[saildrive]

Hi

Just happened to drop my sister in law / her husband and her family of 2 daughters (12 & 2) to the airport heading to Canada!

My wife would no longer see her sister and family again soon, unless we/she travel/s there or they come here. It was a small emotional affair till they happened to check in and said our last good byes to each other, they should be in Brussels right now heading to Canada in a few hours.

My wife has suddenly gone on a spurt of memories and emotions...and is contemplating us migrating there too, leaving my software in complete disarray!

What has been going through my head in the mean time is that, what is it that we do, why we do and is it really worth it!!

The only place that I thought I could get answers to these queries is TBHP.... and off I shoot

1) Is Canada a good country to go to? Why not Australia or New Zealand?

2) Why should one go to Canada - better lifestyle / better education for kids / cleaner - greener country / good living & civic habits and in all some sort of peace of mind

3) Does India not offer similar or better opportunities - If not now, dont we imagine that things will get better in days / months / years to come

4) Leaving your country for another - where and of whom you know nothing or little about ?

5) On second thoughts may be I am a bit lazy not wanting to leave my comfort zone and try out greener pastures...

6) How easy is it to get a job and start and earn a living - when you dont have anyone to fall back upon in a strange country?

7) Heard that the government takes care of you - but that only after you become a citizen there.

8) May be there are a lot of things and reasons, why one decides to go.... but the moot question that i am haggling with right now..... Is It Worth It?

Cos once you are gone......there is no looking back!!

Share your views and experiences of those who have gone and settled abroad...maybe it will help people stuck in the moment and GET OUT OF IT, like me!

Cheers

[ajmat]

1) Is Canada a good country to go to? Why not Australia or New Zealand?

Great natural resources , proximity to the US but not as globally powerful and always the poorer american relation

2) Why should one go to Canada - better lifestyle / better education for kids / cleaner - greener country / good living & civic habits and in all some sort of peace of mind

If you are offered a well paying job with great opportunities or are totally committed to giving your child an education which would be beyond your means in India, then yes

3) Does India not offer similar or better opportunities - If not now, dont we imagine that things will get better in days / months / years to come

India offers better opportuities in terms of career growth but inflation and horrendous real estate prices is an issue

4) Leaving your country for another - where and of whom you know nothing or little about ?

The internet etc makes more information available

5) On second thoughts may be I am a bit lazy not wanting to leave my comfort zone and try out greener pastures...

Your comformt zone is a good job, decent position in society, kids have a good social ecosystem. Now read below

6) How easy is it to get a job and start and earn a living - when you dont have anyone to fall back upon in a strange country?

Based on what I hear from various people over there, unless it is an MNC who has offered you a position / transfer. It is back to year 0. You need to qualify their way and their certifications. My cousin was a top air con engineer in Kuwait. He had to study and recertify and start again. It took 5 years and they are still not where they were in Kuwait, career wise. As an immigrant you do get some unemployment sitpend, kids get free education etc.


If you are young and just starting the career ladder, may be worth it. Mid career, not worth it unless you want to look at going into business yourself

7) Heard that the government takes care of you - but that only after you become a citizen there.

Am not sure

8) May be there are a lot of things and reasons, why one decides to go.... but the moot question that i am haggling with right now..... Is It Worth It?

Once your SIL is settled, go there, talk to people and figure this out. YOur kids will benefit but is it worth it ?

[sgiitk]

Definitely not. Mera Bharat Mahan.

I bet in a few years you will see a reverse flood

[humyum]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Definitely not. Mera Bharat Mahan.

I bet in a few years you will see a reverse flood

Totally, If you are born and brought up in india, you will never like ANYTHING OUTSIDE INDIA for more than a few days.

Also check out the climatic conditions in Canada, COLD COLD COLD.

[swapnil.rahate]

I am also in the same dilemma as you.................And a IT professional too....

[MCR]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Definitely not. Mera Bharat Mahan.

