[mjumrani]

Originally Posted by am1m

Well, he got back mid-2012, I think he completed his MBA end-2011 (not sure about the exact month). The school was Durham Business School, UK.

Not sure how it's ranked globally, but I understand it's a top school in the UK. To be frank, I had not heard of it either, till he got his admit.

I'm sure you know what you're doing, just thought I'd pen down this chap's experiences, as he was quite taken aback by them at the time.

I do understand what you are trying to say.
It is a risk I am taking in a way.
If the gamble does not work I will be in high debt.

The thing on my side is that my salary isn't much by my standards, so my loss for a course of 12-15 months should be minimal besides the tuition and living expenses.

As per my research and understanding, I need to go to the top 20 in the world to have the best chances.

If I go country specific I shouldn't go below the country's top 3/5.

I did attend a few conferences and what I could understand is that the best/most expensive isn't really better.

Course length, living cost, course structure and content, and most importantly ROI cannot be shown in the ranking but through in depth research.

If suppose I get through LBS, by the end I presume I would have spent £60000 + £20000.
Similarly if I go to Imperial or MBS I would be spending near £30000 + £15000.

After finding a job post grad, the former has an average salary of £60000 before taxes and the latter would have it near £50000. This is the annual salary. My returns would be a lot more and the rate of debt decrease will also be higher if I go to Imperial rather than LBS.

So what I am trying is to realistically judge what sort of salary I would look at post MBA. Moreover since I think I have an idea of how the life is in countries like UK, France and Spain, I am also trying to judge which country would be best suited for not only me but my parents as well who will come join me if and when I become a citizen.

Considering my parents and that I do not wish to go to US/Canada/Australia, my ideal and current target is UK since the adjustment required my parents should be minimal compared to a non English speaking country.

Another thing in regard to UK is that I came across a private conversation between an admission counsellor and UKBA. And it seems UKBA should be changing/relaxing visa rules after April ends. The change expected is that the post study work period is being changed from 4months to 1 years, which I think will be enough time to land a good job.

Frankly the things against me are that I am from a non management/finance background (I am in IT) and the GMAT which is starting to get a little scary.

I just hope thing work out. That being said I do not expect to give anything but the best from myself for GMAT and the applications.

[crazydave]

Originally Posted by mjumrani

Considering my parents and that I do not wish to go to US/Canada/Australia, my ideal and current target is UK since the adjustment required my parents should be minimal compared to a non English speaking country.

Another thing in regard to UK is that I came across a private conversation between an admission counsellor and UKBA. And it seems UKBA should be changing/relaxing visa rules after April ends. The change expected is that the post study work period is being changed from 4months to 1 years, which I think will be enough time to land a good job.

Be very very wary of what you hear from admission counsellor regarding the UKBA! Unless you see it in an official announcement from the UKBA, discount everything else, even news stories about relaxation of visa rules. Don't plan on getting 50-60K in debt based on this (and I agree with your cost-benefit analysis of LBS vs. Imperial - if you do get the job of your choice and in the UK economy's condition, thats as good as a coin toss right now)

[download2live]

Originally Posted by mjumrani

If suppose I get through LBS, by the end I presume I would have spent £60000 + £20000.
Similarly if I go to Imperial or MBS I would be spending near £30000 + £15000.

Slightly off topic but is it not possible to start off your own business with amounts like this?
And learn on job?

Kind of sad state of MBA's. Most of the Grads are neck deep in debt by the time they pass out. And try to make a quick one in market (insider trading).

[mjumrani]

Originally Posted by crazydave

Be very very wary of what you hear from admission counsellor regarding the UKBA! Unless you see it in an official announcement from the UKBA, discount everything else, even news stories about relaxation of visa rules. Don't plan on getting 50-60K in debt based on this (and I agree with your cost-benefit analysis of LBS vs. Imperial - if you do get the job of your choice and in the UK economy's condition, thats as good as a coin toss right now)

I'll keep that in mind. After talking to a few people I realise that most of the "No Jobs In UK" chants are being made by masters students and not MBA. Not sure how true that is though.

Originally Posted by download2live

Slightly off topic but is it not possible to start off your own business with amounts like this?
And learn on job?

