[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ebonho

However, @samurai , most of the videos on IF specifically talk about breakfast being the meal to be skipped.

I read this as the result of a long study done on IF. Best results come if dinner is skipped. I can't find that link now. Besides, even my mother says that according to old traditions, fasting is best done by skipping dinner. She stopped having dinner many years ago. She doesn't eat after 5pm at all. She is 82.

Look at the recommendation from this Harvard Study:

Time-restricted feeding—Following a meal plan each day with a designated time frame for fasting. Example: Meals are eaten from 8am-3pm, with fasting during the remaining hours of the day.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

@graaja I know you suggested peanut butter sandwiches and bananas before the ride and eating during the ride, but I did not want to break the 16 hour fasted window. Need to re-think. Definitely for the weekend long ride. Where I want to go both long and hard.

I could go strong till 80+ kms (was averaging close to 24 throughut). Then started flagging, and at 100 km my average had fallen to 23.1. But the time I reached home, it had dropped further in the next 15 km to end at 22.8.

...

However, @samurai , most of the videos on IF specifically talk about breakfast being the meal to be skipped...

By the way, today completes Week #2 of IF, and I've lost 4 kilos (86 from 90+). Is that on schedule?

Workout in the fasted state needs proper planning and training the body. A few guidelines.

1. Start slow and adapt the body before doing long workouts. My suggestion would be to limit fasted state workouts to 1 hour in the beginning and gradually increase over a few months.
2. You cannot do long fasted workouts in higher intensity. Once your heart rate goes into Z3, body will need energy from glycogen. So, even if you get used to long workouts in fasted state, these have to be in Z2 or less. If you want to do faster rides then either train to improve your FTP (functional threshold power) and ride at 70% of FTP which will be in Z2, or ride slow
3. Even if you do longer workouts in Z2 and train your body to burn fat, you still need to replace electrolytes lost through sweat. I usually use 2 Fast and Up Reload tablets with a pinch of salt mixed in 600ml of water for every hour. These tablets have very low energy (12 calorie each) and combined with the activity should not break fast, but will replenish the depleted electrolytes. This is very essential to prevent cramps.

Regarding which meal to skip, most of the videos I watched suggest to choose the window depending on your lifestyle and which meal is convenient to skip. So, I chose breakfast as it was more convenient for me. As Samurai has suggested, you could also experiment with skipping dinner. Choose the one that suits your lifestyle.

4 kilos in 2 weeks is a good start. Keep up the effort

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I read this as the result of a long study done on IF. Best results come if dinner is skipped. I can't find that link now. Besides, even my mother says that according to old traditions, fasting is best done by skipping dinner. She stopped having dinner many years ago. She doesn't eat after 5pm at all. She is 82.

Look at the recommendation from this Harvard Study:

Time-restricted feeding—Following a meal plan each day with a designated time frame for fasting. Example: Meals are eaten from 8am-3pm, with fasting during the remaining hours of the day.

Thanks buddy. Something new for me to read up on. My cook and my mom are going to go nutters! LOL Just when I've made a big som=ng and dance about detailed list on what can be eaten (list of veggies) and what absolutely cannot.

Sorry about the b2b. I actually made the second post after coming back from lunch, so the time window had long since expired.

Originally Posted by graaja

Workout in the fasted state needs proper planning and training the body. A few guidelines.

1. Start slow and adapt the body before doing long workouts. My suggestion would be to limit fasted state workouts to 1 hour in the beginning and gradually increase over a few months.

Woah! I've been doing 1:45 weekday rides from day 1. Its when I stretched from 40 to 60 km (and then 100+) that the issues happened.

2. You cannot do long fasted workouts in higher intensity. Once your heart rate goes into Z3, body will need energy from glycogen. So, even if you get used to long workouts in fasted state, these have to be in Z2 or less. If you want to do faster rides then either train to improve your FTP (functional threshold power) and ride at 70% of FTP which will be in Z2, or ride slow

I am a neanderthal buddy. I don't do heart strap or double tap power core or Garmin or zones. Just me and my bike and lights and a bottle of water for now.

3. Even if you do longer workouts in Z2 and train your body to burn fat, you still need to replace electrolytes lost through sweat. I usually use 2 Fast and Up Reload tablets with a pinch of salt mixed in 600ml of water for every hour. These tablets have very low energy (12 calorie each) and combined with the activity should not break fast, but will replenish the depleted electrolytes. This is very essential to prevent cramps.

Great info. Will take care of this.