I bet in a few years you will see a reverse flood

Originally Posted by humyum

Totally, If you are born and brought up in india, you will never like ANYTHING OUTSIDE INDIA for more than a few days.

Also check out the climatic conditions in Canada, COLD COLD COLD.

+1. I spend 3 months of every year in Europe, thanks to my job commitments. The 'feeling' of being in Europe fizzles out in a few days. I start missing India. The feeling of being an 'outsider' becomes very evident. Canada is outrageously cold and also not as US. I have a cousin in Canada and she is living there since last 5 years and she alway wants to return back to India. All I can say is its not very easy, this is untill you are ready to forget your past completely.

[amitoj]

You have to weigh your pro's and con's
As for the weather being too cold, its only a matter of initial couple of years and then you get used to it. If not "used" to it, then atleast you start accepting it.
Although you will be an "outsider" in a foreign land, there is enough presence of indian communities there that are quite well bonded and close knit. And lets face it, you will be an outsider in your own country as well if you move out of your hometown.
But yes, starting your career there is difficult. You will definitely need to do odd jobs, no matter how well qualified you are.
To me, some of the biggest advantages seem to be:
More value for life
More returns on your tax money
Much better education system for kids. (this is the biggest reason for the educated people who emigrate to Canada)

I'd not pay much attention to patriotic jingoism and rather base my decision on what i need and what is being offered.

[DoNotHorn]

I agree with Ajmat(2nd post).
The government does not take care of you. Gov gives free medical and education to kids. However the quality of the same is debatable.

If you prove yourself to be not able to earn money they will dole out some money which helps you to barely survive(this is close to begging albeit from the governemnt).

Mera bharat Mahan??? (sour grapes syndrome?)
where/how? Can somebody explain with comparison to Canada.

Racism exists in Canada - But we Indians are the biggest racists - purely my opinion(In Canada racism is probably only based on your skin color and origin).
There are many Indian origin people who have made it to the very top in Canada!!!

There is absolutely nothing wrong in emigrating and knowing stuff yourselves. Also you can wait for a couple of years to know your Sisters experience.

If you have a decent job(anywhere in the world) you will like it, else you will say mera bhart mahan as you will atleast have your family support here.


FYI - There are atleast a million Indians in Canada and are happily living there for a long long time.

Except for extreme(cold)weather its a beautiful place(much much more beautiful than Switzerland).

If you are not bound to family(parents) and willing to take a risk in life go ahead an emmigrate - You can always comeback to India(we are better that way as for people form many countries - Srilanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangaldesh........ there is no option to stay back).

If you hate cold & paying a lot of taxes - don't go to Canada.

Will write more as I get time and depending on the activity of this thread.

Regards,
Donothorn
IndoKanadian.

[blackstallion76]

@saildrive:
This is all based on priority. There is no point in disrespecting the your current position,status, comfort and look to settle somewhere unknown.
India is definitely improving the urban lifestyle. Average Indian is earning more compared to 10yrs ago.

But, yes there are certain fine points here and there. We need search for that sweet spot keeping in mind the long-term aspects.

We should not take decisions emotionally. Just keep the mind kool and move on towards growth.

I have friends in Australia, US, UK. All of them went around 10yrs ago. Now, they have cobbled up lot of loans and yearning to come back to India. Some of them are coming back to India just because of better education and relative circle.
They had enough in earning money in foreign land and nothing else.

Its all as to how you build the support system and adaptability in the new environment and maintain them. Above points are just personal opinion.

Afterall, every individual needs good peace of mind at the end of day.

[Alter_Ego]

Originally Posted by saildrive

My wife would no longer see her sister and family again soon, unless we/she travel/s there or they come here. It was a small emotional affair till they happened to check in and said our last good byes to each other, they should be in Brussels right now heading to Canada in a few hours.


