the Cup they will gain experience and will be prepared for next time. Or they may surprise us with their fearless approach and hunger and win the Cup. Who knows.

Last edited by harry10 : 12th May 2024 at 11:59.
harry10 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 12th May 2024, 11:58   #3748
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Saharanpur
Posts: 158
Thanked: 413 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Just one question to the Indian team bashers here and saying that Australia are picking the team based on IPL form- on what basis they have picked Maxwell and Warner for T20 WC? I don’t think any of them is even top 50 run getters in this IPL. Doesn’t Jake Fraser deserve a chance over these senior players? Even Starc I think should had been droped going by his IPL performances.

Last edited by Aakash118 : 12th May 2024 at 12:02.
Aakash118 is offline  
Old 12th May 2024, 12:10   #3749
Senior - BHPian
 
harry10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 2,725
Thanked: 3,791 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aakash118 View Post
Just one question to the Indian team bashers here and saying that Australia are picking the team based on IPL form- on what basis they have picked Maxwell and Warner for T20 WC? I don’t think any of them is even top 50 run getters in this IPL. Doesn’t Jake Fraser deserve a chance over these senior players? Even Starc I think should had been droped going by his IPL performances.
Because Maxwell and Warner have performed for them in World cup before. Can you say the same about Rohit Sharma?

And Fraser Mcgurk himself has admitted he is new and not enough international experience as yet so his time will come. He clearly stated IPL and international are quite different. Yes, I agree about Starc. Like Rohit he has been pedestrian in t20 format. However, they don't have good replacements as guys Like jhye Richardson are injury proned. Australians don't give World cup caps easily or even Australian debut caps. A talent like Mike hussey made his debut at age of 30. There domestic game structure is very solid and that's why when someone plays for national team he is quite ready.

What makes Australia different from Indian team is their ability to perform in knockouts which matters. Be it a veteran or a newcomer they somehow come to party at the right moment. And our Indian team even if doing splendidly well just crumble out in knockouts. Maybe it's a mental block issue then a skill issue. The winning trophy mentality is missing since a decade.

Last edited by harry10 : 12th May 2024 at 12:12.
harry10 is offline  
Old 12th May 2024, 12:44   #3750
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Saharanpur
Posts: 158
Thanked: 413 Times
Re: The IPL Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
And our Indian team even if doing splendidly well just crumble out in knockouts. Maybe it's a mental block issue then a skill issue. The winning trophy mentality is missing since a decade.
Exactly, itís a mental block which is stopping us from winning trophies. And for that we need to come with a better solution rather than picking a team based on IPL. We need players to take the knockouts just like any other game, thatís exactly the reason why MS won trophies for India. We need a captain and coach combo which can convince players to take these games just as another day in the office. India losing knockouts in last decade is similar to Pak always losing against India in WCs because their players take that extra pressure of it being a Ďbig gameí. No need to do anything fancy, just go, play normally and donít think too much about the result, that should be the way. And I feel Rohit has this ability to be a cool minded skipper and certainly deserves at least one more chance. The only other players I see with a cool minded captaincy head are Ash (but is probably not suited for shorter formats) and Ruturaj (is probably still too new to be leading in a WC).
Aakash118 is offline   (1) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks