[stefanm]

Originally Posted by saildrive

Hi


1) Is Canada a good country to go to? Why not Australia or New Zealand?

Descent place to live.

2) Why should one go to Canada - better lifestyle / better education for kids / cleaner - greener country / good living & civic habits and in all some sort of peace of mind

Education over here is just as good, if not better, better lifestyle? That's debateable, depends on where you live, greener country? pretty green where i'm sitting, civic habits? what's wrong with paan spit and pushing in a bank/government office?

3) Does India not offer similar or better opportunities - If not now, dont we imagine that things will get better in days / months / years to come

100% India offers more opportunities, if you work for them, you have to put in the effort, this goes for anywhere in the world.

4) Leaving your country for another - where and of whom you know nothing or little about ?

I did it, i came to India after been born and raised in Uk, adjustment takes time.

5) On second thoughts may be I am a bit lazy not wanting to leave my comfort zone and try out greener pastures...

Greener pastures? No watchman, no maid, no cook, no free delivery from the liquor store etc.......

6) How easy is it to get a job and start and earn a living - when you dont have anyone to fall back upon in a strange country?

That's down to your own efforts.

7) Heard that the government takes care of you - but that only after you become a citizen there.

Social security is a good but all to often abused luxury, it gives you basic living if you're out of work or sick etc..

8) May be there are a lot of things and reasons, why one decides to go.... but the moot question that i am haggling with right now..... Is It Worth It?

This you can only answer yourself, life is what you make it, if you are doing well over here then what's the issue, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Cos once you are gone......there is no looking back!!

Share your views and experiences of those who have gone and settled abroad...maybe it will help people stuck in the moment and GET OUT OF IT, like me!

Cheers

I have answered your questions above, i have done the opposite, although i have returned to my ancestrial country (although not ancestrial state), i had never lived over here, i have no regretts and enjoy a much better lifestyle and quality of life in India.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by stefanm

I have answered your questions above, i have done the opposite, although i have returned to my ancestrial country (although not ancestrial state), i had never lived over here, i have no regretts and enjoy a much better lifestyle and quality of life in India.

I forgot to mention, like stefanm, I lived abroad most of my life. I came to live in India for 6 months, now it has been 16 years!!!

What do I miss - walkabout in London, good roads, affordable good cars, thats it!

Again, give me a 400000 pound per annum job in London for three years, I would go, more for a change and some fun!

[AlokSriva]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Again, give me a 400000 pound per annum job in London for three years, I would go, more for a change and some fun!

Ajeet, you same to have a taste for probably the most expensive things in life.
For GBP 400,000 p.a., you are saying you would have some fun. If I were you, I would have had truckloads of fun in that compensation package

[s3va]

Looks like there are 2 classes of advices here.

One, from the globe trotting(or trotted) folks who have had the experience of traveling abroad as well as earned enough money, the other coming from folks who are aspiring to go abroad probably for the first time. So the advices require a careful scrutiny before considering a decision as, a person who has been around the world as well as made enough money would obviously consider to spend rest of his/her life in India for the main reason that lifestyle(lifestyle redefined by bringing into simple factors like maid, driver, bigger house etc being easily available now to even the middle class Indians) and a better social life !!

[AlokSriva]

Originally Posted by s3va

Looks like there are 2 classes of advices here.

One, from the globe trotting(or trotted) folks who have had the experience of traveling abroad as well as earned enough money, the other coming from folks who are aspiring to go abroad probably for the first time.

Its good to hear both sides of the story to take a better and informed decision.

So the advices require a careful scrutiny before considering a decision as, a person who has been around the world as well as made enough money would obviously consider to spend rest of his/her life in India

What you have mentioned could be true in most of the cases. But there are always exceptions. There are folks who do not live miserly and do not bring in the conversion factor each time they spend a pound/dollar - which most of the junta does. Trust me, when such folks return to India, they do not have fat wads of converted money.

lifestyle redefined by bringing into simple factors like maid, driver, bigger house etc being easily available now to even the middle class Indians

What according to you is a lifestyle?

For me, I don't have to mow my lawn (watering I still do as a relaxant), clip the hedges, wash clothes and worry about putting them on clothes line, and taking off, ironing and neatly stacking them, washing utensils (dishwashers are no help here), cook (occasionally I still do, again as a relaxant) - rather, the time I gain from not doing these activities, I spend with my parents, wife and son - this my friend, according to me is quality of life, and not driving flashy cars, changing gadgets every quarter or clubbing/lounging/pubbing..

