[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

I had dropped the idea of emigrating abroad to US ....

Happy to hear that FrozeninTime. While there are some benefits of migrating to a Western nation - municipal services, cleaner air, social discipline (for the most part) - there are joys of helping build your own nation in your own way. And the standard of living gap in real terms has narrowed significantly at least for Indians who are upper middle class and above. Today when my kids are all young adults I can look back and see the benefits of them having lived in close proximity to their grandparents and gone through the rigours of being brought up in India's competitive & I dare say harsher environment.

[Thad E Ginathom]

My friends had both their daughters in USA. As soon as they were financially secure they returned to the homeland because, yes, they wanted their children to grow up in India.

Both girls are now working in USA. No formality problems because they are USA citizens, but in every other way they have emigrated. One is a doctor.

Best of both worlds! But it's hard to pre-organise the place of our birth!

[xcentrk]

Hey guys, so here I am posting my first question in this post:

The company that I work for offers me a position with assurance to move to Canada within 6 months. And if I stay for a long term(4-5 years I guess) they will even process the PR/GC for me. Yet to discuss on pay & other benefits but I think it will be as per standard. Currently getting 20L p/a here in India.

My question is:
1. How difficult life will be for a South Indian? In terms of harsh weather, food, basic stuffs etc?
2. My daughter is in kindergarden, so how about school fees in Canada?
3. How about general life style and expense? Let's consider if I somehow manage a great salary package, will I be able to save up and return to India after 5 years?
4. What benefits should I negotiate before I proceed with this?
5. How about hospitals? We are thinking about having another kid in next 1 or 2 year. In that case, how expensive it is for me for child birth?

I always wanted to migrate but due to some personal problem I dropped that idea 8 years ago. Now that I have an option, my mind is swinging back and forth about moving to Canada just for a short term of 4-5 years. Since my daughter is too young I feel this is the right time to make such decisions?

[infotech58]

Your employer can not do PR/GC for you (they can just issue you an offer letter to support your personal PR application).

Other responses (assuming you end up moving to Greater Toronto Area (GTA) where most of the IT jobs are):
1) Weather and other stuff should not be of any concern.
2) Public schools are free but you pay for transportation (few 100 bucks/month) and daycare (full time daycare is around $1200-2800 depending on location).
3) Given the cost of living in GTA, savings will be difficult unless you have PR (and can change employers) OR you have double income (spouse works too) OR you have a niche skill.

5) Hospitals are good and free (almost). Childbirth usually costs $0 for delivery and around $400-$800 for recovery room for 24-48 hours (usually paid in full or at least 50% by insurance through employer). When my kid was born, the only out of pocket expense was hospital parking for 4 days (around $150).

Originally Posted by xcentrk

Hey guys, so here I am posting my first question in this post:

The company that I work for offers me a position with assurance to move to Canada within 6 months. And if I stay for a long term(4-5 years I guess) they will even process the PR/GC for me. Yet to discuss on pay & other benefits but I think it will be as per standard. Currently getting 20L p/a here in India.

My question is:
1. How difficult life will be for a South Indian? In terms of harsh weather, food, basic stuffs etc?
2. My daughter is in kindergarden, so how about school fees in Canada?
3. How about general life style and expense? Let's consider if I somehow manage a great salary package, will I be able to save up and return to India after 5 years?
4. What benefits should I negotiate before I proceed with this?
5. How about hospitals? We are thinking about having another kid in next 1 or 2 year. In that case, how expensive it is for me for child birth?

I always wanted to migrate but due to some personal problem I dropped that idea 8 years ago. Now that I have an option, my mind is swinging back and forth about moving to Canada just for a short term of 4-5 years. Since my daughter is too young I feel this is the right time to make such decisions?

[naveenroy]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Let me just mention UK in passing.

UK is famous for its National Health Service. Yes it is "free" (to UK residents) at the point of delivery, but you will find a deduction from your pay called National Insurance.

True, it pays for other aspects of what remains of Britain's welfare state as well, including state pension, but it has to be paid and it is not trivial.

With Socialist-Democrats on the rise in the US, there is a lot of comparisons with health care in the UK, Australia, Canada and other developed nations. From my experience here, I would say healthcare is pathetic. Considering that this is a developed nation. And the costs of healthcare are insane!

But people who have been in the UK and Canada say that their healthcare is better but not the best. When I think of that, all I can think is if you can afford it - healthcare is the best in India. Yeah, I know.