Regarding which meal to skip, most of the videos I watched suggest to choose the window depending on your lifestyle and which meal is convenient to skip. So, I chose breakfast as it was more convenient for me. As Samurai has suggested, you could also experiment with skipping dinner. Choose the one that suits your lifestyle.

Breakfast will actually be easier and lighter than the more elaborate dinner. Porridge (in water) and eggs in butter and cheese, with a couple of fried sausages, and a cup of coffee. Any suggestions on how to bulk that up and if needed? Can I have the porridge? Can I have at least one cup of milk coffee (zero sugar) in the day?

Advantages would be morning ride would be at 16 hours of fast instead of the 8-9 currently. Also the no eating after 6 thing.

The flip side is that I am not missing breakfast at all. And I am not flagging in energy either till lunch. In fact I am feeling fresher (as you said)! I don't want to spoil that either ...

Confused now.

4 kilos in 2 weeks is a good start. Keep up the effort

Dying to get back to 80 and then start digging on. Quickly.

Cheers, Doc

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I am a neanderthal buddy. I don't do heart strap or double tap power core or Garmin or zones. Just me and my bike and lights and a bottle of water for now.

Breakfast will actually be easier and lighter than the more elaborate dinner. Porridge (in water) and eggs in butter and cheese, with a couple of fried sausages, and a cup of coffee. Any suggestions on how to bulk that up and if needed? Can I have the porridge? Can I have at least one cup of milk coffee (zero sugar) in the day?

The flip side is that I am not missing breakfast at all. And I am not flagging in energy either till lunch. In fact I am feeling fresher (as you said)! I dont want to spoil that either ....

If you are not using a heart rate monitor, then Z2 would be the effort that you can maintain for many hours together without taking a break. If you are running out of breath or getting fatigued, then you are in Z3 or above.

You can have porridge and coffee with milk. But if you hit a plateau, you may have to cut it out as well.

If breakfast is easier to skip, then you should do that. As I mentioned, you have to choose the window that suits your lifestyle. Otherwise, sustaining will be a problem.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I read this as the result of a long study done on IF. Best results come if dinner is skipped.

If my memory and understanding is right, while going through Dr.Jason Fung's Obesity Code, I recall seeing a chart which showed our body's insulin sensitivity/presence during the day and as per the chart what I've come to comprehend is that it is the least during breakfast time and it is at its highest during dinner time.

So doesn't that mean that breakfast should be the meal that should be skipped or am I looking at things the wrong way?

BTW, Getting back to fasting was harder than I thought, weight went back to 110 kg's courtesy of binge eating, currently nearing 24 hours of fasting and I'm at 107 kg's on the scale.

Have stocked up on Brocolli, Spinach, Apples and Bananas, and got myself a 1200W blender, would be blending all of it to a smoothie to replace breakfast with, which would be my OMAD window of choice as per another podcast I've heard where breakfast was recommended for OMAD favoring brain function.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

BTW, Getting back to fasting was harder than I thought, weight went back to 110 kg's courtesy of binge eating, currently nearing 24 hours of fasting and I'm at 107 kg's on the scale.

This will not help. You need a lifestyle or a routine which is sustainable over long term. More importantly something which you can easily adapt and internalize to your constitution without a second thought.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ampere

This will not help. You need a lifestyle or a routine which is sustainable over long term. More importantly something which you can easily adapt and internalize to your constitution without a second thought.

Thinking along the same lines, the fast would end by tomorrow morning after which I'd be blending greens and low glycemic fruits for breakfast which would be my OMAD regime, I believe its easier to follow and make a habit.

Earlier it was pretty hard to follow a regime as my meals were from restaurants and once in a while the temptation to go off-road would hit hard and I would succumb to it.

Hope things go better this time around.

[dhanushs]

Hi guys, need some clarification on Cholesterol values.

Well, irrespective if I'm on a diet or not, I make sure my diet includes Eggs and Olive Oil. However, a recent Cholesterol checkup throws up readings that my HDL is only 40!

I don't eat any kind of fish. So, what would be ideal to include in the menu?

[bblost]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Hi guys, need some clarification on Cholesterol values.

Well, irrespective if I'm on a diet or not, I make sure my diet includes Eggs and Olive Oil. However, a recent Cholesterol checkup throws up readings that my HDL is only 40!

I don't eat any kind of fish. So, what would be ideal to include in the menu?

Normal range is 35-80

So don't waste time worrying about an issue that is not there.
What matters as far as I know is the ratio of LDL and HDL.


