[nowwhat?]

Originally Posted by govigov

3. Open an account with SAS online / zerodha for day trading because of low brokerage charges

Thanks, I visited both after seeing your post and am quite impressed by Zerodha. They seem to have a bunch of interfaces and a few of those (especially Pi) are very advanced.

While zero brokerage for delivery is enticing, I was wondering if there are any hidden charges, for instance demat AMC or any other demat charges? After going through their website, I am aware of the Rs. 9 per instant transfer of funds through the payment gateway (NEFT is still free), but there is nothing about demat charges (perhaps it is because the demat account is with IL&FS). Can anyone who has an account with them clarify?

PS: Just found out that demat charges for IL&FS are Rs. 400 a year.
http://support.zerodha.com/kb/faq.php?id=110

[S_U_N]

Originally Posted by govigov

Thank you, nowwhat?


There is no complete all in one financial solution

1. For all mutual funds, recommendation is to invest directly with AMC. Open with fundsindia/mfuindia if required.
2. Open an account with motilal oswal for IPO's (It also supports other options)
3. Open an account with SAS online / zerodha for day trading because of low brokerage charges
.

Just a small note. You could use FundsIndia for your stocks. I don't do trading, so I don't remember their charges. For investment purpose, the charges are very nominal.

In other news, I came across this new article from Value Research.
https://www.valueresearchonline.com/....asp?str=31049

Does anyone here agree on the 'moat' aspect of those three companies?

[nowwhat?]

Originally Posted by S_U_N

In other news, I came across this new article from Value Research.
https://www.valueresearchonline.com/....asp?str=31049

Does anyone here agree on the 'moat' aspect of those three companies?

Well the VR article refers to these companies as having high RoA and the moat aspect is secondary.

Purely from the concept of moat or wide-moat, I doubt any of these (four, actually) fit the definition. Moat companies are those that have deep pockets (because of sustained profitability over several years) due to a competitive advantage (usually because of economies of scale, R&D, government monopoly) that not many new entrants can easily usurp their position unless the market itself is disrupted.

Warren Buffet invested in a number of wide-moat companies like Coca Cola and Gillette early on, but then his insurance companies had the ability to get increasing investible income over several decades from insurance spread.

Let's look at 3 of these companies:

Bajaj sells Almond Drop Oil in sachets and has 58% market share in light hair oil. On that basis, does it translate into a moat? I doubt.

La Opala according to the article is the first tableware brand that Indians feel proud of (probably because it is Indian). Does it translate into a moat? Again doubtful as the company is competing with cheap Chinese imports and established global companies like Luminarc.

ITC which derives around half its revenues from cigarettes may have been qualified as a wide-moat company a few decades ago, but not only is it facing competition from Marlboro of Philip Morris but it also has to contend with a government that wants to cut down on tobacco usage. In other segments such as biscuits, candy, shampoo, hotels, etc., ITC faces stiff competition from other established players and is not in the pole position in those segments.

That's not to say that wide-moat companies don't exist in India. Off the top of my head, companies like PowerGrid, 3M India, Gillette India, P&G India, maybe BHEL, Coal India, TCS/Infosys, Adani, HPCL/BPCL, other PSUs come to mind.

[murillo]

Originally Posted by govigov

If one decides to start to work on the stock market, then he needs to open a demat account. What is the preferred service provider in this area? Icicidirect / motilaloswal, etc? Are there any pros and cons by going for a particular provider?

Originally Posted by S_U_N

Just a small note. You could use FundsIndia for your stocks. I don't do trading, so I don't remember their charges. For investment purpose, the charges are very nominal.

@govigov: To invest in stocks, you need a bank account, demat account, and trading account. Some banks give all-in-one account, but they are pricey. The price is what you pay for the convenience of investing into everything at one place, e.g., at ICICIdirect, you can invest in stocks, mutual funds, IPOs, insurance, Fx and I think, but not sure, in bonds, gold, PPF, NPS, FDs, etc. You can conveniently transfer funds from your bank account to stock trading account instantaneously.

What you choose depends on what you want to do. Up front, be clear on what you want, such as where you want to invest, what kind of investor you are, etc.

I have a FundsIndia trading account.

The account opening is free.

Brokerage rate is Rs. 25/- or 30 paise per Rs. 100/- each of the transaction value (effectively, a 0.30% fee), whichever is higher.

A transaction value below Rs. 8,000/- will incur a charge of Rs. 25/-. A transaction value above Rs. 8000/- will incur a charge at 30 paise per Rs. 100/- each of the transaction value (effectively, a 0.30% fee).

Standard SEBI charges for every transaction are extra.

Demat maintenance fee is Rs. 200/- + service tax per year, which is waived off for the 1st year.

Additionally, a demat debit transaction will incur a fee of Rs. 10/- + taxes.

FundsIndia don't provide options and derivatives trading.

[govigov]

Originally Posted by murillo

What you choose depends on what you want to do. Up front, be clear on what you want, such as where you want to invest, what kind of investor you are, etc.

Thank you for your advice, I am planning to invest in some of the stocks of the maharatna companies and if a good IPO comes along, then invest in them as well. The stocks are to be kept for long term. Like 10 years or more and add to the portfolio in between.

At this point I am not sure if I will look at short term holdings.

I am a looking for a service that is reliable in the long run and offers the best value and services for the cost given. A VFM offering. I understand that the charges may be recurring yearly, and hence the costs may add up.

No active day trade for now, so I think sasonline and zerodha can wait until I become more adept.