[mohit]

Originally Posted by xcentrk

Hey guys, so here I am posting my first question in this post:

The company that I work for offers me a position with assurance to move to Canada within 6 months. And if I stay for a long term(4-5 years I guess) they will even process the PR/GC for me. Yet to discuss on pay & other benefits but I think it will be as per standard. Currently getting 20L p/a here in India.

My question is:
1. How difficult life will be for a South Indian? In terms of harsh weather, food, basic stuffs etc?
2. My daughter is in kindergarden, so how about school fees in Canada?
3. How about general life style and expense? Let's consider if I somehow manage a great salary package, will I be able to save up and return to India after 5 years?
4. What benefits should I negotiate before I proceed with this?
5. How about hospitals? We are thinking about having another kid in next 1 or 2 year. In that case, how expensive it is for me for child birth?

I always wanted to migrate but due to some personal problem I dropped that idea 8 years ago. Now that I have an option, my mind is swinging back and forth about moving to Canada just for a short term of 4-5 years. Since my daughter is too young I feel this is the right time to make such decisions?

While @infotech58 has answered most things, few additions:

1. weather gets cold but everywhere you go will have heating. Add to it the availability of nice winter clothing/shoes, its a non issue.
2. Schooling, including transportation is free. You might have to pay for transportation if you pick a specialized program which is not in your home school.
3. Rents are high in the Toronto area so saving will not be as great as it used to be.
5. Delivery (normal or c-section) is free and post hospital stay is free in a ward. You pay for a semi private or private room but most work insurances cover that. All in, should be just parking that you pay for.

Originally Posted by naveenroy

But people who have been in the UK and Canada say that their healthcare is better but not the best. When I think of that, all I can think is if you can afford it - healthcare is the best in India. Yeah, I know.

Sorry but I have heard horror stories form people regarding top hospitals - and yes, they could afford it. No place is perfect.

[centaur]

Originally Posted by xcentrk

Hey guys, so here I am posting my first question in this post:

The company that I work for offers me a position with assurance to move to Canada within 6 months. And if I stay for a long term(4-5 years I guess) they will even process the PR/GC for me. Yet to discuss on pay & other benefits but I think it will be as per standard. Currently getting 20L p/a here in India.

My question is:
1. How difficult life will be for a South Indian? In terms of harsh weather, food, basic stuffs etc?
2. My daughter is in kindergarden, so how about school fees in Canada?
3. How about general life style and expense? Let's consider if I somehow manage a great salary package, will I be able to save up and return to India after 5 years?
4. What benefits should I negotiate before I proceed with this?
5. How about hospitals? We are thinking about having another kid in next 1 or 2 year. In that case, how expensive it is for me for child birth?

If you and spouse both are earning similar figures as you (20 lpa), then my suggestion is to continue in India as long as you have good savings after your existing commitments. Rents in Toronto and GTA region are very high and eat into a considerable chunk of your salary. While healthcare is stated to be free, it is not so in the literal sense as you pay a huge chunk through your taxes. Its literally free only if you are not earning and not otherwise.

The biggest issue I have seen is getting access to a specialist. Here the healthcare scene is pretty much like UK where you go to a local doctor and they refer you to a specialist if they deem it is necessary. Well that's just the first part because getting an appointment with a specialist can take a really long time and in that time things might get better or worse. People I know have ended up coming home after 5-6 hours wait at the hospital waiting to see a doctor for this kid with high fever or a bleeding ear. So do consider this especially since you have a small child with you.

As for your questions -

1. There are plenty of south Indians and adjusting from that standpoint would not be a problem. You can get south Indian food items too readily available in many Indian stores. As for the weather, it just takes time to get adjusted to and shouldn't really be a big issue unless someone is very averse to cold weather.
2. Public schools are free. Private schools are not.
3. You would need to put a number here for the salary you think you can get. Like I mentioned earlier taxes are very high and so is the rent. If you say for e.g. earn around CAD 5000 after taxes, you may end up spending anywhere between 1900-2800 for accommodation itself depending on the area you stay in and the type of house you take. If you take a car, have around 300-400 for the EMI and another 280-350 for insurance. There will be other expenses for around 500-800 for groceries, gas etc. On an average you would spend around CAD 4000. So its not really substantial to save a huge amount and come back. With this a you will save is an annual holiday to India and that would wipe out anything you would have saved. If your spouse earns a similar amount then if you exclude around 1000 for day care
then you stand a good chance of saving good, else not. These numbers are an average for calculation and could go up or down depending on the factors and it does not include any commitments you may have in India. If any, factor those in too.

5. You would end up spending more for the hospital parking than anything on the medical care for your second child. Healthcare is free but like I mentioned earlier, unless there is a serious condition you should be good.