By Olive oil do you mean Extra Virgin olive oil or do you also cook in olive oil.
If its being used for cooking, you are just wasting your money.

[motorworks]

In the last 10 years, I have gone from 82-84 kgs to 72-74 at least 3 times. I have this nature of putting on weight very fast.

I was about 85 in 2008 and that was the year of my marriage, so decided to undergo some diet program and lost about 10 kgs. But post marriage I had no control on food habits and in no time I went back to 85. And I remained in the same weight until 2014-15. More than looking good or anything it was about being fit, so I underwent a not so difficult diet plan, which was all about bran rotis and subway sandwiches. I quickly lost about 10 kgs in about 60 days, went from 36 waist to 32!
And thereon i sort of kept a tab of what I eat. And I watch my weight every morning. I have kept my red alert weight as 75. Whenever I cross 74-75, I do a quick correction in my daily diet. Typically, morning breakfast is oats or muesli, lunch 2 chapatis, and dinner would be 2 slices of wheat bread with vegetables. If I miss to carry lunch the I opt for subway sandwiches.
I travel every 2nd week, so I end up eating a lot out of home. So I have to keep a watch whenever Im at home. In fact Im in Punjab right now and all I have been eating the last 2 days is Chicken, Panner and Rotis. Sure I would have gained 2 kgs in this trip!

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by bblost

Normal range is 35-80
.

Most reports say Negative risk factor for heart disease if its: >= 60 ?

By Olive oil do you mean Extra Virgin olive oil or do you also cook in olive oil.
If its being used for cooking, you are just wasting your money.

Olive pomace oil for cooking veggies and Extra virgin oil for salads and dressing, or for making mayo.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Most reports say Negative risk factor for heart disease if its: >= 60 ?

It depends on where you look for the ranges.

• <40/50 men/women: Low HDL cholesterol, heightened risk considered correlated for heart disease
• 40–59 Medium HDL level
• >59 High HDL level, optimal condition considered correlated against heart disease

Your 40 is at the start point of Medium.
But strictly speaking its the ratio of LDL over HDL, which is the key determinant factor.
Not just the count of HDL or LDL.

Olive pomace oil for cooking veggies and Extra virgin oil for salads and dressing, or for making mayo.

You are wasting money on something that has neither taste or flavor.
Much better off using coconut oil.

[rrsteer]

In the last few pages of this thread a lot has been discussed about food and what to eat and what not to. I think it is universally agreed that fast food and sugar is bad. Lately, I have been reading a lot about two starkly different personalities: Warren E Buffet & Donald J Trump. While one comes across a sage, the other comes across as flippant as one can imagine.

Apart from being terribly successful and having reached the pinnacle in their respective chosen fields, they are also united somewhat by their dietary choices. Both of them are hooked to McD's burgers and it is part of their regular diet. According to Buffet's daughter she has never seen him drink water, he is always drinking Coke. On the other hand Trump loves his chocolate milkshake. While there is a debate on Trump's health and mental fitness, it can't be denied that he is now into the 3rd year of one of the most stressful jobs in this planet, at the age of 72. People who follow Buffet would recall a statement made by him not so long ago "I tap dance to work everyday." He is 88 now.

So my question or my (v v early) hypothesis is that if you stick to a particular food type everyday - no matter good/ bad- the type of food you eat doesn't have a major impact on your overall physical fitness. The main thing is following the same routine. I also think of Khushwant Singh, who if I recollect from my reading, wasn't very diet conscious but in whatever he did, was very strict in repeating his daily habits. He lived a healthy 99 years. I would also include in this, my paternal grandfather. He couldn't live without his daily dose of thick sweet jalebis dipped in untoned milk. Infact that was dinner for him and he was known to be very alert and physically fit till the end. While I don't dispute the advantages of the various scientifically proven/tested diets, but for a normal person like me, maybe if I can find something I like to eat (whatever it is) and just stick to it, I may end up doing just fine.

[thoma]

Are chicken sausages okay for moderate to strict keto? Very difficult to have veggies raw or sauteed, and easily fed up with meat and egg alone. Sausage tastes good and I can eat any number any day, limited only by the cost of it.

My 12.30 pm breakfast of butter coffee, sunny side up and butter fried sausages:


This one seem to have no corn starch, atleast not mentioned:


What is a better way to eat vegetables?

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by thoma

What is a better way to eat vegetables?

I used to eat a lot of veggies via salads. Either buy or make your own full fat sauces and enjoy tasty salads. Add chicken, eggs or paneer according to your taste.