I would again say - define your priorities right. Once you do that, taking a correct decision would be no great shakes as there would be no dilemma!

[stefanm]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

In my honest opinion, if we all had to go through two years of compulsory Army Service (regardless of family background/ financial status/ influence level etc) between the ages of 18 and 22, it will help to instill discipline, create a sense of National pride and generally clean up the system.

Conscription would be great, but unfortunatly wouldn't work, the majority wouldn't pay the bribe to get into the Army

[e1t1bet]

This is a very personal decision. However, there is no harm in living in another country for a while. It is an experience worth having.
I have pretty much decided that I am going to live in India in the long run. I might live abroad for a few years, for better professional opportunities, but in the end I am going to live here. I actually raised this same question a few months back.
Arguments in favour of living abroad:
(1) Everything is clean, efficient and the system works.
(2) Better lifestyle in absolute terms. ie. better roads to drive on, better cars to drive, better couch, bigger tv etc etc etc. Better customer service, better courier service etc etc etc.
(3) The society is a lot more liberal, which for me is a GIANT plus. I hate all rightwing nutjobs.
(4) A lot of fun. Good pubs (no night curfews like bangalore, or moral polcie), good clubs etc, regular concerts etc etc etc.

Arguments against living abroad:
(1) Things are TOO efficient. There is very little flexibility, no room for Jugad or negotiations. That is something you begin to miss when you are abroad. Yes, Jugad has its virtues. Abroad, everything is too objective, and in black or white terms.
(2) Medical facilities are better in India: SHOCKER????? No. Comes from the point above. If you've suffered a very minor stroke, a TIA or are susceptible to some disease, and you're abroad, then god help you. In some countries medicine is socialized, but as with everything that is rationed, it is painfully slow. In other countries, insurance companies rule the roost.
No matter which disease you have in India, as long as you have sopme money or insurance, you can simply walk into wockhardt or similar hospitals. Yes, healthcare for the poor is abysmal, but the middle class has nothing to complain about. I mean, when was the last time that you had to make an appointment 1 week in advance to get an MRI done?
This point stems from the lack of flexibility. Things getting too systematic can be a pain.
(3) The glass ceiling. It exists, and if you don't perceive or see it, then you are either blind or have come across a very skewed sample. Xenophobia exists everywhere. The point is not about someone making racial remarks about me. I don't care if someone calls me a curry muncher, or brown, or that I stink or a retard or any name.
Thus, in India, I don't mind being called a bong, or any racist name. What I know is that, being a bong, I can be the ceo, if I work hard, of a company in Chennai or Delhi, or Mumbai. The same is true for a Tamilian, or a Kannadiga, or a Punjabi. In India, I do not need to prove that I am good despite being a bong.
Outside India, one consistently needs to prove that he is 'good' at what he does, despite being from a third world country. And god forbid if you don't have citizenship or a good visa.
The choice is really about whether one wants to live as a 'visible' minority abroad or not.
(4) Food etc should not be a big deal. Either learn to cook, or get used to their food. Else, don't go.
(5) Prospects for kids, and education system: More or less equal in India and abroad. If the parent is pro-active, they can really ensure that the kid has the best of education. Good education != sending kids to very good schools.

[s3va]

Alok..I had just summed up the various responses and tried to provide an approach that is required towards the responses while making a decision. My intention was not to agree or disagree to the opinions that has come from various experienced folks here.

I am totally inline with the defintion of the Lifestyle that you have mentioned, man if you ask me, they are the biggest advantages that you have while you are in India. But for the sake of earning money or to have a taste of the other asepcts of lifestyles, like living in a good neighbourhood with a pollution free and neat environment(though this is not very uncommon nowadays, we have to accept that it is not accessible to each and everyone in India), conveniences at your finger tips(eg.,think of applying for a license in India), and more importantly a LARGER savings potential(READ : Even after living non miserly) you might have to compromise your this side of the lifestyle for that. Thats all I tried to potray.

[AlokSriva]

@Siva - sure mate, I understand what you mentioned.

One should try to get Phoren land experience, if one can, in order to appreciate India better. Savings definitely are added bonus

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by carboy

Yeah, this is true.



Having lived in several places in the US & India, I would say that Power cut/disruption is rarest in Bombay as compared to anywhere in the world.

where did you live in the US? The last time there was a power cut in California was about 10 years ago, during the ENRON crisis and the rolling blackouts crisis because there wasnt enough power in the state.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by CaliAtenza

where did you live in the US? The y last time there was a power cut in California was about 10 years ago, during the ENRON crisis and the rolling blackouts crisis because there wasnt enough power in the state.