If you are able to save around 1-1.5 lakhs after all your expenses in India at present, then being here is a good option unless you want better air, water and somewhat disciplined traffic. ALso in terms of moving back, I would suggest to think of it from your child's standpoint since back in India the schooling would be way different from what it is in Canada. Adding to it, India would have additional languages in the curriculum which is not there in Canada

EDIT - however if you plan to move, now is the best time as they are taking in lot of applications and are planning to take in more than 1 million immigrants by 2021. So this is your best time to move.

Originally Posted by naveenroy

When I think of that, all I can think is if you can afford it - healthcare is the best in India. Yeah, I know.

Agree completely. Took my kid to a doctor at 10 in the night yesterday. This definitely would not have been possible had he been in UK or Canada.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by xcentrk

H
1. How difficult life will be for a South Indian?

More than weather, what I find annoying is the lack on sunlight during winters. During the winters, sunrise is late 7;45 AM and it can get dark by 4:30 PM.

Originally Posted by naveenroy

When I think of that, all I can think is if you can afford it - healthcare is the best in India. Yeah, I know.

Absolutely true. If you're well connected, you'll get treated like a prince by the best doctors at the hospitals.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by xcentrk

Yet to discuss on pay & other benefits but I think it will be as per standard.

You might want to get that information clear and in writing, at some point.
Does that mean they pay for hour house, etc? Are they offering you a Contract or Employment terms? If it is the former, what is your hourly rate going to be, are you entitled to public Holidays. Are they going to cover logistics such as moving house hold articles, etc, or, is that on your head.

Originally Posted by xcentrk

1. How difficult life will be for a South Indian? In terms of harsh weather, food, basic stuffs etc?

It is a big change in lifestyle. Depending on what side of Canada you are going to be, will decide on how harsh the Weather is going to get. Toronto, Quebec City probably heads down to -10 or even lower whereas Vancouver is not as bad. It is still cold for us but I hear houses are well insulated so as long as you are inside, you are okay. Multiple layer of clothing will be required during cold months, when stepping outdoor.

Carry as much as you can from India, to get started. Bed linen, clothes, kitchen articles, etc. Going there and purchasing new goods is going to cost you a whole lot more and as far as clothes are concerned, India makes the best. You will get pretty much everything in Canada except that you may pay 3 - 5x more for it, compared to the cost of the same thing in India.

When we moved to New Zealand, my wife took her entire kitchen with her, including a brand new food processor, mud cooking pots, couple of pressure cookers, etc. She is used to working with a certain set of tools, pots and pans, utensils, etc and being able to get go as soon as we found a rental is where this helped us, versus spending several hundred dollars.

The Indian community is huge in Canada. I don't see it a challenge making new friends as you slowly settle down there.

Originally Posted by xcentrk

My daughter is in kindergarden, so how about school fees in Canada?

School should be free, unless, you fancy sending your daughter to private school. I do not believe it is required.

Originally Posted by xcentrk

How about general life style and expense?

I wrote "Easily" earlier and now Edit the post. This will be down to how you live, save and what you earn. On coming back to India, that is a question you have to ask yourself after 2 -3 years. Will you and your family be able to adapt back to the Indian way of living, travelling, etc. It all boils down to how happy you are in Canada and what opportunities you have there versus India.

Cost of living is generally way more expensive in the Developed World but you can see where your taxes are going. They are put to good use and that is the first thing you will notice. Parks everywhere, clean public toilets, clean surroundings, good public transportation, good roads, etc.

Start researching on home rental costs to get an idea as that is going to be your biggest out go from your pay cheque. Start saving up, invest in Government funded schemes such as Bonds to save, grow your money so that when you do get your Residency, you can put down a decent down payment for your own home.

Originally Posted by xcentrk

How about hospitals?

I cannot comment on how Canada does this but I highly recommend Private Medical insurance for you and your family, as soon as you get there. Might work out to $150 per month. As you are going to start on a work visa, you may not come under the "free" category for medical.

Originally Posted by xcentrk

Since my daughter is too young I feel this is the right time to make such decisions?

I would say that this is the right time to move, when she is young.

[vibbs]

I migrated last year. Not to Canada, but to Singapore.
I was also in a similar conundrum to decide wether to move or not. I had a decent enough salary in India, the company was good, work life balance was quite ok and I was enjoying my work.
Seven months into the expat life, I must say I am happy I made the shift. All said and done, the quality of life is much better than what you get back in India. If you get a salary that enables you to have the same standard of life that you had back in India, this alone is worth making the shift. However, Depending on where you work and how much you earn, the work life balance and savings could actually be much better than in India.

