Team-BHP > Shifting gears


Reply
 
735,425 views Search this Thread
Old 27th May 2023, 21:34   #1186
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 412
Thanked: 1,591 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Stumbled across this article in Time magazine.

Companies even when making record profits, cut thousands of jobs leading to recessions.

Quote:
The debate over whether the U.S. is in a recession is ongoing, but if a recession does hit the American economy, itís CEOs, not consumers, who should shoulder most of the blame after conducting widespread layoffs even as their companies are delivering strong performance.
Layoffs during troubled times to cut costs is one thing.

Quote:
For much of the past century, companies didnít lay off workers until they were in trouble and needed to cut costs, says Matthew Bidwell, a professor of management at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.
but it is no longer the case

Quote:
ďThey got comfortable with, Ďweíre making money, but we can be making even more money,íĒ he says. This was around the time that companies stopped investing so much money in workers, getting rid of pension plans and other benefits for long-time employees, offering less training, and generally viewing workers as interchangeable. Those changes have made it easier for employers to justify cutting staff. In 1979, for example, fewer than 5% of Fortune 500 companies announced layoffs; during the Great Recession and its aftermath, 65% did.
This directly affects the economy when the consumer sentiment dips.

Quote:
Layoffs like these could play a role in how the economy is perceived in the medium-to-long term, which may have a knock-on effect elsewhere in the economy. These layoffs are helping contribute to flailing consumer sentiment about the economy, which in itself could contribute to a recession. American households may cut back on spending in anticipation of bad times, even if their finances are doing well, and laid-off workers will behave cautiously until they find new jobs.
and the effect that layoffs has on the remaining staff

Quote:
Downsizing a workforce by 1% can lead to a 31% increase in voluntary turnover, according to a study by researchers at the University of WisconsinĖMadison and the University of South Carolina. Another study, by researchers at Stockholm University and the University of Canterbury found that after a layoff, survivors at the companies experienced a 41% decline in job satisfaction.
Quote:
The conflicting behavior of business leaders is making it even harder to gauge where the economy is headed. But with each layoff and CEO prognostication of gloom in the face of growth, the possibility of economic storms ahead grows.
AltoLXI is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 5th June 2023, 21:41   #1187
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 412
Thanked: 1,591 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

No wonder, kids (also encouraged by their parents and relatives) want to pursue CS and IT at any cost and at any tier 2/3 college. At least they have some slim chance of getting the interviews unlike those pursuing other branches.

Below average colleges (who exploit both parents and kids), demotivated staff, kids with no aptitude for IT field, pressure from relatives to join IT, media and journalists (who have zero idea about the industry) creating hype (like they do for real estate) - all a deadly combo for the situation. Cannot blame the poor kids as well.

Quote:
A student from a private engineering college in Koramangala said only three companies had turned up at her college to recruit from the Electronic Communication (EC) branch. “The college had promised 100% placements when we joined. Now, there are very few companies coming here for EC, and there are no recruiters for the civil and mechanical branches. Even the companies which are coming are start-ups and are offering a package of ₹4 lakh per annum. Our fees for four years was more than that,”
Link

Last edited by AltoLXI : 5th June 2023 at 21:43.
AltoLXI is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 19th June 2023, 19:05   #1188
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Banaglore
Posts: 612
Thanked: 1,894 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Transamerica prematurely ends 2 Billion USD to deal with TCS. Citing macro environment. Link.

Wondering if these are warning signs for the Indian IT industry going forward.
JediKnight is offline  
Old 21st June 2023, 07:46   #1189
BHPian
 
TM_Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 36
Thanked: 57 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Hi All

I am in a very disturbed state of mind, I thought I can take suggestions from this forum

I was working for an organisation and I was leading a team of 30 people, last year I moved to one of the competitor company due to financial reasons and it’s been 6 months now.

As a growing organisation there are lot of openings and few people my previous organisation and previous team have joined my current organisation based on their own decisions and I have not influenced any one.