Yes - in early 2000. I was unfortunate enough to be in California at that time, though I moved to a different state very soon after that.
In general, the US otherwise didn't have scheduled power cuts - likewise main Bombay doesn't have scheduled power cuts. Occasionly you have some some breakdown in a particular locality which takes 5-6 hours to fix. This is very very rare both in Bombay & the US.

But the California incident & some blackouts which happened in the East Coast in the last 4-5 years give me the impression that Bombay is marginally better or at the very least at par.

[blue_pulsar]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

(3) The glass ceiling. It exists, and if you don't perceive or see it, then you are either blind or have come across a very skewed sample. Xenophobia exists everywhere. The point is not about someone making racial remarks about me. I don't care if someone calls me a curry muncher, or brown, or that I stink or a retard or any name.
Thus, in India, I don't mind being called a bong, or any racist name. What I know is that, being a bong, I can be the ceo, if I work hard, of a company in Chennai or Delhi, or Mumbai. The same is true for a Tamilian, or a Kannadiga, or a Punjabi. In India, I do not need to prove that I am good despite being a bong.
Outside India, one consistently needs to prove that he is 'good' at what he does, despite being from a third world country. And god forbid if you don't have citizenship or a good visa.

Absolutely man, you said it.

This is what people in this country need to realize. Rather than that, they try to make fun of other 'regional accents' within India and try to adopt a 'fake american accent' when they visit US. Pathetic to say the least. Americans do make fun of pseudo americanism that Indians show. I have a first hand experience of this.
See this thread for e.g. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...nciations.html

[alpha1]

^ Wow!
I don't remember creating a thread!

In any case in that thread we are supposed to talk about why certain differences are there, and not make derisions.

ALOK:

What according to you is a lifestyle?

For me, I don't have to mow my lawn (watering I still do as a relaxant), clip the hedges, wash clothes and worry about putting them on clothes line, and taking off, ironing and neatly stacking them, washing utensils (dishwashers are no help here), cook (occasionally I still do, again as a relaxant) - rather, the time I gain from not doing these activities, I spend with my parents, wife and son - this my friend, according to me is quality of life, and not driving flashy cars, changing gadgets every quarter or clubbing/lounging/pubbing..

I would again say - define your priorities right. Once you do that, taking a correct decision would be no great shakes as there would be no dilemma!

The funny thing is that flashy cars (not the same ones abroad though), changing gadgets, clubbing/lounging/pubbing etc is very much possible here in India also!

[saildrive]

Those a quite a lot of insights!

Today while driving to work - inspite of the strike of railways being called off there was a lot of traffic. People driving, changing lanes without indicating, driving at snail's pace on the right....just gets on your nerves sometimes.

And now that I have a place and a country to compare it to .... either makes you feel bad of all that goes with the system here and ge stuck in the rut;
a) trains on strike, buses running full, traffic snarls yet .... government still in discussions
b) education.... am not very clear if my son (7) now, will he have an edge going abroad and educating himself?
c) Jobs....nothing today is a secure job; should I look at going there and giving it a shot...wife's a teacher.....i am in marketing services ....really unclear and unsure about taking this plunge....starting a new....right from scratch as some of you have mentioned above

as suggested somewhere ...'probably go on visit there and check'

d) my sis-in-law worked as a secy at Taj for over 12-14 years secured job; dont know if her decision is right, her hubby is from the hotel business.....(all said and done....hoteling personnel might not feel it too difficult to get a job) i guess

e) keep getting these images of well laid out garden/carpet.. nice cottage....with parking lot/basement and the lanes which have similar housings round the road with nice clean road.... will it be blissful?

God only knows!!

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please take the time to use proper punctuation as per Team-BHP rules. Avoid...typing...like...this. Thanks.

[clevermax]

I will never migrate. Reasons:

* I will feel too lonely in a cold winter land with low population. (Experienced it)
* Want to stay close to my parents, siblings, cousins and close relatives
* Life will become mechanical once you move to a developed country. Having a good job and good salary doesn't necessarily make one happy.
* Everything is predictable, everything can be planned and executed. No uncertainties in life! (Except recession and job cuts!) What's the fun?
* You will always remain as a 'gaijin' in a foreign land. Only your next generation won't be.