Unintentional bias on this forum?

hell_rider · 3rd June 2005, 12:22

while i mean no disrespect ...

i can't help but get a feeling that there exists a certain bias for and against certain manufacturers, however mild and unintentional.

for e.g. hyundai has been on the receiving end for "copying" design cues....lot of negative comments. however, this does not seem to be the case with swift / mini similarities. while there is a thread on the similarities, there do not seem to be any negative comments as such.

similarly fiat vs. mitsubushi.

both parent companies are in miserable financial woes. mitsubishi is the only japanese car maker to consistently notch up losses (4'th year in a row ?) . By admission of forum members, the build quality of the lancer has dropped down to pathetic levels. also (in the last how many years ? ) , mitsubishi still has just ONE single model it sells, with variants of course. additionally, the model it sells in india is far outdated compared to the lancers it sells abroad. the EVO has not seen the light of the day in india. inspite of having SUV's in its line-up (AirTrek is it ?) mitsubishi does not seem to inclined to launch it in the indian market, or for that matter, any other model.

still, very surprisingly, while there are fiat detractors a dime a dozen, i don't see anywhere the equivalent of members expressing reservations about going in for a mitsubishi, even though its indian partner, HM, is the motor industry equivalent of a dinosaur.

intention not to provoke a flame war, but anyone else feels the same way ? and if yes, why is this so ?

typeOnegative · 3rd June 2005, 12:31

I agree with you hell_rider. However, as I have pointed out somewhere else, I think it is the most vocal members who are getting their views across. The others just clam up. Which is why you will find a lot of Fiat owners extremely defensive. The Hyundai owners have started waking up now and putting out the merits of their choice. I don't think the bias is with the majority.

Also do consider the fact that if some one actaully hates Hyundai/Fiat/Mercedes etc it is thier own business. What me worry?

Montoya · 3rd June 2005, 12:33

Well Hell rider this is a forum and different people have different opinions. As far as the Hyundai design is copied it is clearly visible. Even ACI says about it. But the Swift hardly looks like Mini. Headlamps are so different but hyundai seems to have sourced the Lights directly from Jaguar

Abhay · 3rd June 2005, 12:36

agree typeO....I own a Tata vehicle and most of those "vocal" members dislike Tata intensely ....but why do I actually care...its only that you need to be objective when it comes to your own vehicle or a manufacturer you like.
of course if someone makes prejudiced and untrue claims they need to be disputed but in a civilised manner which does happen ...for the most part

tsk1979 · 3rd June 2005, 12:38

Mitsubishi is ignored on this forum hehe. Search for posts relating to lancer and you will know. I doubt people find it important enough to hate even. As for Hyundai vs Maruti, the hatred stems from adverts
Namely these
1. Santro owners are more educated.
2. Santro owners are more computer savvy
3. Santro owners go abroad more.
These ads started the tide. The message sent out was. "all you other hatchback owners you are uneducated bumbling idiots, santro people are superior".
So the hatred cascaded into the ripple affect. Anything hyundai does now will be seen with hate tinted glassed. If they introduce a new car, people will find defects in it. It could be looks, it could be power

Coming to maruti. Maruti was a manufacturer who did nothing except sell outdated products, but gave excellent service. The other point was that maruti made the esteem and zen, both of which are hot favs with modders due to power. Since people on car forums are mostly bhp enthusiasts, these gestures make them overlook all the negatives.
Hyundai's kissa kursi ka campaign was purely factual. They listed cars which were 4 seaters. That also backfired. In india people don't like ads which attack. Hyundai has constantly attacked. Sometimes with derogatery ads like education and financial status. So naturally there comes a hatred among people.
But still when it comes out to shelling the money, people go for the santro accent. So the hatred is more in the vocal category rather than the actual category.

Steeroid · 3rd June 2005, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Also do consider the fact that if some one actaully hates Hyundai/Fiat/Mercedes etc it is thier own business. What me worry?

Yes, me worry because we are all members of the forum. The image the forum projects to the world outside is a reflection of the posts here, which is a sum total of our opinions - if some or all the members show bias, the forum will be viewed as biased and vice versa.

This place is what we all make of it, so we must worry if someone perceives a certain tilt in its opinions.

typeOnegative · 3rd June 2005, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Yes, me worry because we are all members of the forum. ....
This place is what we all make of it, so we must worry if someone perceives a certain tilt in its opinions.

Well, good for you and for the forum. Wish we had more members like you.

RX135 · 3rd June 2005, 12:53

In any public forum, there will be certain bias based on personal experiences/opinions and you just can not avoid it. I think, readers will have to take it with a pinch of salt.

Shan2nu · 3rd June 2005, 13:32

Dude, show me one forum, magazine or TV program which isn't biased. Overdrive was accused of being bias towards TATA. Top Gear hates Hyundai (more than any one over here).