Now I am getting calls from previous organisation HR stating that they heard I have been poaching their employees by forcing them to join my current organisation which is unethical and it’s against anti poaching policy.

I am worried what would be the impact of this, will there be any impact on my career or will there be any legal implications of this. I have not forced anyone nor I have influenced anyone to move on, people are matured enough to take their own decisions. But this thing has been disturbed me a lot

Can you all please share your thoughts
TM_Turbo is offline   (10) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 08:04   #1190
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: All over!
Posts: 7,163
Thanked: 16,470 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post
Now I am getting calls from previous organisation HR stating that they heard I have been poaching their employees by forcing them to join my current organisation which is unethical and itís against anti poaching policy.
Since you say you have nothing to do with people switching over, don't sweat over it. Very immature, unprofessional and silly from the HR. They're probably just frustrated having to deal with the resignations and the following hiring, and perhaps are getting heat regarding the attrition.

If employees were responsible for job switching, HR from Infosys - TCS - Cognizant would permanently be on the phone trading accusations to each other.
libranof1987 is offline   (24) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 08:05   #1191
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Poone, Mumbay
Posts: 398
Thanked: 1,408 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post
Now I am getting calls from previous organisation HR stating that they heard I have been poaching their employees by forcing them to join my current organisation which is unethical and itís against anti poaching policy.

I am worried what would be the impact of this, will there be any impact on my career or will there be any legal implications of this. I have not forced anyone nor I have influenced anyone to move on, people are matured enough to take their own decisions. But this thing has been disturbed me a lot

Can you all please share your thoughts
All companies poach talent from other places, and it is very common for managers to bring some of their good people with them when they move to a new job.
Even if you have a specific line in your older employment contract that bars you from soliciting ex colleagues to join, it is impossible to enforce, as people can reach out on their own, as you said.
I would not worry too much about it
Mustang Sammy is offline  
Old 21st June 2023, 08:12   #1192
BHPian
 
TM_Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 36
Thanked: 57 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang Sammy View Post
All companies poach talent from other places, and it is very common for managers to bring some of their good people with them when they move to a new job.
Even if you have a specific line in your older employment contract that bars you from soliciting ex colleagues to join, it is impossible to enforce, as people can reach out on their own, as you said.
I would not worry too much about it
Thank you for your inputs, this kind of gives me some moral support, I have heard a lot of depression, anxiety, etc in the corporate world but for the first time experiencing it and it is horrible


Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Since you say you have nothing to do with people switching over, don't sweat over it. Very immature, unprofessional and silly from the HR. They're probably just frustrated having to deal with the resignations and the following hiring, and perhaps are getting heat regarding the attrition.

If employees were responsible for job switching, HR from Infosys - TCS - Cognizant would permanently be on the phone trading accusations to each other.
The problem is I am in the interview panel in my current organisation and people from previous organisation think that I am just selecting people from my previous team because I want poach people
TM_Turbo is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 08:37   #1193
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Pune
Posts: 85
Thanked: 268 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post
The problem is I am in the interview panel in my current organisation and people from previous organisation think that I am just selecting people from my previous team because I want poach people
Do not worry. Just tell them that you are not poaching anyone and ask them to share any complaint towards you in writing (email is fine), so that you can consult your lawyer and circle back (do mention the lawyer point if required, so that they know they cannot run scot-free after threatening you on phone). Ask them to not trouble you on phone, saying that it is not possible for you to entertain them on phone especially during office hours, as you need to focus on your own job. Be polite yet firm. Ask them to stop calling you randomly, as you are (and better be) busy with your current responsibilities.

Always keep in mind thata these conversations might be getting recorded without you being informed (which itself is unethical), so if they accuse you of something, stay calm and say you are putting false allegations on me. Many a time if we lose temper we lose the ability to rationally argue, so just stay cool, calm and composed. Ask them to respect your time and put their accusations in writing.