Kind of sad state of MBA's. Most of the Grads are neck deep in debt by the time they pass out. And try to make a quick one in market (insider trading).

I couldn't come up with a business Idea which would be successfully executed in 50L.
Secondly, I do not wish to set up base in India anyways. Id rather it be based out of UK or France

[hellmet]

I just recently submitted my EOI (expression of interest) as a skilled migrant to New Zealand with a fee of 510NZD. I made a score of 120 and I read that people with more than 140 points automatically qualify for the next step. Anyone know what my chances are of being invited?

[hellmet]

I've been getting increasingly frustrated with life in India. A lot of mental energy is spent every minute of the day to make sure you're not over charged and cheated.

You go to get fuel and you have to keep an eagle eye to make sure he does start from zero, doesn't give you the premium fuel, returns proper change, and even then you know they are short changing you in the amount of fuel, somewhere.

You go to a general store and have to be aware of market prices or be ready to over pay for items. You give him cash AND tender exact change. No business in this country ever keeps change! I'm also outraged by how businesses treat customers, it's almost like 'tu gaya tho das hazir".

Prices of food at eateries has increased by leaps while the serving size keeps decreasing. Why is that? Why can't you maintain quality if you're increasing prices? I'm appalled by the size of what they call "samosas" these days.

Get some work done in the house - electric/plumbing and you have to provide them all the equipment - ladders, torches, drivers, cutters, rags (these idiots don't bring anything), all the while making sure they don't lift items from your place and don't over charge you for what's being installed.

Go to a mall and be prepared to open up your pockets for (open) stealing right from parking (even if they have 5 floors parking space with only 2 being full), to the atrocious amounts you pay for food and entertainment in such malls.

A public park is maintained only with a ticket entrance, and then prepare to pay "premium" for road side eateries too, all because you could afford to spend an evening in the park.

There is a huge difference in how much you pay at a dhaba when you drive in, rather than ride in.

The same story continues with international brands. The sandwiches you eat here at Subways feel 2 days old if you've ever eaten one abroad (Lettuce leaves are not made of gold ok? How about putting some more in there?). What they call pizza here is absolute trash.

You pay extra over MRP for items like coke bottles, milk packets for "cooling". When did people forget M in MRP is "maximum" ?

Star hotels seem to hire the same uncivilized idiots that dhabas do. You pay more to listen to the same broken english and look at the unfriendly faces.

I haven't even begun with how horribly builders operate here in India. I swore to never buy a house in this country.

The worst part about life here, is that you don't even get what you pay for. Even if they rob you with exorbitant bills, you never get the satisfaction of getting your money's worth.

Everybody here wants more money even if they're raking in thousands or lakhs a day. There is greed filled in every street of India's cities and a conman at every corner. It's like "olx.in's" tag "Yahan sab kuch bikta hai" (and OLX is pathetic by the way).

And what really frightens me is the general aggression and short temper of people here. Is it just me or does anyone else notice how people are ready to pounce on you, defend themselves (without us blaming them) and generally throw the blame back on you for their very obvious mistakes? I wouldn't know how to react if I ever got into an accident. All I see are people fist fighting each other after an accident.

Sorry I posted this as it poured into my head in no particular order. Just venting out my frustration.

[anand_saraf]

I feel your angst hellmet.. I feel the same frustration for all the same things and so many more every single day.. Just the other day a friend told me I have become too cynical and I said I have just become realistic; it's gonna take a couple of generations at least for things to change, definitely not going to happen in my time. So maybe it's better to spend my time in a place that's already evolved a little further than here.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Prices of food at eateries has increased by leaps while the serving size keeps decreasing. Why is that? Why can't you maintain quality if you're increasing prices? I'm appalled by the size of what they call "samosas" these days.

You think you are going to get cheaper food in first world countries?

Originally Posted by hellmet

Get some work done in the house - electric/plumbing and you have to provide them all the equipment - ladders, torches, drivers, cutters, rags (these idiots don't bring anything), all the while making sure they don't lift items from your place and don't over charge you for what's being installed.

A plumber in the USA will charge a minimum of 50-100$ for a basic visit to your house to fix something.