It's even more evident in forums. Maybe we don't accused Mitsubishi as much as we do to Fiat but, how many people here would buy a Lancer over a Palio 1.6? I wouldn't.

A simple search will show you that we have far more threads that praise Fiat cars than the ones that praise HM/Mitsubhishi.

Shan2nu

Shan2nu · 3rd June 2005, 13:36

Why don't you go to this page and check out my post. I posted that at 12:19 today which was before you posted your "bias based thread" at 12:22.

The car manufacturer i hate

Shan2nu

Rtech · 3rd June 2005, 13:47

If a bias is perceived, what's wrong with that? It is not because one company has paid off certain people to bad mouth the others or praise its own product (which may be thought of other commercial publictions).

The great thing about an open forum like this is that is gives everyone a chance to voice their own opinions. If, by some chance, majority of those opinions appear to favour a particular product or conversely appear to dislike another product, so be it. Personal likes and dislikes do not always have to have a rational reason behind it.

If, as hell_rider says, he feels Mitsubishi gets away easy while Fiat gets the brunt of it here, well that's the reality. Fiat should try and figure out why it is so (one reason could be that people are a lot more passionate about Fiat while Mitsubishi flies under the radar here?!). To tell our members to criticise/praise all companies equally is not the answer.

We cannot force people to be completly impartial in order to project a fairer image to the outside world. That is hypocritical.

deepakhon · 3rd June 2005, 14:06

I guess it is perfectly right to have an opinion about anything. If someone loves Hyundai cars, so be it. I love my Palio, in what way would it affect anyone else? Since there are many members having their own preferences, there are bound to be differences in their opinions. What's the big deal in there? Yes, I too sometimes feel bad when somebody tries to tell something which I already know; i.e., Fiat in India is doing badly and there is no doubt about that. It is because I own their product that I feel bad when somebody says something bad about it. But this sense of being let down is momentary. I know no one is hurting me here and they are just stating their opinions. I always believe difference of opinion is definitely better. It helps us see many other points which we would have otherwise missed because we see and perceive certain things in our own way.

Steeroid · 3rd June 2005, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

We cannot force people to be completly impartial in order to project a fairer image to the outside world. That is hypocritical.

No we cannot, but we could encourage a more moderate view of things. There is blind adulation and/or hatred for certain manufacturers which should be discouraged. There will always be a gentle bias in any forum, but that shouldnt turn into a rabid and almost fanatical one.

Shan2nu · 3rd June 2005, 14:12

Quote:

No we cannot, but we could encourage a more moderate view of things.

Who according to you is "We"? We make team-bhp and team-bhp is us. So, who's to tell who?

Shan2nu

Rtech · 3rd June 2005, 14:20

Quote:

There will always be a gentle bias in any forum, but that shouldnt turn into a rabid and almost fanatical one.

True, and I think Team-BHP is doing pretty well in this regard, barring the occasional outburst.

Quote:

Who according to you is "We"? We make team-bhp and team-bhp is us.

You asked and answered your own question.