Slightly off-topic but since you mentioned: What many of us follow as interview panelists is to refrain from interviewing our own ex-colleagues or any candidate who we personally know. You can just say that you know the interviewee already and hence you would not like to interview him/her, and request someone else to take that interview. Even your existing employer will appreciate that gesture/professionalism, and no one in your previous/current organization will have a reason to think you're selecting your/known folks yourself, or poaching!

The above should do the trick. As many have said above, do not spoil your own peace of mind because of some unprofessional folks. All the best!

Last edited by jaysheth : 21st June 2023 at 08:42.
jaysheth is offline   (33) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 09:29   #1194
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,719
Thanked: 10,247 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post
I have not forced anyone nor I have influenced anyone to move on, people are matured enough to take their own decisions. But this thing has been disturbed me a lot
Don't worry at all. Since you say you had nothing to do with getting people to switch, you have nothing to worry about.

And say, even if you did, so what. I've known enough HR folk and top management executives who do the same. Why does the HR head of every IT company support and promote their 'referral system/bonus' if they don't want to encourage their employees to encourage people they know from other companies to apply? Funny how when a 'founder/entrepreneur/CEO' 'brings his team over' it's something to admire, otherwise it's poaching! Always different standards. Ignore these people who never practice what they preach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysheth View Post
What many of us follow as interview panelists is to refrain from interviewing our own ex-colleagues or any candidate who we personally know.
Absolutely! This is the best and correct thing to do. If you know the candidate you are interviewing/referring personally, you should never be a part of the interview panel.

EDIT:

My suggestion is not to respond to them at all and avoid escalating the situation. But if they are stupid enough to keep harassing you:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/sta...ce-834277.html

Last edited by am1m : 21st June 2023 at 09:48.
am1m is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 09:40   #1195
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 394
Thanked: 908 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post
Hi All

I am in a very disturbed state of mind, I thought I can take suggestions from this forum

I was working for an organisation and I was leading a team of 30 people, last year I moved to one of the competitor company due to financial reasons and itís been 6 months now.

As a growing organisation there are lot of openings and few people my previous organisation and previous team have joined my current organisation based on their own decisions and I have not influenced any one.

Now I am getting calls from previous organisation HR stating that they heard I have been poaching their employees by forcing them to join my current organisation which is unethical and itís against anti poaching policy.

I am worried what would be the impact of this, will there be any impact on my career or will there be any legal implications of this. I have not forced anyone nor I have influenced anyone to move on, people are matured enough to take their own decisions. But this thing has been disturbed me a lot

Can you all please share your thoughts
If you have not forwarded their Resume nor taking part in interviews there is nothing to fear.

People come to know about companies hiring when someone joins a certain company. Senior executives actually take a big team when they leave and no one makes it an issue.

I am not sure if there is a official rule regarding this aspect and what numbers constitute poaching.
PreludeSH is offline  
Old 21st June 2023, 09:57   #1196
BHPian
 
TSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 419
Thanked: 828 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post
Hi All


Now I am getting calls from previous organisation HR stating that they heard I have been poaching their employees by forcing them to join my current organisation which is unethical and itís against anti poaching policy.

I am worried what would be the impact of this, will there be any impact on my career or will there be any legal implications of this. I have not forced anyone nor I have influenced anyone to move on, people are matured enough to take their own decisions. But this thing has been disturbed me a lot

Can you all please share your thoughts
Please report and discuss this your current company HR. The legal team from your current organisation will clarify all your doubts.
TSEA is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 10:22   #1197
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi-NCR
Posts: 3,786
Thanked: 57,222 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Dear@TM_Turbo,

I write this as a brother Team BHPian and not as an employer more so as Team BHP is here as a forum of mutual help. As an employer of many decades standing I/my company has been in the shoes of your ex-organization's HR department and done the nasty things they are trying to do now. So this is advice from the other side - the evil employer :-)

Usually on this thread I fly the flag for the beleaguered employer but sensing you seem to be genuinely concerned here is my honest answer below. I assume there are no more hidden facts or written trails other than what you have stated above. Hope this helps. Best of luck with your new career.

