[m8002?]

Also, across industries, Sales & Marketing also see a lot of changes.
Unlike earlier days, even private school teachers change jobs often these days.

[Samurai]

"The starting salary after MBBS is as low as Rs 10-20K per month. Nowhere to the tune of 15-20lakh per annum being spoken here for post Btech! How does this society feel so comfortable advising a life-saving doctor to live for ideals and not look for money, while gloating at engineer salaries?" Dr Krishnamurthy tweeted.

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/...960-2023-04-11

Well, can't say he is wrong. Economics is a function of supply and demand. Economics doesn't care about fairness. That is why business-economics and socio-economics are always at loggerheads.

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by Samurai

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/...960-2023-04-11

Well, can't say he is wrong. Economics is a function of supply and demand. Economics doesn't care about fairness. That is why business-economics and socio-economics are always at loggerheads.

He might be partially right about the starting salary but once they get the required experienced, they are paid through the nose. For most IT engineers, their experience eventually becomes a liability thanks to ageism apart from the constant need to upskill with skills that could be vastly different. I don't think the medical field undergoes so much of changes to upskill constantly.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

I don't think the medical field undergoes so much of changes to upskill constantly.

Perhaps not at the same pace, but changes do happen and older doctors do get disadvantaged. Again, that happens much later in the cycle than IT engineers for sure, but it does happen and doctors too need to keep abreast or get affected.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Economics is a function of supply and demand.

While I'm not sure how much sense it makes to compare fields, especially something like medicine; each field has such different factors, I'm wondering if there is such a shortage of doctors that starting salaries are so low? I always thought we had one of the lowest doctor-population ratios. And that it's pretty hard to get a medical seat. So shouldn't that drive up demand?

[warrioraks]

I know MBAs who started off in banking with a salary of 18-20k per month. This is even lesser than what fresh engineers earn in WITCH companies.

In a general sense, medicine is considered a noble profession, and it makes for an emotionally good argument that doctors are earning lesser than engineers.

The fact remains that the income opportunities for most professions are openly available to any aspiring student. So sometimes it becomes a moot point to compare across industries at a logical level. But at a human level, comparison with your neighbor, society, etc is something that only a lucky few are able to manage in life.

Added later: No offense to doctors, bankers or fresh IT engineers. As was quoted above by another member, it's all demand and supply.

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Well, can't say he is wrong. Economics is a function of supply and demand. Economics doesn't care about fairness. That is why business-economics and socio-economics are always at loggerheads.

I feel it is going to get worse as the supply side has increased quite irrationally, especially the sub/superspecialists. Also, the Indian private sector is increasingly moving to a private corporate owned system where the "men in suits" are the ones who will decide on docs' pay.

And the business economics is showing. Today across the country, both in government and private medical colleges, seats in the highly skilled branches of Cardiothoracic surgery and Paediatric surgery ( these courses are of 3years duration and are done after 5.5yrs of MBBS and then 3 yrs of MS General Surgery) are running vacant as there are no takers.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Samurai

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/...960-2023-04-11

Well, can't say he is wrong. Economics is a function of supply and demand. Economics doesn't care about fairness. That is why business-economics and socio-economics are always at loggerheads.

Last I recollect with real experience (10-15 years back), MBBS seat in one Pune college was priced at ~10-15 lakhs. People pay high for seats when they know they can recover it later.

I am sure most doctors are not sticking with entry level Rs 20000 per month salary forever. Alternatively, many also have private practice where they collect fees in cash.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

Also, the Indian private sector is increasingly moving to a private corporate owned system where the "men in suits" are the ones who will decide on docs' pay.

IT folks are perfectly fine with that since the revenue is coming from abroad.

But the income for doctors come primarily from the local populace, unless the said hospital has medical tourism practices.

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

And the business economics is showing. Today across the country, both in government and private medical colleges, seats in the highly skilled branches of Cardiothoracic surgery and Paediatric surgery ( these courses are of 3years duration and are done after 5.5yrs of MBBS and then 3 yrs of MS General Surgery) are running vacant as there are no takers.