So, I think, something like motilaloswal or RKSV might be suitable.

What do you think, is it a bad move? Did I miss something?

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Whats the take on spicejet? I see random comments everywhere and hence wanted to ask here. Currently with a gain of 10% with one block of shares 75% with another block of shares. Should I hold on or is this a good time to dispose some of them? ...

Some days back, I got a buy call on Spicejet from my brokerage firm (Sharewealth). Buy @ 70 and target is 120 with a time frame of 6m-1year. I have generally seen their delivery calls hitting the target and hence bought some at that price.

[sukhoi]

Originally Posted by govigov

Thank you for your advice, I am planning to invest in some of the stocks of the maharatna companies and if a good IPO comes along, then invest in them as well. The stocks are to be kept for long term. Like 10 years or more and add to the portfolio in between.

At this point I am not sure if I will look at short term holdings.

I am a looking for a service that is reliable in the long run and offers the best value and services for the cost given. A VFM offering. I understand that the charges may be recurring yearly, and hence the costs may add up.

No active day trade for now, so I think sasonline and zerodha can wait until I become more adept.

So, I think, something like motilaloswal or RKSV might be suitable.

What do you think, is it a bad move? Did I miss something?

I would recommend you to take a look at zerodha as well. For long term investing, they are very good IMHO. They offer zero brokerage for delivery based trades (investing). I do not have this account yet but what I hear from friends is that the brokerage is almost zero (maybe they need to charge a very basis INR 0.01 brokerage). They do not currently allow for IPOs but are working on getting that also into their fold. Take a look if it meets your needs as well. From brokerage perspective I am told that it is the cheapest in the market today (based on what I have heard from friends who were looking to open accounts some time back).

Cheers,
S

[murillo]

Originally Posted by govigov

Thank you for your advice,
What do you think, is it a bad move? Did I miss something?

I assume motilaloswal and RKSV are full service brokers.

Discount brokers will be cheaper than full service brokers.

For going full service, see if you need those additional services.

If you can manage on your own, then discount brokers will suffice.

You can use a discount broker for any investment activity, not necessarily day trading or short-term trading.

If you are looking at IPOs, then choose one that provides the option to apply for IPOs within its web site itself. Else you may have to do some paperwork to apply in IPOs.

[sukhoi]

Came across this article which makes for good reading, Taxing dividends can lead to unintended consequences.

On a related note, SEBI has come out with a policy directing top 500 listed companies to have a dividend distribution policy in place, Top 500 listed cos to have dividend distribution policy.

Cheers,
S

[spookey]

Originally Posted by murillo

I assume motilaloswal and RKSV are full service brokers.

Motilal oswal is a full service broker while RKSV is a discount broker. You are right, using a discount broker makes a lot of sense. I am trading for a living and i have had huge savings by using a discount broker than a full service broker.

[manduvindupondu]

@spookey, need your advice.
Do you do technical analysis and trade? If so what are the good starting points/books/resources
Do you trade options too (Index/Stock/Currency (USD-INR))?
We can discuss some strategies.

[S_U_N]

One note on FundsIndia.
Their portal does not take care of changes such as bonus shared etc. automatically.

I got bonus shares credited on 13 and as of today the portal shows me bonus share count properly, but they have erroneously doubled the investment amount as well. This makes my returns -ve. In contrast, I am tracking my portfolio with VP and they had no issues in handling this automatically. Very impressed with VP and very disappointed with FI's unsophisticated approach.

[cooolsunny]

Originally Posted by nowwhat?

Thanks, I visited both after seeing your post and am quite impressed by Zerodha. They seem to have a bunch of interfaces and a few of those (especially Pi) are very advanced.

While zero brokerage for delivery is enticing, I was wondering if there are any hidden charges, for instance demat AMC or any other demat charges? After going through their website, I am aware of the Rs. 9 per instant transfer of funds through the payment gateway (NEFT is still free), but there is nothing about demat charges (perhaps it is because the demat account is with IL&FS). Can anyone who has an account with them clarify?

PS: Just found out that demat charges for IL&FS are Rs. 400 a year.
http://support.zerodha.com/kb/faq.php?id=110

I trade with zerodha since last one year, only because of cheap rates. its not that they are exceptionally good or something. Softwares/interface that they provide are in development phase and just ok( I have used odin and nest before). PI have some so called AI features but to do any real analysis/system trading u need proper software like amibroker. Also U need lots of luck to get a call through their call and trade desk. mostly because you need it when connectivity issues arise and all the clients need it right then.
I have no experience with other penny brokers but If you are not at screen the whole time you should consider some brokers which provides you a RM.
as far as I know these guys have their own depository now and there is annual maintenance fee as with all the other brokerages.
overall I would say go for penny brokers only if you trade heavily/fulltime.
there is one problem with RMs i.e. they try to influence you into buying something that their firms want you to buy, simply ignore all those calls.

[cooolsunny]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Whats the take on spicejet? I see random comments everywhere and hence wanted to ask here. Currently with a gain of 10% with one block of shares 75% with another block of shares. Should I hold on or is this a good time to dispose some of them?

And if I am interested to invest a small amount of money every month(say around 10k) which are the ones to look out for in the next month? Not expecting huge short term gains but something in the greener side would be great.

Aviation business has not been a consistent money making business. Crude prices helped aviation companies a lot. Stock has already given multibagger returns, chances for further growth are bleak. It will keep tempting the retail investors for a long time but real long term return may not be there.

[inder]

Is it a good time to buy Sun Pharma from a loooong term perspective?