What I did in order to make the decision was to ask around. Not what should be a good salary. But what typical expenses are. In most cases the largest ones are house rent, schooling, health insurance, transportation. Then get a general idea of utilities and most used commodities like rice, veggies, fruits, meat, eggs etc to arrive at a monthly expenditure. I added 10% to that and then accounted separately for eat outs. Thereafter once you know how much you need to spend every month, add the expected savings you intend to make and you get the range of salary that you are looking at.

When kids are small, it's easier to make the move. What is tougher is getting back to India. I know from a couple of relatives and close aquaintances that it's tougher for kids to get used to India after staying abroad for a while than adults.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by vibbs

I migrated last year. Not to Canada, but to Singapore.

Did you get a Singapore PR or just find a job in Singapore? Does Singapore have a points based immigration system?

[xcentrk]

Thanks for everyone for their resourceful replies.

From what I gather here and what I dig on reddit and other places, I have list down the major expenses.
Rent - 2500
Health Insurance - 200
Groceries/Eating Out - 800
Transportation & Other charges - 700 (without Car)

Total - 4200

My monthly savings here in India is about 40k as of now since my kid is in pre-kinder garden. Even if she goes to a better school, my savings would drop about 5-10k depending upon school(for a school with annual fees of about 60k+transportation). Since I work as freelancer it's all about projects and on average, I can earn anywhere between 18-20L easily per annum. Anything over that will be just bonus.

So on average if I get 6000+CAD post-taxes, I can only save a max of 1500CAD per month. Except a measly home loan of 22k EMI here, I don't have any major commitments. So do you guys think average of 1500 CAD/month would be a better savings?

But before you help me out with my dilemma, this is where I am right now.
1. I have had enough of things that I face everyday? Fear for life, safety and constant reminder that one bad night can ruin my life.
2. I have a daughter, and not to generalize but women safety in this part of the country is better(where I live), but it is still a possibility and this puts a lot of pressure. I have seen enough shit to lose the confidence in our system and I cannot live in a constant fear of safety of women in my family.
3. Peace of mind. Work here is demanding, and work culture in, well, not good. The amount of stress it puts on me is unbearable and I am already started facing some health issues. The company which I'm talking about has relaxing work culture and a well funded/settled product based company.
4. If things progress good in Canada, I may very well settled down there for good.

I'm not here to bash my own country or anything. To be frank I love my country and I enjoyed every moment here up until some years ago. But things changed past few years, and it changed from worse to far worse. This constant competition, comparison of one's life with another and general mindset of people upsets me and my wife a lot.

I lost my first born child last year and people here have no idea about grieving phase. They simply want you to feel ok the very next day and have another kid within next few months. No one seems to remember my kid and it made us feel really worse. This was the trigger. I quit my job and went freelancing and started earning almost same as my full time job. But being with my family is not enough as I realize it was the environment that is toxic. No one puts you in their shoe before they ask or say something. All they can think of is about themselves. We always think about others before we utter a word as we believe it might hurt them and expected the same but boy, oh boy. It was proved wrong by almost everyone.

Now I feel that I need to surround myself with people who respect privacy, helping others when in pain and some basic human courtesy. And I believe if I get such environment in Canada, there is a good chance that I may get settled down.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by xcentrk

Now I feel that I need to surround myself with people who respect privacy, helping others when in pain and some basic human courtesy. And I believe if I get such environment in Canada, there is a good chance that I may get settled down.

Moving to a quiet piece of land with your own cottage in the mountains in India with a car and a solid internet connection might be easier, simpler, and far more cost efficient.

[xcentrk]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Moving to a quiet piece of land with your own cottage in the mountains in India with a car and a solid internet connection might be easier, simpler, and far more cost efficient.

I do freelancing, yes. But some clients require me to visit their office once in a week or twice in a week or even more. Unless my chances of travelling is less frequent, I cannot do this. But nevertheless, I will try to consider this option as well. Thanks for bringing this up!

[aadya]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

More than weather, what I find annoying is the lack on sunlight during winters.

Lack of Sunlight is a very big problem for Tropical People. Many would actually adjust in a year or so. But somebody like me who goes into dormant mode even in a decent cloudy august in Bangalore might struggle.

If you're well connected, you'll get treated like a prince by the best doctors at the hospitals.

Not a right perception. Have a friendly neighbourhood Physician/Pediatrician as a regular family doctor and get specialist referral through them. They will take care of your lack of connections. Political and money connection would land you in lots of unnecessary investigations and medications as doctors tend to be defensive when referred by a non medical big shot.