[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

CEO Sundar Pichai told employees in an email today that he takes “full responsibility for the decisions that led us here."

What difference statements like these makes? or do they expect someone else to take the responsibility?

Be interesting to see if someone takes this to court and makes Sundar pay their mortgage.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Vishal.R

Between tons of updates in LinkedIn from all those who are part of mass lay-offs, someone raised a valid question that many of those who are working with 5+, 10+ even 15+ years of same organisation like Google, Microsoft, Amazon are also part of this layoffs, so concept of "loyalty" is no longer valid at least in such kind of organisations.

I don't think there's any "loyalty" at any point of time, not even 10 years back. And it's even foolish to expect it. I don't think any employees would stay with the org either if they aren't benefited some way or the other and will move on as soon as the benefits are not lucrative anymore.

I was with one of the laptop/desktop giant close to 15 years back and have seen long tenured employees laid off in a split second, but generous with severance package based on the tenure.

I have been with my current org for close to 6 years now and happy with the amazing work-life balance and reasonable growth I have had, + the opportunity to lead some initiatives beyond work too. My reason for the stint at the moment is more than the payment and am willing to have a compromise between a moderate pay and the less stress work. The day I lose out on the beautiful work culture, I'll move on as salary is definitely average at best.

[poloman]

You work for a company for 15-20 years. Contribute most of your productive life to a company and what you get in the end. You are logged out in the morning and taken to a website created to inform you that you are fired. This is what has happened to lot of folks at Google and Microsoft. These companies are the ones who talk big things about inclusion, diversity, mental health etc.

I have always maintained that headcount reduction is a part and parcel of the IT industry. But where is the humane touch and closure? Why can't they show some compassion?
12000 people is the size of an average mid size IT company. You let go so many people in one go, leaving them and their family to fend for themselves. The chances of getting a new job is bleak in the current scenario.

These companies did not have any visibility of the market ahead and simply resort to pump and dump when it comes to headcount. They were recruiting even last quarter. The employees are pushed down from a cliff of heavy salary packages to nothing overnight. They will have huge mortgages and bills to pay.

The most saner way is to do this is to give 2 months notice. Let them have a proper closure and honorable exit. Is this too much to ask for??

Also I feel these occasions are used by some managers to take out the grudge on some well performing employees.

[rakesh_r]

Is Amazon again going ahead with fresh round of layoffs?
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/18/amaz...00-people.html

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by poloman

The most saner way is to do this is to give 2 months notice. Let them have a proper closure and honorable exit. Is this too much to ask for??

Also I feel these occasions are used by some managers to take out the grudge on some well performing employees.

Even now, most layoffs are based on a 3 months severance pay and other payments based on tenure. How is a 2 month notice different from a 3 month severance pay ? You mean allow employee to work for 2 more months after notifying him that he will be terminated ? No company will take that risk. Employees will hold grudge and do unpredictable things. At best one can argue for more severance pay.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Even now, most layoffs are based on a 3 months severance pay and other payments based on tenure. How is a 2 month notice different from a 3 month severance pay ? You mean allow employee to work for 2 more months after notifying him that he will be terminated ? No company will take that risk. Employees will hold grudge and do unpredictable things. At best one can argue for more severance pay.

My company, a top semi conductor company and many others doing that. Employees can be provided limited access and given honorable exit.

[gururajrv]

So much for being a "Corporate"

This reminds me of the words my uncle used to always tell me - there's an added advantage being a government employee but I never listened to him because I always thought back in college days being a "Corporate" gives better quality life. Apparently I now realize the uncertainty the term "Corporate" brings with it Vs the government jobs. Yes, government jobs doesn't pay you well but the added advantage comes in the form of certainty in jobs, pension etc.

I really am feeling anxious about the certainty of jobs in the corporate world and it's so evidently seen. I feel for those who have been left stranded in the sea of commitments they'd have. I really wish all this settles down and those who may have lost jobs get a better paying job soon!

[Samurai]

Tone of this thread has changed a lot since the hay days of 2021, isn't it? Frequent job hopping with 100% hike was the norm. Then it was "Screw the employers, make hay when sun shines". Now the employers are not loyal enough?

Candidates didn't complain when Big Tech paid crazy salaries. Those excesses have finally ended. Why did folks make long time financial commitments based on short term bubbles in the job market? You can't lay these mistakes at the feet of Big Tech.

[vj_torqueaddict]

Why did folks make long time financial commitments based on short term bubbles in the job market? You can't lay these mistakes at the feet of Big Tech.

Can't emphasise this enough. This is nothing new. Have been part of one recession already. What that taught me is to not have big loans, as this industry is unpredictable. I have few folks in business community and us IT folks can learn a lot from them. And I am sure those who were in Google for 15 years have enough corpus for emergencies likes this. If not, then it's poor planning. Anyways they will be lapped up by competitors in no time.

