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Old 25th July 2023, 12:44   #1351
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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I always achieved their goals without doing boring stuff.
I have a similar story to share. During my TCS days, the boring tasks always go to the junior members in the team. There was a lady in our team who used to do it happily and when she went on vacation, this fell on me. The task was to collect details of failed processes from the admin portal of a tool and create an MS excel report out of it. If there are less failed processes it takes less time, but when there are more, it could take up to a day. The same exercise had to be done in test(which I had to do) and production(referred to as prod in the rest of the post) systems(taken care by prod support).

I knew if the admin portal had to show the data on the UI, it had to be saved somewhere in the product database. I had no access to the test databases, so I started looking into my local server database(we had an instance of the server locally installed for unit testing). After some digging I was able to locate the tables which had the data for reports. Then it was a simple matter of writing a query to get everything the report needs. Armed with everything I need to avoid a huge manual process, I went to my lead and showed him what I have. He immediately shot down the proposal telling client is not going to give us access to the product database.

I was not willing to give up. Our client had offshore centers in India and we were working under the offshore managers. I had contact with our client manager and I took some risk, bypassed my lead and showed my work to the client manager and offered to get the whole process automated provided they get me the access I want. The client manager saw the potential and involved the onshore tech specialists. They felt there is nothing wrong in providing me access to a test prod database so the next day I got the credentials. My lead had no idea of all this going on behind the scenes. The next day, I ran my query against the test database and was able to get the same data in few seconds which someone was taking hours to generate manually. There was a client production team of 3 members whose job was especially to generate this report in prod. I showed them how this simple query could help them make their life easy but for some reason they were not interested. I saw my efforts were going down the drain and also the at risk of bypassing my management to get access. I realized unless I do something drastic nobody was going to use my work.

I understood people were not interested in using the query and then copy paste the data to the excel sheet, so the next step was to automate the whole report generation. Googled around for excel APIs in java, downloaded it and used the data pulled from the query to generate the same excel sheet that was manually generated. That evening the whole team got my automated report in email with the same data that was manually generated. That was my ticket out of the boring tech life. The next day I was presenting my solution to the client architect and they approved it for use in prod. Now my management who was sleeping over my idea saw the potential and the cost savings it provided to the client jumped in to claim the credit of the tool as a "inhouse developed" stuff. But luckily for me everyone on the client side knew whose idea was it and who helped to bring it to reality. After this I stared getting more challenging tasks - assigned directly from the client and my management count take these off my plate and put me back to the boring task.

Made me realize few things are worth taking the risk. You have to take the blame if you loose it, but it if becomes success, it will change your career,

The tool flaunted on my resume and used to get a sure question about this automation on interviews.

The prod support team whose job was to manually create the report was moved to more meaningful jobs and some of them even called me and thanked for saving their careers.
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Old 25th July 2023, 13:31   #1352
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Made me realize few things are worth taking the risk. You have to take the blame if you loose it, but it if becomes success, it will change your career.
.
.
.
The prod support team whose job was to manually create the report was moved to more meaningful jobs and some of them even called me and thanked for saving their careers.
Wonderful story. You need curiosity and the urge to take risks to improve things that are done sub-optimally. When that urge is very strong, you start sliding towards entrepreneurship.
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Old 25th July 2023, 15:44   #1353
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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I have a similar story to share.
You were lucky my friend. Myself, and several friends who tried such antics at indian MNC's were given bad ratings and eased out of our projects for rocking the boat.
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Old 25th July 2023, 16:19   #1354
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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You were lucky my friend. Myself, and several friends who tried such antics at indian MNC's were given bad ratings and eased out of our projects for rocking the boat.
That is why it is considered a risk...

Better to move out of such organizations if they can't handle innovation. That is why I did.
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Old 25th July 2023, 17:08   #1355
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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You were lucky my friend. Myself, and several friends who tried such antics at indian MNC's were given bad ratings and eased out of our projects for rocking the boat.
One of the biggest problems in service companies is the pervasiveness of Time and Material projects. This makes sure that any innovation/automation which has a negative impact on chargeable hours in the short term is seen with derision and untouchability.
The moment one shows such an automation to clients, they either expect a reduction in bill due to elimination of manual hours or expect some additional scope to be delivered.

As you pointed out, most managers consider this as rocking the boat un-necessarily. This in-turn tends to attract people who are fine with doing repetitive tasks and weeds out the innovative ones. Overall creating a vicious cycle of mediocrity that becomes ever hard to break.

Last edited by Axe77 : 25th July 2023 at 20:00. Reason: As requested.
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Old 25th July 2023, 18:21   #1356
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Originally Posted by d.w.w. View Post
I have a similar story to share. During my TCS days, the boring tasks always go to the junior members in the team. There was a lady in our team who used to do it happily and when she went on vacation, this fell on me. The task was to collect details of failed processes from the admin portal of a tool and create an MS excel report out of it. If there are less failed processes it takes less time, but when there are more, it could take up to a day. The same exercise had to be done in test(which I had to do) and production(referred to as prod in the rest of the post) systems(taken care by prod support).
Great job in seeing it through and standing up for what you believed in. I am not able to understand the mindset of the people in the project as I have been with the same company for many years and multiple projects and in each and everyone of them there has been focus on innovation/automation/improvements etc. No one has ever tried to stop even the most junior associates from trying out something new. Maybe yours was a one-off case or I have been very lucky!
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Old 25th July 2023, 19:02   #1357
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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You were lucky my friend. Myself, and several friends who tried such antics at indian MNC's were given bad ratings and eased out of our projects for rocking the boat.
He has one lever to pull in this case, that is Indian unit of MNC. If IT company retaliated.. MNC client might have offered him to join as employee. This would be a BIG issue for client management team sitting in US/EU.
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Old 25th July 2023, 19:56   #1358
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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One of the biggest problems in service companies is the pervasiveness of Time and Material projects. .
+ 1.
The manager cannot even put in lower band resources because then too the client will ask to reduce costs.