That is 11.5 years of studying... Isn't there demand for Cardiothoracic surgery and Paediatric surgery by the patients?

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Isn't there demand for Cardiothoracic surgery and Paediatric surgery by the patients?

There are multiple factors. One of them is demand related. The demand often comes from a section of the populace who are often not able to pay " through the nose"
Both branches also need a lot of support from specialist anaesthetists and ICU teams, hence are often dependent on large hospitals. So they are unable to set up independent practices or move to smaller towns easily.
For cardiac surgeons, ever since the cardiac physicians started stenting the arterial blocks(=angioplasty), their patient load has come down,
After 11.5yrs of study, the average starting pay is around 80-90000/month.

[hondatoyotafan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

That is 11.5 years of studying... Isn't there demand for Cardiothoracic surgery and Paediatric surgery by the patients?

As Deep Blue said the number of procedures being done by CT surgeons has become lesser, Paediatric surgeons are better off now.

[hondatoyotafan]

Originally Posted by am1m

While I'm not sure how much sense it makes to compare fields, especially something like medicine; each field has such different factors, I'm wondering if there is such a shortage of doctors that starting salaries are so low? I always thought we had one of the lowest doctor-population ratios. And that it's pretty hard to get a medical seat. So shouldn't that drive up demand?

There is no shortage of doctors whether primary care of specialists in Tier 1 and Tier 2 Cities. The oft repeated data from the government about the shortage of doctors is in the rural hinterlands where less doctors prefer to go to work or setup shop. My dad went to inspect such a rural health facility under his management and found that no doctors preferred to work there as there were no roads nor any places for rent to live in the village. Once the infrastructure comes to rural areas we would see more doctors going to rural areas to work.

[condor]

During a discussion at office, a team mate mentioned that there's a surplus of skilled resources in the market, making it tough to find openings amidst the current layoff situation.

Another rumour is that companies are avoiding hiring people over 50 of age. While it can be said to be discriminatory, its easy to do this if a company wants. For some roles, 40-45 seems to be the cut-off and only specific cases are getting through in the hiring.

Any comments - APART from the "ethics" part of this. Has any one seen this happening?

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by condor

For some roles, 40-45 seems to be the cut-off and only specific cases are getting thru in the hiring.

Any comments - APART from the "ethics" part of this. Has any one seen this happening ?

It depends. Age would be a filtering criteria; but in my experience, it comes down much below other important criteria that is evaluated first
- relevant experience (vs what we want)
- financials (the resource ask vs what we can offer)
- notice period (how quickly can s/he join)
- ... other job-specific requirements

Age might also play a part with regards to existing bias(es) that the younger resource would be okay with a lower salary (not necessarily true always); and s/he would be ready to put more hours in work (again not necessarily true always).

No idea about hiring for beyond 45; but I see senior folks (in my firm & outside) shifting jobs so that's that. However this might vary for each of us depending on multiple reasons (skillsets/area/industry/salary-asks/etc); so hard to draw a line in the sand.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

...Today across the country, both in government and private medical colleges, seats in the highly skilled branches of Cardiothoracic surgery and Paediatric surgery ( these courses are of 3years duration and are done after 5.5yrs of MBBS and then 3 yrs of MS General Surgery) are running vacant as there are no takers.

Are you sure about that? My neighbor back home just got into the Nashik govt college(cant remember the name). He has been struggling since sometime now to get into Pediatric specialization AFAIK. When we last spoke he was like competition is too fierce but was determined he wanted this specialization so kept trying for pretty long.

[m8002?]

The biggest problem is that in India, people expect salaries/titles/designations based on the number of years of experience and age. And not on skills.

I had taken in somebody with 18 years experience ( and previously was a manager ) at a software engineer role since the guy wanted to be an IC and take up less load for some personal reasons. He was willing to join at the Software Engineer 2 level salary as well. But these are rare cases.