[aadix]

Originally Posted by Mohnish

Don't know about fitting a sunroof, never heard of it being done on a Scorp. Where have you heard of it being done? Its a great idea, however people who have had it done on other cars have complaints of leaks during rains.

on my last trip to vijaywada, which is a town in andhra pradesh, had seen a white vlx on display at the hotel i was staying.

it had a webasto sunroof, fitted by the dealers itself (dealer name: garapati garage)

it didnt have the dual a/c, which afaik i know is an option and not std fitment even in the vlx. atleast in A.P it isnt.


and as far as the sealing with the glue gun is done properly, there shouldnt be any leakage.

[Mohnish]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

it makes sense only in one point of view: mahindra A.S.S want to make maximum profit....

That too, however, there is another valid point of view which I subscribe to. How does a company (in this case M&M) assure warranty unless they have some kind of control over where and what people do with/to their cars...You can't have a roadside mech do some trial and error experiment on your car, fry the ECM, and then go back to the company claiming warranty. I agree, there is a way around this, but then that would leave a lot of room for arguement and I doubt the manufaturers would like that.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

...i dont think TPMS sensors are related to the ABS in any way...

No they are not, however, the alloys are of a specific weight and that does contribute to the response of the tyres on the road which in turn would result in the wheels locking at a specific rate of decceleration (depending on road condition), which would result in the ABS getting activated. So, yes there is a link between the alloys and the ABS, hence the void of warranty if you fidget with the unapproved alloys.

Which again goes back to what I said in the first place...How does a company assure warranty ...? What would you do if you had to decide the warranty policy for the manufacturer's point of view?

Having said all that...I personally would love it if I could do whatever upgrades I wanted and still not lose my warranty!!!

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Mohnish

That too, however, there is another valid point of view which I subscribe to. How does a company (in this case M&M) assure warranty unless they have some kind of control over where and what people do with/to their cars...You can't have a roadside mech do some trial and error experiment on your car, fry the ECM, and then go back to the company claiming warranty. I agree, there is a way around this, but then that would leave a lot of room for arguement and I doubt the manufaturers would like that.

thats true. but the mahindra A.S.S here declined to fit even "genuine" mahindra alloys on my scorpio at their own A.S.S!!!

No they are not, however, the alloys are of a specific weight and that does contribute to the response of the tyres on the road which in turn would result in the wheels locking at a specific rate of decceleration (depending on road condition), which would result in the ABS getting activated. So, yes there is a link between the alloys and the ABS, hence the void of warranty if you fidget with the unapproved alloys.

i agree. but i have seen many cars with ABS with aftermarket alloys, especially swifts. so does the same happen in maruti too?

[anupmathur]

I cannot understand how the ABS would be affected by the alloy wheels (weight/size).
The wheel speed sensors only need to know when a wheel has 'locked' and then initiate the process of preventing a lock from staying locked.
A wheel reaching 'lock' earlier or later during acceleration or deceleration cannot hamper the functioning of the system.

Anyone?

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

I cannot understand how the ABS would be affected by the alloy wheels (weight/size).
The wheel speed sensors only need to know when a wheel has 'locked' and then initiate the process of preventing a lock from staying locked.
A wheel reaching 'lock' earlier or later during acceleration or deceleration cannot hamper the functioning of the system.

Anyone?

even i feel the same.
as far as i understand the functioning of the ABS, the weight of the alloys is not an issue.

[Mohnish]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

thats true. but the mahindra A.S.S here declined to fit even "genuine" mahindra alloys on my scorpio at their own A.S.S!!!

That sure is wierd Raj, however, I presume these are direction from the manufacturer regards which model gets which alloys / parts. I figure M&M need to keep a check on what the A.S.S. does too! Is the A.S.S. Global? They are pretty good from my experience. Infact much much better than the company owned ones as far as service goes.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

...i agree. but i have seen many cars with ABS with aftermarket alloys, especially swifts. so does the same happen in maruti too?

I wonder...but then, I figure each manufacturer has their own set of rules regards warranties.

Originally Posted by anupmathur

I cannot understand how the ABS would be affected by the alloy wheels (weight/size).
The wheel speed sensors only need to know when a wheel has 'locked' and then initiate the process of preventing a lock from staying locked.
A wheel reaching 'lock' earlier or later during acceleration or deceleration cannot hamper the functioning of the system.

Anyone?

Originally Posted by raj_5004

even i feel the same.
as far as i understand the functioning of the ABS, the weight of the alloys is not an issue.