P.S I have been affected by these layoffs and recession in the past.

[vegitakarthik]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Candidates didn't complain when Big Tech paid crazy salaries. Those excesses have finally ended. Why did folks make long time financial commitments based on short term bubbles in the job market? You can't lay these mistakes at the feet of Big Tech.

There are few problems with your statement. The current layoffs include senior employees who had stayed with an organization for many years. They didn't job hop frequently during 2021 bubble for salary.
Secondly, those so called leaders made the decision of discretionary spending to start too many projects during industry Boom. Crazy hiring spree ensued To account for that. Now as Industry falters they fire newly hired as well as experienced to maintain their margin. If its the wrong decision by leaders then why regular employees need to be penalized. Leaders should own up to their mistakes not just employees.
Last but not least what's happening in google is just panic firing to account for future loss in revenue(ChatGPT's emergence will affect Google's biggest revenue maker - Google Search. Read about code red at google)

[Gokuljayaraj]

IT has always been like this. There is no real job security unless you’re in a role with high visibility and have flawless performance in that role. You’re paid accordingly for this. Most people have the skills to land another job on short notice. Since there is no notice period when you’re laid off, you should have no trouble landing a new job unless you’re really bad at what you do. As long as you stay up to date on tech and have a few certifications under your belt, you will be fine.

But what’s alarming is the lack of sympathy I see on many online social media for people who are laid off. Some are almost happy that layoffs are happening in IT. There are human beings at the end of the day. They are closer to the average middle class person in wealth than they are to the executives of the organisation. Hopefully the layoffs stop soon and people who were affected find better long term roles elsewhere.

[SoumenD]

Surprised at all the noise around layoffs. I mean recession and layoffs are a part and parcel of IT industry isn’t it? 2000 we saw it followed by 2008/09 which was massive. 2020 it did start for a brief moment but the push towards digitisation created a sudden demand and we saw hirings/salaries shoot through the roof. Only thing different is the big-techs(M/FAANG) weren’t as big back then and hence are seeing probably the first major round of layoffs.

Veterans have been warning about this being an superficial demand and one should not make long term monetary commitments based on the high pay we see now as this is not sustainable/guaranteed. Even back in 2008/09 I remember seeing many of my seniors being put in a spot as they had huge loans for newly purchased homes/flats/cars.

Corporate world doesn’t work on ‘loyalty, ethics & all’. Expecting that is only foolish. HR might say a 100 things in townhall but reality is corporate world works on one thing alone and that’s ‘numbers’. Sooner people realize it the better.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by vegitakarthik

There are few problems with your statement. The current layoffs include senior employees who had stayed with an organization for many years.

Not really. Senior employees should know even better, as they have watched the industry long enough to know that party can end any time. Such people would have a big enough corpus to support themselves for a while, unless their financial planning was really poor. They will get picked up soon enough thanks to ex-Google or ex-Amazon in their Linkedin profile.

[Pennant1970]

Anyone expecting "loyalty" from a corporate entity towards their employees is really not aware of employment dynamics and economic realities. A company and its top management is only responsible for the profitability of the business.

Of course, there are human touches when there are layoffs - but it's not mandatory. What loyalty do many employees show when they leave a job with no real resort for the company to fulfill their vacancy? There's reasons for many jobs insisting on 3 months of notice to leave. I used to keep my contractual notice periods for my hires to a month despite group HR demanding three. Of course, I had discretionary powers because I headed an independent media company within the group. Also, I used to never keep anyone beyond the day they wanted to leave. Of course this applies when someone is let go also.

It's a pity that people think a job in a reputed company is the final step to a settled life. This is a leftover from the previous generation's obsession with "Government jobs"! As someone of that generation and having worked at two Central Government jobs before going my own way, it's disheartening to see that we are still so stuck on the same old paradigms of stability.

The middle class must be able to make changes, both in their own lives as well as social norms where we force businesses also to be part of the fabric of the country's human element. Unfortunately, our PoV of life has changed drastically in the last few decades.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant - but we reap what we sow.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

You mean allow employee to work for 2 more months after notifying him that he will be terminated ? No company will take that risk. Employees will hold grudge and do unpredictable things. At best one can argue for more severance pay.

Originally Posted by poloman

My company, a top semi conductor company and many others doing that. Employees can be provided limited access and given honorable exit.

An American firm I used to work for did it when they shut down the India operations a decade ago. Everyone was informed about their last date, 1 or 2 months in advance based on the project, and the severance pay was given on top of that. So the lucky ones got 2 months' notice and severance pay. Most managers used their contacts to land interviews for their team members in those two months. There was no grudge against the company AFAIK.

But at the end of the day one needs to understand that it is just a contract and the company is not obligated to provide anything over the salary. It may come as a shock to the junior employees but older folks should be aware of this reality and be prepared. Most people with half-decent skill sets will land a job sooner or later. There is no need to cry on social media and expect sympathy.