Originally Posted by hellmet

Go to a mall and be prepared to open up your pockets for (open) stealing right from parking (even if they have 5 floors parking space with only 2 being full), to the atrocious amounts you pay for food and entertainment in such malls.

Again do you think you will find cheaper parking abroad. Parking New York City is more expensive than a small flat.

Originally Posted by hellmet

You pay extra over MRP for items like coke bottles, milk packets for "cooling". When did people forget M in MRP is "maximum" ?

There is no MRP in a lot of countries. For eg. in the USA, you may find 2 shops a few metres away from each other, but one charging double for a bottle of Coke as compared to the other coz there is no MRP. Not just Coke, this is for each and every item.

Originally Posted by hellmet

Star hotels seem to hire the same uncivilized idiots that dhabas do. You pay more to listen to the same broken english and look at the unfriendly faces.

Atleast they are making an effort to learn a language other than their native tongue. You think that will happen abroad.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by carboy

There is no MRP in a lot of countries. For eg. in the USA, you may find 2 shops a few metres away from each other, but one charging double for a bottle of Coke as compared to the other coz there is no MRP.

America has MSRP, but the seller can choose to ignore it.

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by carboy

You think you are going to get cheaper food in first world countries?

No, but the quality would be consistent and I'd be able to afford it (better salary).

Originally Posted by carboy

A plumber in the USA will charge a minimum of 50-100$ for a basic visit to your house to fix something.

Yes, but he wouldn't break my wall trying to fix a faucet, would bring his own equipment and finish his job properly.

Originally Posted by carboy

Again do you think you will find cheaper parking abroad. Parking New York City is more expensive than a small flat.

No, but you have public transport in such cities.

Originally Posted by carboy

There is no MRP in a lot of countries. For eg. in the USA, you may find 2 shops a few metres away from each other, but one charging double for a bottle of Coke as compared to the other coz there is no MRP. Not just Coke, this is for each and every item.

Well aware of the situation. However, it's illegal to sell items over MRP. I can't even imagine how it'd be without MRP in India.

Originally Posted by carboy

Atleast they are making an effort to learn a language other than their native tongue. You think that will happen abroad.

You think immigrants in the US don't try to learn English?

[mjumrani]

Originally Posted by hellmet

You go to get fuel and you have to keep an eagle eye to make sure he does start from zero, doesn't give you the premium fuel, returns proper change, and even then you know they are short changing you in the amount of fuel, somewhere.

Sorry I posted this as it poured into my head in no particular order. Just venting out my frustration.

Since I'm using the mobile app, I'll just use numbers for the paragraphs to share from my experiences.

1. Every pump will have different cost for fuel and you have to fill it on your own.

2. Sadly the cost of any item at any store varies too. And it is not necessary that they have change for you. Happened multiple times to me.

3. The price of even the cheapest eatable abroad is significantly more expensive that India. That include chips, junk food, water etc

4. Be happy that you can pay 100 bucks here and be rid of an electrician or plumber for a minor job. Abroad these people will burn a hole in your pocket so deep that you'll try and learn about plumbing and electricity. I know I did.

5. Again everything be it parking or entertainment is very expensive. It's not a joke having a car abroad. Many people prefer public transport.

6. This is true. Abroad there is no such restriction on public parks.

7. Subway tastes almost exactly the same abroad as it does here.

8. I don't know which hotels you went to but any 4 or 5 star hotel has good staff. And they are well versed in English. You think that if you go to a non English speaking country they will help you understand what's written on the menu or what they are saying? That is your problem. Unless they speak English of course.

9. My family owns multiple flats and I don't see how a builder is bad. The ones with good reputation have good houses albeit expensive. Abroad it would take ages for you to even afford to buy a house.

10. Would you ever stop wanting to grow and earn more money or stop getting promoted? If no how can you blame others. If yes then kudos.

11. Aggression is quite a big issue in India. But in abroad go to a racist country or state and see how they treat you. You'll start loving your country a bit more then.

Mate. All this is how I saw things and it seems to me that you have a lot of misconceptions of how life might be different abroad. I think you should do a lot more research before you ever decide to leave

Originally Posted by hellmet

No, but the quality would be consistent and I'd be able to afford it (better salary).