Anup / Raj, try this scenario....If the after market alloys were much much lighter than the design issue, that would result in less "weight", (very marginal, yes, but still...for the sake of discussion) which would result in the wheels locking earlier than "specified" which would mean the ABS comes on more frequently etc....What say?

I'm not an engineer...whatever knowledge has been self learnt. But I figure there must be a technical reason for this. God!!! I sound like horribly trying to justify myself to wait until the warranty is expired !!! (I just extended the waranty another 2 years/50K)!!!

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Mohnish

That sure is wierd Raj, however, I presume these are direction from the manufacturer regards which model gets which alloys / parts. I figure M&M need to keep a check on what the A.S.S. does too! Is the A.S.S. Global? They are pretty good from my experience. Infact much much better than the company owned ones as far as service goes.

yes, the A.S.S is global gallarie. infact this was when i bought the car from them, 1 year back. they clearly said, it would void the warranty. even in getsurya's case, the A.S.S initially declined to fit the same mahindra genuine alloys. but with some pressure from above (!!), they agreed.

Anup / Raj, try this scenario....If the after market alloys were much much lighter than the design issue, that would result in less "weight", (very marginal, yes, but still...for the sake of discussion) which would result in the wheels locking earlier than "specified" which would mean the ABS comes on more frequently etc....What say?

i think it does not work this way. the wheel speed sensors on the ABS system senses whichever wheel is about to lock (irrespective of the wheel model or weight) & commands the ECU accordingly. if the wheel is lighter, it will show more chances to lock up which will also be sensed by the sensors. there is no specific adjustment done to the ABS system depending on the wheel model or weight, as far as i know. because ABS systems work under varied conditions such as slipping of tyres due to ice, gravel, oil, water or just hard braking. the wheel lock up rate under different conditions will be different.

[vinaydas]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

yes, the A.S.S is global gallarie. infact this was when i bought the car from them, 1 year back. they clearly said, it would void the warranty. even in getsurya's case, the A.S.S initially declined to fit the same mahindra genuine alloys. but with some pressure from above (!!), they agreed.




i think it does not work this way. the wheel speed sensors on the ABS system senses whichever wheel is about to lock (irrespective of the wheel model or weight) & commands the ECU accordingly. if the wheel is lighter, it will show more chances to lock up which will also be sensed by the sensors. there is no specific adjustment done to the ABS system depending on the wheel model or weight, as far as i know. because ABS systems work under varied conditions such as slipping of tyres due to ice, gravel, oil, water or just hard braking. the wheel lock up rate under different conditions will be different.

i think you have got a bit confused with abs and traction control/ESP
abs's job is to stop wheel from locking up after the car touches speeds above 15kms for safety reasons.Regardless of condition,let it be ice,water or oil they wont allow the wheel to lock up.
esp/traction control will limit the power to that particular wheel if it senses there is loss of power.This is where the ecu is probably involved . Im not sure about abs,maybe except for the speed above 15kms thingy.

[raj_5004]

i understand that vinay. what i meant was that rate of locking of wheels under braking will be different in ice, gravel, oil or normal concrete roads. on ice, it will slip faster or even under moderate braking whereas on concrete roads, it will slip much later.
so i think ABS sensors are not tuned for any specific wheel weight or make.

[anupmathur]

By all logic, the ABS is not at all affected by change in wheel weight. The differences are small and less than just ONE additional occupant in the car!
Does any manufacturer limit the number of people/baggage you carry?

[breezydrive]

Yeah, ABS's functionality should not get affected by change in wheel weight. Technically, Suppose one of the tyres running on low pressure would mean more rolling resistance, which is as good as a heavier wheel, doesn't affect the ABS.

[getsurya]

hi Guys,

PFA the M&M certificate for my Scorpio's mileage winning feat of 22.06 kmpl!!

Mods, if this is the wrong area for my post kindly delete.

[anupmathur]

Congrats, Surya!
They're giving just a citation? No accessory or toy?

[Mohnish]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

By all logic, the ABS is not at all affected by change in wheel weight. The differences are small and less than just ONE additional occupant in the car!
Does any manufacturer limit the number of people/baggage you carry?

Agreed big time . End of discussion. We should be allowed to changed the alloys as long as rim size remains the same.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Mohnish

Agreed big time . End of discussion. We should be allowed to changed the alloys as long as rim size remains the same.

Thanks, Mohnish.
Though even rim size being increased should not affect the performance of the ABS.
I am of the firm view that having large offsets is very likely to over-stress the wheel bearings and suspension components. Wheels jutting out always mean 'cantilevered' forces which are multiples of the normal forces!
The ABS would not be materially affected even in such cases.