3rd June 2005, 12:22	#1
hell_rider BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 538 Thanked: 61 Times	Unintentional bias on this forum? while i mean no disrespect ... i can't help but get a feeling that there exists a certain bias for and against certain manufacturers, however mild and unintentional. for e.g. hyundai has been on the receiving end for "copying" design cues....lot of negative comments. however, this does not seem to be the case with swift / mini similarities. while there is a thread on the similarities, there do not seem to be any negative comments as such. similarly fiat vs. mitsubushi. both parent companies are in miserable financial woes. mitsubishi is the only japanese car maker to consistently notch up losses (4'th year in a row ?) . By admission of forum members, the build quality of the lancer has dropped down to pathetic levels. also (in the last how many years ? ) , mitsubishi still has just ONE single model it sells, with variants of course. additionally, the model it sells in india is far outdated compared to the lancers it sells abroad. the EVO has not seen the light of the day in india. inspite of having SUV's in its line-up (AirTrek is it ?) mitsubishi does not seem to inclined to launch it in the indian market, or for that matter, any other model. still, very surprisingly, while there are fiat detractors a dime a dozen, i don't see anywhere the equivalent of members expressing reservations about going in for a mitsubishi, even though its indian partner, HM, is the motor industry equivalent of a dinosaur. intention not to provoke a flame war, but anyone else feels the same way ? and if yes, why is this so ?
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 12:31	#2
typeOnegative Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India Posts: 1,503 Thanked: 27 Times	I agree with you hell_rider. However, as I have pointed out somewhere else, I think it is the most vocal members who are getting their views across. The others just clam up. Which is why you will find a lot of Fiat owners extremely defensive. The Hyundai owners have started waking up now and putting out the merits of their choice. I don't think the bias is with the majority. Also do consider the fact that if some one actaully hates Hyundai/Fiat/Mercedes etc it is thier own business. What me worry?
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 12:33	#3
Montoya BANNED Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Best City In India Mumbai Posts: 665 Thanked: 0 Times	Different opinions Well Hell rider this is a forum and different people have different opinions. As far as the Hyundai design is copied it is clearly visible. Even ACI says about it. But the Swift hardly looks like Mini. Headlamps are so different but hyundai seems to have sourced the Lights directly from Jaguar
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 12:36	#4
Abhay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 727 Thanked: 11 Times	agree typeO....I own a Tata vehicle and most of those "vocal" members dislike Tata intensely ....but why do I actually care...its only that you need to be objective when it comes to your own vehicle or a manufacturer you like. of course if someone makes prejudiced and untrue claims they need to be disputed but in a civilised manner which does happen ...for the most part
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 12:38	#5
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	Mitsubishi is ignored on this forum hehe. Search for posts relating to lancer and you will know. I doubt people find it important enough to hate even. As for Hyundai vs Maruti, the hatred stems from adverts Namely these 1. Santro owners are more educated. 2. Santro owners are more computer savvy 3. Santro owners go abroad more. These ads started the tide. The message sent out was. "all you other hatchback owners you are uneducated bumbling idiots, santro people are superior". So the hatred cascaded into the ripple affect. Anything hyundai does now will be seen with hate tinted glassed. If they introduce a new car, people will find defects in it. It could be looks, it could be power Coming to maruti. Maruti was a manufacturer who did nothing except sell outdated products, but gave excellent service. The other point was that maruti made the esteem and zen, both of which are hot favs with modders due to power. Since people on car forums are mostly bhp enthusiasts, these gestures make them overlook all the negatives. Hyundai's kissa kursi ka campaign was purely factual. They listed cars which were 4 seaters. That also backfired. In india people don't like ads which attack. Hyundai has constantly attacked. Sometimes with derogatery ads like education and financial status. So naturally there comes a hatred among people. But still when it comes out to shelling the money, people go for the santro accent. So the hatred is more in the vocal category rather than the actual category.
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 12:53	#8
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	In any public forum, there will be certain bias based on personal experiences/opinions and you just can not avoid it. I think, readers will have to take it with a pinch of salt.
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 13:32	#9
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Dude, show me one forum, magazine or TV program which isn't biased. Overdrive was accused of being bias towards TATA. Top Gear hates Hyundai (more than any one over here). It's even more evident in forums. Maybe we don't accused Mitsubishi as much as we do to Fiat but, how many people here would buy a Lancer over a Palio 1.6? I wouldn't. A simple search will show you that we have far more threads that praise Fiat cars than the ones that praise HM/Mitsubhishi. Shan2nu Last edited by Shan2nu : 3rd June 2005 at 13:33.
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 13:36	#10
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Why don't you go to this page and check out my post. I posted that at 12:19 today which was before you posted your "bias based thread" at 12:22. The car manufacturer i hate Shan2nu Last edited by Shan2nu : 3rd June 2005 at 13:57.
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 13:47	#11
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 359 Times View My Garage	If a bias is perceived, what's wrong with that? It is not because one company has paid off certain people to bad mouth the others or praise its own product (which may be thought of other commercial publictions). The great thing about an open forum like this is that is gives everyone a chance to voice their own opinions. If, by some chance, majority of those opinions appear to favour a particular product or conversely appear to dislike another product, so be it. Personal likes and dislikes do not always have to have a rational reason behind it. If, as hell_rider says, he feels Mitsubishi gets away easy while Fiat gets the brunt of it here, well that's the reality. Fiat should try and figure out why it is so (one reason could be that people are a lot more passionate about Fiat while Mitsubishi flies under the radar here?!). To tell our members to criticise/praise all companies equally is not the answer. We cannot force people to be completly impartial in order to project a fairer image to the outside world. That is hypocritical.
	() Thanks

3rd June 2005, 14:06	#12
deepakhon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,441 Thanked: 65 Times	I guess it is perfectly right to have an opinion about anything. If someone loves Hyundai cars, so be it. I love my Palio, in what way would it affect anyone else? Since there are many members having their own preferences, there are bound to be differences in their opinions. What's the big deal in there? Yes, I too sometimes feel bad when somebody tries to tell something which I already know; i.e., Fiat in India is doing badly and there is no doubt about that. It is because I own their product that I feel bad when somebody says something bad about it. But this sense of being let down is momentary. I know no one is hurting me here and they are just stating their opinions. I always believe difference of opinion is definitely better. It helps us see many other points which we would have otherwise missed because we see and perceive certain things in our own way.
	() Thanks