Cheers

If its Canada then go ahead with no worries.I just returned from Canada last year after spending a couple of years there and would vouch that people there are really warm(not the climate though) and your quality of living and lifestyle will change drastically.
And not to mention you can own a used BMW for as cheap as 5000 dollars.Thats the price I sold off mine when I was returning.

[CaliAtenza]

Im going to chip in my 2 cents here. I was born and raised in the US, and i moved here to India for medical school 5 years ago, bassically because i wanted to shorten the time.

1) Canada and America right now are prolly the two top destinations for Indians and for good reason. Im thinking Australia is right now pretty much off limits for indians and i dont know much about NZ. I always assumed its just a mini version of Australia.

2) Infrastructure is excellent in all the countries you mentioned. One of the main problems i see with India today is infrastructure. Its not being built fast enough, or if it is, its being stalled in myriad red tape, etc. India should take the lead from China, but then again China is communist, they will just bulldoze your home to make way for another dam or highway or such.

3). I have no clue about the job market, sorry. These days, its not so great what with the downturn and all. Many people are coming back to India as well.

4). I agree with DoNotHorn, us Indians are the BIGGEST racists, sadly :(.

5). Power cuts are very rare in Canada/USA/The West.

6). If Indians were really patriotic, then they wouldnt have castesim, regionalism, etc, etc. So i dont agree with "Mera bharat Mahan". Also, India and Indians should fix their own problems, dont worry about the rest of the world...America is there to do that

7). I also miss home, more than that, i miss the easy of living in the US. Everything is available at your fingertips and at all times. India makes things uneccesarily difficult :(.

8). Canada has a public health system, i dont know how it applies to immigrants though.

9). The 2 biggest problems in India are, a. Corruption at all levels of society and b. Crooks and Thieves running the political system. If those things can change, than India can really start to fly towards Super Power status. I dont want to hear anything about being a Super Power untill India can provide uninterupted. electricity and water for all or a vast majority of its citizens.

10). Its all up to you, you have to figure out whether you can move away from your home, your land of birth, and make it in a new place. North America can be a wonderful place to live and work, if you are up to it.

Originally Posted by Alter_Ego

If its Canada then go ahead with no worries.I just returned from Canada last year after spending a couple of years there and would vouch that people there are really warm(not the climate though) and your quality of living and lifestyle will change drastically.
And not to mention you can own a used BMW for as cheap as 5000 dollars.Thats the price I sold off mine when I was returning.

I was thinking of doing my post grad in Canada, but stuff is more expensive up there compared to the States, new cars as well :(.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 20 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

[Alter_Ego]

Originally Posted by CaliAtenza

I was thinking of doing my post grad in Canada, but stuff is more expensive up there compared to the States, new cars as well :(.

Yeah when compared to the states its a bit on the higher side.But still I have experienced some racisim in US but in Canada people treat you even better than my countrymen sometimes

[JustCause]

Find my answers in Bold

Originally Posted by saildrive

Hi

Just happened to drop my sister in law / her husband and her family of 2 daughters (12 & 2) to the airport heading to Canada!

My wife would no longer see her sister and family again soon, unless we/she travel/s there or they come here. It was a small emotional affair till they happened to check in and said our last good byes to each other, they should be in Brussels right now heading to Canada in a few hours.

My wife has suddenly gone on a spurt of memories and emotions...and is contemplating us migrating there too, leaving my software in complete disarray!

What has been going through my head in the mean time is that, what is it that we do, why we do and is it really worth it!!

Happens, my wife too started pestering me after my cousin's family moved to San Jose, California

The only place that I thought I could get answers to these queries is TBHP.... and off I shoot

1) Is Canada a good country to go to? Why not Australia or New Zealand?

Canada might not conform to your mindset of life in a foreign country. Australia, you will literally be teased racially and you must grin & bear it (first hand experience).

2) Why should one go to Canada - better lifestyle / better education for kids / cleaner - greener country / good living & civic habits and in all some sort of peace of mind.

