[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by AltoLXI

True again. Real estate used to be a trap for the working class people till recently. Now "education" is getting added to the list. What used to be the fees for the entire engineering course a decade or two back is what the parents are coughing up for their child's monthly school fees now .

I graduated in engineering in 2014, not a decade or to two ago, and the money I spent on my entire course is what I see parents paying for LKG admission.

Also, I am a crazy specimen in that I joined medicine a couple of years after graduating engineering as it was my passion since childhood and private medical school is expensive. Close to a crore for 5 years and let's not even think of the misfortune of a PG medical course in a private college.

Hope my future kids don't turn out as crazy as I am.

[V.Narayan]

One thing I would suggest for all folks on this forum is to give a little to those less fortunate than us. Many on Team BHP may already be doing that I am sure. But as we wend our way through the arithmetic of house EMI versus foreign holiday and car EMI versus a new music system lets contribute two paisa to those who have to choose between food for today versus medicines for a sick child. No matter what we may think of our earnings if we are a car owner as most on T-BHP are then we are in the top 1% or 2% of this country and our real salaries are about 2X what they were 30 years back apples to apples.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Ragavsr

I graduated in engineering in 2014, not a decade or to two ago, and the money I spent on my entire course is what I see parents paying for LKG admission.

Always wondered why this is the case. I mean there are several more schools opening these days. Shouldn't competition cause some normalization in prices? Or are the number of potential students still too many for the number of schools?

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

One thing I would suggest for all folks on this forum is to give a little to those less fortunate than us. No matter what we may think of our earnings if we are a car owner as most on T-BHP are then we are in the top 1% or 2% of this country

Very true, thanks for that. We're so focused on the 1 or 2 percent who have more than we do, that we forget the 98-99% who are less fortunate than we are.

Couple of links that tell you how fortunate you really are:

https://www.investopedia.com/article...cent-world.asp
https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-...how-rich-am-i/

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by am1m

Some great advice in your post, thanks!

The minimizing of consumption/lifestyle is going to become a reality for most of us as we move past our peak working ages. Irrespective of career growth, the sheer number of people at the same income levels competing for the same limited resources in our cities will ensure that however much we earn, we may not be able to match a standard of living we once could have enjoyed with the same income. I'm not talking about depreciating assets like cars or about lifestyle goodies like expensive vacations or eating out everyday at fancy places, but about real assets.

The reason for this is you are thinking in the MARX or communist way where you feel you will be compensated fairly for labor. However, we live in a capitalistic society, and you have to understand that the only way to grow your income is to invest and create capital for yourself. People who did that are on the road to financial independence and freedom.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The reason for this is you are thinking in the MARX or communist way where you feel you will be compensated fairly for labor.

Oookay, dunno about that, but I guess it's an explanation.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

the only way to grow your income is to invest and create capital for yourself. People who did that are on the road to financial independence and freedom.

This makes sense, thanks!

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by am1m

Very true, thanks for that. We're so focused on the 1 or 2 percent who have more than we do, that we forget the 98-99% who are less fortunate than we are.

Couple of links that tell you how fortunate you really are:
https://www.investopedia.com/article...cent-world.asp
https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-...how-rich-am-i/

One of those links says for Indian terms, the top 1% is anyone who:
- earns more than 20 lakhs INR per year
- has wealth more than 5 crores

For me, this has 2 connotations:
1. Many of us (people like me) are still working to get into that bracket consciously or sub consciously. The general idea is to keep accumulating (or saving/ hoarding/ investing depending on which spin one would like to put) as there is no safety net for decent education/ health/ security in case you cannot pay for it yourself. Insurance can only take care of a part of it if something goes wrong.
2. Is this net worth or only income? Deduct how much you spend on basic things like daily commute, basic education for kids, basic healthcare and then you have a real amount to determine where you find yourself on the ladder. And as ladders work, most people only can see the higher rungs and not the lower ones.

Overall, I get the point that we may be in the top 3% to 5% if not the top 1%. It is just that with the other 95% to 97% , many of us may not even be sure what they earn. Is that not the overall percentage of people who do not pay any taxes? That for me could be the biggest psychological block before trying to help someone; most are just not sure if the other person is really in need or not.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Overall, I get the point that we may be in the top 3% to 5% if not the top 1%. It is just that with the other 95% to 97% , many of us may not even be sure what they earn. Is that not the overall percentage of people who do not pay any taxes? That for me could be the biggest psychological block before trying to help someone; most are just not sure if the other person is really in need or not.

I mean, yeah, the overall sentiment rather than the actual percentage figures is the point being made - just take a look around a country like ours, it's obvious that we're more fortunate than most of our citizens.

Fair point about being careful where you donate your money. There are some charities that pay their administrators hefty salaries, fly them around first-class, and generally don't make the best use of donation money, so due diligence is required even when making donations.

[abeerbagul]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

One thing I would suggest for all folks on this forum is to give a little to those less fortunate than us. Many on Team BHP may already be doing that I am sure. But as we wend our way through the arithmetic of house EMI versus foreign holiday and car EMI versus a new music system lets contribute two paisa to those who have to choose between food for today versus medicines for a sick child. No matter what we may think of our earnings if we are a car owner as most on T-BHP are then we are in the top 1% or 2% of this country and our real salaries are about 2X what they were 30 years back apples to apples.

Well, I dont mean this in a negative way, but I do pay income tax on ALL of my income.
This income tax goes to the government which is supposed to actually work towards the upliftment of all Indian Citizens.
The fact that most of it goes into corruption / wastage and does not reach the poor people is not my fault.

So I firmly believe I am doing my bit towards society, even if I dont give to charity.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by abeerbagul

Well, I dont mean this in a negative way, but I do pay income tax on ALL of my income.