However, if the resource does some automation without the client's knowledge, and has the inclination to take up some stretch projects in the time he has freed up for himself, then he will gain in the long run. (I know it's not as simple as I have stated it)
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Old 26th July 2023, 11:14   #1359
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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I have been with the same company for many years and multiple projects and in each and everyone of them there has been focus on innovation/automation/improvements etc. No one has ever tried to stop even the most junior associates from trying out something new. Maybe yours was a one-off case or I have been very lucky!
Guess you have been very lucky. During my stint, I was not able to see many happy souls around. If you have a good supervisor who is open to ideas and provide support, your career is taken care of to an extend.

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He has one lever to pull in this case, that is Indian unit of MNC. If IT company retaliated.. MNC client might have offered him to join as employee.
You guessed right. The did make an offer when the contract expired and I gladly accepted.
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Old 27th July 2023, 13:48   #1360
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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I have a similar story to share. .
I think it just worked out fine for you in this case. though your automation would have been valued, the manual report gen team abroad could have lost their jobs too. which is most likely in many companies. no wonder they were not that interested when you pitched the idea.

I don't completely blame your manager for turning down your idea. In many cases, you will come across a lot of ambitious young resources claiming to change the world with their solutions which often don't work or save anything. your manager might have thought you too were one of those. sometimes, the probable solution would be discussed with the client (to access prod DB) and then client keeps chasing for results treating it as a mini project. this brings more headache than any thing. no wonder your manager did not want to rock the boat. for the credit claim, it is very common at this point. manager takes all the credit no matter what.

Last edited by Eddy : 27th July 2023 at 13:54. Reason: Quoting a large post hampers readability
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Old 15th August 2023, 00:01   #1361
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

Can ChatGPT take away programming jobs, I have been saying no in recent years. Here is more proof.

https://www.indiatoday.in/technology...614-2023-08-14

Quote:
  • A study conducted by Purdue University revealed that ChatGPT answered 52 per cent of software engineering questions inaccurately
  • 77 per cent of responses were deemed 'verbose'.
  • The study found that the chatbot struggled to understand the concept behind the questions and had limited reasoning abilities.

Last edited by Samurai : 15th August 2023 at 00:08.
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Old 15th August 2023, 05:54   #1362
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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You were lucky my friend. Myself, and several friends who tried such antics at indian MNC's were given bad ratings and eased out of our projects for rocking the boat.
Oh yeah, I remember doing an excel macro automation for a data reconciliation back in the day. It took away the whole week's 'month end' activites. I was a greenhorn and that recon was the only activity assigned to me. It had taken three months. But, I was summarily rolled off for being unprofessional.

It did feel bad but it I don't regret it. I moved to a better project. The same macro skills that I had acquired doing the automation helped me. I became SPOC for a critical PMO task and my code was reused by many other teams as a baseline to automate their own PMO activities.

If you're a coder, never think twice about doing such stuff. One way or the other, there is no point getting stuck in doing manually repetitive jobs. What you do adds up eventually if you zoom out a little on the career timeline.
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Old 16th August 2023, 11:56   #1363
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Can ChatGPT take away programming jobs, I have been saying no in recent years. Here is more proof.

https://www.indiatoday.in/technology...614-2023-08-14
While you may be correct (for now), I wouldn't use this study as a great example to support your position, because:

1. They used ChatGPT 3.5, not the much improved Bing-powered 4.0 version, nor the newly introduced and optimized "Code Interpreter" by MS.

2. The paper states "we asked participants about their familiarity with SO and ChatGPT by asking how often they use them. They self-reported this by answering multiple-choice questions with 5 options— Never, Seldom, Some of the Time, Very Often, and All the Time.

For SO, 4 participants answered all the time, 5 answered very often, 2 answered some of the time, and 1 answered seldom.

For ChatGPT, 3 answered very often, 3 answered some of the time, 2 answered seldom, and 4 answered never."



Also, while on the topic of AI... this might be an interesting read: https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/automating-creativity which states:

"To be clear, there is no one definition of creativity, but researchers have developed a number of flawed tests that are widely used to measure the ability of humans to come up with diverse and meaningful ideas. The fact that these tests were flawed wasn’t that big a deal until, suddenly, AIs were able to pass all of them. But now, GPT-4 beats 91% of humans on the a variation of the Alternative Uses Test for creativity and exceeds 99% of people on the Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking. We are running out of creativity tests that AIs cannot ace."

Last edited by NewUser123 : 16th August 2023 at 12:03.
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Old 16th August 2023, 12:31   #1364
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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While you may be correct (for now), I wouldn't use this study as a great example to support your position
I have an original position which is not based on this study. I have discussed it here, here and here.

AI companies keep thinking they can replace service jobs, while not really understanding what service companies actually do.
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Old 16th August 2023, 14:42   #1365
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Re: Jobs, Attrition & Layoffs in IT companies

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Can ChatGPT take away programming jobs, I have been saying no in recent years.
Can ChatGPT take away the job of a single programmer? No.

Can ChatGPT take away the job of many programmers? Yes. If a programmer/tester productivity increases by 25% by using AI tools, a company would need 25% less number of programmers for the same amount of work.

The assumption that the amount of IT work will keep increasing to match the improvement in productivity is just that, an assumption.

Last edited by DigitalOne : 16th August 2023 at 14:54. Reason: Missed a word
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