Yes, but he wouldn't break my wall trying to fix a faucet, would bring his own equipment and finish his job properly.

No, but you have public transport in such cities.

Well aware of the situation. However, it's illegal to sell items over MRP. I can't even imagine how it'd be without MRP in India.

You think immigrants in the US don't try to learn English?

1. Quality of life, yes you can get that. If you can afford it, that is a myth. It is not easy living abroad. A good salary is not a given. Even if you have a good salary a affordable life is not a given.

2. When you go abroad and have the money crunches you would frown whenever there is a electrical or plumbing job to be done from a third party.

3. Sadly following the low in this country is still a grey area because of the ineffective justice system.

4. You are still talking about an English speaking country. What about France? Spain? Italy? Canada? Not only will you need to know English but the local language too. In some countries knowing English won't even help

[carboy]

Originally Posted by hellmet

You think immigrants in the US don't try to learn English?

Is that the right comparison? Is the waiter an immigrant? Even if he was, shouldn't he be learning the local language rather than English.

Originally Posted by Samurai

America has MSRP, but the seller can choose to ignore it.

Yes - but the 'S' stands for suggested & as you said the seller can ignore it.

Also I have never seen an MSRP printed on any product in the USA which you find in grocery shops etc.
I have seen MSRP stickers on cars, though.

[LithiumSunset]

Originally Posted by hellmet

I've been getting increasingly frustrated with life in India. A lot of mental energy is spent every minute of the day to ...

Since you brought it on yourself with this one Hellmet, I'm going make merry too! But ill keep it short.

It's obvious that you haven't stayed in your imagined paradise (meaning the first world). All of what people have pointed out earlier is true.

But I've a different suggestion. Don't abandon ship, stay back and fight this (seemingly loosing) battle. The first world didn't become a 5 star place overnight, its citizens have laboured very hard to get where they are. It will take us longer but we must keep at it so that the plumber our children employ will become professional and get his tools and rags and he won't be cheap!

It's difficult to be honest on an empty stomach and at various levels they are going to remain empty for some time to come.

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

It's obvious that you haven't stayed in your imagined paradise (meaning the first world).

I lived in the USA for nearly 3 years.
I've also toured a couple of other countries, but it doesn't really count because you barely get to know anything in those few days. However, I observe a whole different attitude people have towards other human beings in being generally nicer and accommodating.

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

All of what people have pointed out earlier is true.

All that has happened is that my general "for example" statements have been dissected apart and examined with magnifying glass.

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

But I've a different suggestion. Don't abandon ship, stay back and fight this (seemingly loosing) battle. The first world didn't become a 5 star place overnight, its citizens have laboured very hard to get where they are. It will take us longer but we must keep at it so that the plumber our children employ will become professional and get his tools and rags and he won't be cheap!

Sorry mate, but I don't really see people of this nation trying to make this a better place. All that anyone is doing is fighting each other, verbally, physically, politically. Those few people trying to do good are killed like mosquitoes.

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

It's difficult to be honest on an empty stomach and at various levels they are going to remain empty for some time to come.

That's no excuse. If you're on an empty stomach, you should understand the value of your customer that much more and yearn to build trust and connections.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by hellmet

And what really frightens me is the general aggression and short temper of people here. Is it just me or does anyone else notice how people are ready to pounce on you, defend themselves (without us blaming them) and generally throw the blame back on you for their very obvious mistakes? I wouldn't know how to react if I ever got into an accident. All I see are people fist fighting each other after an accident.

If you are staying in Delhi/Haryana/UP it is definately one pf the niggest problems. Most people (Like Autowalas/Bus drivers/Shopkeepers and even some of the well educated people) have no decency no ethics and utter disregard for others. You wont find such lunacy in other parts of India.

Originally Posted by hellmet

I lived in the USA for nearly 3 years.
I've also toured a couple of other countries, but it doesn't really count because you barely get to know anything in those few days. However, I observe a whole different attitude people have towards other human beings in being generally nicer and accommodating.

In USA? Even when you are ASIAN?

Can you kindly elaborate. I may have plans to peruse higher studies over there.