And I am sure (as with me) you also pay taxes when you spend after paying tax on your income. Dual taxation, anyone?

Let us not beat ourselves about what charity we do or not. It is completely subjective. As they say, it begins at home. Though interpretation of that statement is completely individual in nature

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by am1m

Fair point about being careful where you donate your money. There are some charities that pay their administrators hefty salaries, fly them around first-class, and generally don't make the best use of donation money, so due diligence is required even when making donations.

So I firmly believe I am doing my bit towards society, even if I dont give to charity.

Very good to hear that. One can always run a charitable cause oneself with one's own hands. requires a little bit of effort and coming out of the comfort zone and staring the bottom 25% in the eyes.

Originally Posted by abeerbagul

Well, I dont mean this in a negative way, but I do pay income tax on ALL of my income.

So do many others and most on this forum.

This income tax goes to the government which is supposed to actually work towards the upliftment of all Indian Citizens.

Off topic - we all have a responsibility to do our two bits or better 4 bits for the society around us. It is not the job of the Govt alone. It is because of this approach we believe we can crib and grumble always believing 'the authorities should do something about it'. I decry our attitude that 'I have paid my taxes and so have no further responsibility'.Don't want to argue this further as we are probably at opposite ends of the continuum.

[kavensri]

I just wanted to share my way of doing charity to help others in the society. I never believed in these NGOs and hence I always stay away from them. I identify a needy person in my close circle (relatives/friends/colleagues) and help them directly. I try to help them with what exactly they need instead of helping them with money. For example, paying school/college fee, buying laptop and study materials, etc. I help them with money only when I cannot in any other way.

[abeerbagul]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Off topic - we all have a responsibility to do our two bits or better 4 bits for the society around us. It is not the job of the Govt alone. It is because of this approach we believe we can crib and grumble always believing 'the authorities should do something about it'. I decry our attitude that 'I have paid my taxes and so have no further responsibility'.Don't want to argue this further as we are probably at opposite ends of the continuum.

Lets agree to disagree, you have your opinion and I have mine. So I dont take it negatively when you write blanket statements which start with "we all" rather than "I"

[blacksport]

Well, taxes are not charity. Those who are confusing both has to take a lesson in basic economics. Taxes are like the fees you pay to your apartment association. It is another matter that taxes are channelled into useless stuff called welfare, which is mostly for the welfare of politicians.

The fact that we pay taxes does not mean we do it willingly. If not for TDS, income tax collections would have been extremely low.

But, whether to give to charity is ones own choice. Don't give for charity, if you don't believe in it. It is perfectly normal. Just don't hide it behind the charity-tax farce.

[srikanthns]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Off topic - we all have a responsibility to do our two bits or better 4 bits for the society around us. It is not the job of the Govt alone. It is because of this approach we believe we can crib and grumble always believing 'the authorities should do something about it'. I decry our attitude that 'I have paid my taxes and so have no further responsibility'.Don't want to argue this further as we are probably at opposite ends of the continuum.

Yes Sir, I agree. But I have different viewpoint. People who are less fortunate than us are outdoing us in charity. COnsidering their earnings, they contribute a significant chunk towards the same.
One Facebook post had story about one flower seller in Virudhunagar (Near Madurai, Tamilnadu ) bus stand who usually hangs 3 or 4 garlands out side the shop after he shuts shop for the night!
H e was quoted in the article as that he started doing this after hearing about difficulties people faced when someone in the family suddenly dies during late evening or night and people run around to get garlands and sometimes even going up to Madurai returning empty handed! SUch people, he wanted to help and he hangs the garlands which can be taken by people for this use ,FREE
Now, everything on Facebook cannot be believed. So I went to Madurai on a personal trip. While coming back to Trivadrum, I thought i will check this and travelled by bus (i prefer train) and got down at Virudhunagar. Finding the shop was not a problem as all in bus stand know this person. That time around 1930hrs itself, he was reserving 3 garlands for this PURPOSE. I asked him, how much he makes per day. He told , on good days, he makes about 750-1000 rs. But some times (may be rainy days) it can be as worse as 300-400 rs. I guess the three garlands may cost him at least 200Rs which he happily gives away for charity, that too for such a noble purpose !

Just wanted to share this story seeing the previous few comments!

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by blacksport

Well, taxes are not charity. Those who are confusing both has to take a lesson in basic economics.

In our country they very much are. What benefits does the average tax payer get? The government has pretty much given up on providing quality education or healthcare. Let us not kid ourselves about government schools or hospitals which are usually the last place where anyone would go to study/ get treated. We pay toll separately for usage of roads after paying vehicle tax. The list just goes on and on. Except for the defence budget, I don't see any worthwhile use of public money. For every rupee spent on infrastructure, there are many more rupees that end up lining the pockets of other influential people.

If basic economics were applied here, we would not have scores of people wanting to live off subsidies rather than doing something themselves.

Originally Posted by srikanthns

Yes Sir, I agree. But I have different viewpoint. People who are less fortunate than us are outdoing us in charity. COnsidering their earnings, they contribute a significant chunk towards the same.
One Facebook post had story about one flower seller in Virudhunagar (Near Madurai, Tamilnadu ) bus stand who usually hangs 3 or 4 garlands out side the shop after he shuts shop for the night!

Great initiative in this case, especially considering the emotions involved. On the other hand, how many of these street vendors pay any relevant tax for using public property (roads/ pavements) for running their businesses?
I know of quite a few such people who are now way richer than the average tax payer; but still know how to get away paying no tax whatsoever.
The overall tax structure itself needs to be overhauled to avoid the Robinhood perception of it.