You will get everything but peace of mind, you WILL feel lonely in any foreign land

3) Does India not offer similar or better opportunities - If not now, dont we imagine that things will get better in days / months / years to come.

India is, even if the least of all, your Country, you are a citizen here, you are the master of your own world here.

4) Leaving your country for another - where and of whom you know nothing or little about ?

Didn't quite get this one

5) On second thoughts may be I am a bit lazy not wanting to leave my comfort zone and try out greener pastures...

The grass always looks greener on the other side.

6) How easy is it to get a job and start and earn a living - when you dont have anyone to fall back upon in a strange country?

See pt.2 , regarding employment & living, it is very tough if you don't have a pre-established well wisher there, first being the VISA problem.

7) Heard that the government takes care of you - but that only after you become a citizen there.

Yes it does, but getting citizenship in such a country isn't a breeze either.


8) May be there are a lot of things and reasons, why one decides to go.... but the moot question that i am haggling with right now..... Is It Worth It?

Cos once you are gone......there is no looking back!!

I have left it for you to decide.

Share your views and experiences of those who have gone and settled abroad...maybe it will help people stuck in the moment and GET OUT OF IT, like me!

I have not settled abroad and I cannot warrant for my friends' experiences.

Cheers

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Definitely not. Mera Bharat Mahan.

I bet in a few years you will see a reverse flood

Totally agree with you, I accept my country for whatever it is.

[Daewood]

Basically it depends on what kind of person you are inside.

1.If you are the type who loves hanging around with relatives/ friends as much as possible and relish the imaginary safety net of being in your own city/state then living in any foreign land wll not make you happy.
You will always want to come back no matter how much comforts you get.

2.If you're the opposite of this go ahead and contact the nearest immigration agent.

[s3va]

This thread is an absolute coincidence ! I had started to contemplate on whether applying for the US H1 or not(purely an after effect of efforts worth 2 years trying for a job offer abroad that was nothing else but a fiasco)

Now long story short on the reasons for applying, (defenitely mera Bharat is mahaan !! ). Objective to go abroad is purely to gain abroad experience, better savings and better life style. So make some money and come back !

So defenitely a question, why US to make money ? Why not the Gulf, Singapore and the likes.

Gulf - Good option to save, but lifestyle wise cannot be compared with the US.

Singapore - Good option to save as well as boost your lifestyle. Frankly I have been breaking my head hard, but have not succeeded in getting hold of a good offer. Thanks to the recession.

And to talk about countries like Oz, Canada famous for immigration

Oz - Good place with favorable climatic conditions. But the turn around time for obtaining PR has gone up north. And the job situations are still a hazy pic to me

Canada - The first thing that pops up in my mind is the temp. My wife hates even the hill station weather here, so leave alone Canada. But the country is the best in terms of benefits and government support factors. Again job situation is pretty hazy.

Ok then how about UK
-HSMP is very easy to obtain these days, 15-20 days
-But availing a good job is again a tough thing.
-And cannot save much, as the expenses vs. earnings ratio is not that good.
-otherwise an excellent place to live and do a lot of traveling to its nearby places like Scotland, Ireland etc.

Now lets talk about the US

-Good place to lead a comfortable lifestyle. Clean & planned townships/cities.
-job scenario reviving from the big fall it had during the market slump.
-H1 quotas still empty.
-Tricky and complicated(risky too) process in obtaining the Visa. ie you need to find a body shopper who is no less than an expert in this domain
- 3 to 6 months of initial struggle, so that means, your savings should be good enough to support you as well as your family back home(since you are intending to take them once you are well settled with a good job and home) during the tenure
- savings potential is good though not excellent as compared to the Gulf, but then your lifestyle is getting an uplift for sure.

The above opinions are purely personal and open for beatings/encouragement. I hope this thread attracts many posts that should help one (including self) to take some good decisions.