V.Narayan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post
As a growing organisation there are lot of openings and few people my previous organisation and previous team have joined my current organisation based on their own decisions and I have not influenced any one.
If you do not have a written trail of emails or hard copy letters inviting an ex-colleague to quit you have nothing, absolutely nothing to worry about as far as the law of the land goes. Even if you do have the odd mail trail and if they were silly enough to file a case against you any Judge with half a brain won't even permit a case to be filed. So, chill.
Quote:
Now I am getting calls from previous organisation HR stating that they heard I have been poaching their employees by forcing them to join my current organisation which is unethical and itís against anti-poaching policy.
Ignore their calls. You are not obliged to pick up their calls unless they owe you some money -e.g., gratuity or other dues. Let them deal with their own frustrations. Avoid yelling or fighting with them as bad blood has a way of circling back. Quietly ignoring is the best route. Today's news wraps tomorrow's fish. With time this will die out on its own.
Quote:
I am worried what would be the impact of this, will there be any impact on my career or will there be any legal implications of this.
Nakko, Nyet, Nah, No, Nahin. What does your original employment letter with them say + do you have a written trail of any kind inviting folks to join your current organization + are you being paid an incentive by your current employer to bring friends and associates to them - those are the questions you need to ask yourself. From a practical point of view, I'd say you are snug safe and happy. If you were a CEO who went about poaching with enthusiasm, then they may have been in a better position to take a tougher stand. Enjoy your new role and best of luck.
V.Narayan is offline   (18) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 11:53   #1198
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,719
Thanked: 10,247 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
So companies building products in China for China are assured of success if the end-product is good enough.
Moving that quoted bit from another thread to this one, to ask a question.

What is the scene like today for Indian software product companies looking to serve the Indian market?

When I started gaining an interest in computers back in school, I'd read about people like Atul Chitnis who spoke about creating IT products for Indian businesses. By the time I graduated from college, the IT outsourcing boom was well underway and then it was all about creating IT SEZs and tax-breaks for companies servicing the US market.

Apart from my first job, I've spent all of my career (20+ years) working for the Indian branches of US IT companies, where the customer base was almost entirely in the US/Europe. So I don't really know much about the demand for IT products/revenue/potential of/from the Indian market.

I know there are a lot of Indian product companies that have large software divisions, like Ola and Swiggy. But was wondering about the level of requirement and revenues from the Indian market for IT. Obviously we have massive corporations here, but I'm guessing they use several international IT products like SAP and Oracle.

What about the thousands of small and medium-sized businesses that need IT products/services? Has that demand risen a lot? Thanks in advance for any information.

Last edited by am1m : 21st June 2023 at 11:54.
am1m is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 12:58   #1199
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 164
Thanked: 2,386 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TM_Turbo View Post

As a growing organisation there are lot of openings and few people my previous organisation and previous team have joined my current organisation based on their own decisions and I have not influenced any one.

Now I am getting calls from previous organisation HR stating....
If your new organisation is growing fast, then soon the HR folks from your old organisation will also join the new organization and you will be able to chill out with them . Yeah, but jokes apart you can rest easy, they can't do anything.
DigitalOne is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 21st June 2023, 13:13   #1200
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 5,542
Thanked: 18,521 Times
Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Even in the case that I am openly inviting people to join promising them of better prospects, how can the HR of another company create an issue about it? As long as the candidate is not being forced/threatened to make the switch, how would the previous company HR even be able to challenge that? At the most they can prevent a future reengagement if the person in question wants to switch back to the previous organisation. Beyond that, they can stand on the tallest building in the city and cry, nothing can be done.
audioholic is online now  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks