[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by KRRaj

Nicely said.

A typical example, My friends in the IT industry quite a few who are from North, prefer to speak only Hindi and ask me also to talk in Hindi. I simply respond that If I come to Mumbai for instance and speak in Kannada and ask them to do so as well, will they respond?

I commend you for that. Sadly too many people in this town have given in and forgotten about their roots...

[vnabhi]

@blue_pulsar----+1 to your analysis. You've summed up the facts pretty nicely.

While on the subject of Indians in the US, i was surprised to learn that many who I have interacted with and stayed with discouraged their kids from mingling with the locals. I was equally surprised when I found a kid in 8th standard knew only Telugu pop songs, and no English songs at all, not to speak of Hindi songs.
They somehow have an apprehension that they would lose their cultural heritage if they allow their kids to assimilate western culture!! LOL!!!

My wife also was shocked to observe this. She even asked my pals as to how they can plan to enjoy the value of a dolllar and good living conditions, while shielding themselves from western culture !! Does not seem to be viable in the long term, IMHO.

My pals also responded by stating that they've visted India many times over the past decade, and found Indians living in India more westernised than Indians in the US.

But hey, we are digressing again from the central theme of this thread....

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

While on the subject of Indians in the US, i was surprised to learn that many who I have interacted with and stayed with discouraged their kids from mingling with the locals. I was equally surprised when I found a kid in 8th standard knew only Telugu pop songs, and no English songs at all, not to speak of Hindi songs.
They somehow have an apprehension that they would lose their cultural heritage if they allow their kids to assimilate western culture!! LOL!!!

My wife also was shocked to observe this. She even asked my pals as to how they can plan to enjoy the value of a dolllar and good living conditions, while shielding themselves from western culture !! Does not seem to be viable in the long term, IMHO.

My pals also responded by stating that they've visted India many times over the past decade, and found Indians living in India more westernised than Indians in the US.

But hey, we are digressing again from the central theme of this thread....

hence the 'C' in ABCD.

[YaeJay]

One word. No. Go abroad make dough get back. Period. Unless you are from the north east... where You really have to move out.. go abroad make a few stay Indian

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by YaeJay

One word. No. Go abroad make dough get back. Period. Unless you are from the north east... where You really have to move out.. go abroad make a few stay Indian

justification for your statement? Doesnt mean you lose your Indianness if you go abroad...

[spadival]

I migrated to Australia about a year and half ago.

Jobs:
So far so good. Initially it was really tough getting an IT job. But I came here with my eyes open, but at the worst possible time - in the middle of the global financial crisis!! I was prepared to go without a job for atleast 6 months, in terms of finances. But it is could be an exception rather than the rule as the GFC is finally receding. Now the job market has stabilized and I have a permanent job with an IT company here. I can choose to do contracting at a later stage (more money), but I still haven't made up my mind about the pros and cons of it. But do keep in mind that this option isnt available at all in India - you are either a slave or a slave driver at one of the big IT cos

Immigration and citizenship:
Also, the immigration rules have kept changing since I migrated - No more hairdressers and cooks allowed !! Sad to say, for every honest immigration agent, there seem to be 10 who lie, cheat and exploit. But this is more so with regard to the student visa. And it is the desis who exploit other desis !! I have seen a few immigration nightmare stories on TV shows, but thankfully, I haven't personally met anyone who has had a bad experience.

Also, I have heard that PR visa processing now takes up to 2 years, whereas it was a year for me. If you are a PR visa holder, You and your family get free medicare as soon as you land. You qualify for unemployment benefits after 2 years (Good- we don't need leeches). Citizenship takes 4 years, but you can opt to extend your PR visa (RRV) and keep your Indian citizenship.

versus Canada
Australia is a country of immigrants - you have the British (of course), Lebanese, Greeks, Italians, Sri Lankans, Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, East Europeans, Indians. Basically the whole lot, even people from Brazil. Have a co-worker at work, who is from Calgary, Canada. But he isn't a migrant, He has come here for work, as he couldn't find much work in IT in Calgary.

Australia,in many respects, is similar to Canada. Both have a big mining boom going on, mainly driven by exports to China. Both have liberal immigration rules. But thankfully, Australia is a lot warmer compared to Canada. I complain about cold weather now and my Canadian colleague says it is as cold as the warmest day in Calgary

Social side of things:
I have family members (Uncle/Aunt/Cousin) here who immigrated 35 years ago. Thats a huge plus. Its seems there was only 1 Indian grocery store (in Bondi) in the whole of Sydney when they came here. So I cant really complain about much of anything!! My Australian born cousin speaks tulu (our mother tongue) and understands a bit of Kannada too.

My wife has better chances of getting a job here (once she is back from the trip to India). Back in India, the job opportunities were basically non-existent.It was either recruiting and call centres - both of which didn't interest her. She has done a 6 months course in Child care. She worked for a couple of weeks and paid for her ticket to India

Last, but not the least, building your support system is entirely up to you. Its the same whether you move from Pune to Sydney or from Bangalore to Pune. You are still all alone in the middle of a big city with people around you speaking a strange language that you don't understand!! Probably, thats the secret as to why Indians adjust pretty quickly wherever they go.

[vinaydas]

My Question.
Yes there is more money involved abroad than India(at least most of the time).
But is that extra money worth it. I mean In India You can get a hair cut for say 10 bucks(cheapest Hair cut ive ever got ! ) the same in a place Like NY costs 20-30 dollars. So your earning minus cost of living , is the savings more than the same job with lesser pay and lesser cost of living in India which is considerably lesser?

Purely talking regarding economic issues, not related to work experience and environment etc. I believe in one Term "Adjusting".
Many People, when moving to another state/city /country expect it to be exactly like their own home town/state/village/country.
Its then when they start cribbing about the food, the environment,the locals(this is the worst thing to do,they have been living here for generations together and your opinion on their culture and style of living is not at all appreciated) and even the weather(In my Opinion , If you are a Migrant and you complain about the weather,i would call you an Ignorant fool. How can you change the natural eco system to your own needs? there is enough data about the weather of the place you are moving to)

[ampere]

Vinay,

My only point here with respect to cost of living is that perspective of the buying power of dollar versus rupee.

For example 10-20$ is huge, if you want to buy food items. But as you rightly said it would barely buy you a haircut.

Similarly you can buy very good and reliable electronic item for 50$ but try to buy a child care product for 50$ and you would be surprised.

I need not even mention about medical insurance as a case in point.

Cost of living I guess in US or western count has to be seen in perspective.

PS: My previous points though were raised in context of US.

[leodelg]

I have read the whole thread so far. The only logical conclusion that I can come to is that people are using their experiences in different countries to generalize what life will be like in that particular country. Just because you had a positive/negative experience in a particular country doesn't mean everyone will have the same experience. Here's my story to illustrate that.

My high school buddy and I moved to India from the same country in the Middle for our undergrad. I had a difficult time adjusting to life in India, whereas he found it a lot easier. Just so you know, we both were born and brought up outside India. Four years after that, we both moved to Bangalore for work and neither of us had any issues settling in the new city. And three years after that, we both moved to Canada for our masters. While I found it easy to settle down here, my friend took much longer to adapt.

Now does it make any sense in my friend or me generalizing life in India or Canada. Can we use our personal experiences to generalize what life in a particular country/city/village will be like? I seriously doubt it.

I am still in my mid 20s and don't have as much experience in life as many of you. But here's my 2 cents on this "moving to a new country" discussion. It depends on how much of risk-taking person you are. If you are willing to take the risk, you will find reasons to justify the move to a new country. If you are risk averse, you will reasons to justify NOT moving to a new country.

I made a decision to move from the Middle East to India. I had my ups and downs, but I learned a lot and I have no regrets. I made a decision to move from India to Canada. Again, I had my ups and downs, but still no regrets. I hope the thread starter makes a decision that he is comfortable with and doesn't end up regretting it or asking the perennial question "What if?"

P.S - I live in Vancouver. Absolutely love it here. Beautiful place, wonderful people and weather I can't complain about. Average of 25C in summer and 0C in winter . Although we could do with a little less rain.

[spadival]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

Heard that the real estate price of Australia is only 25% of that of the UK (typical scenario, of course).

Thats completely incorrect. Property prices keep going up, like it does in India. Last year, it increased by 20%. Some say it is fueled by non-resident investors (aka cashed up Chinese :P), others say it is because of population growth and housing shortage. But there is definitely a property bubble building up here.

Originally Posted by ampere

Vinay,
For example 10-20$ is huge, if you want to buy food items. But as you rightly said it would barely buy you a haircut.

It barely buys you a hair cut, but that is because that the person who is cutting your hair is getting better wages than his/her counterpart in India. i.e. there is more equitable distribution of wages versus purchasing power.

Dunno about US, but the minimum wages here is around $10-$15 PER hour. In India, people howl when they have to pay their household maids Rs 1000 per month and scream as if it is daylight robbery.

About being second class citizens, some of you should read the Booker prize winning novel "The White Tiger" to really understand what it is to be a second-class citizen in India. They may be invisible to you - but they are all around you - the aforementioned maid, driver, watchman etc etc.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by spadival

It barely buys you a hair cut, but that is because that the person who is cutting your hair is getting better wages than his/her counterpart in India. i.e. there is more equitable distribution of wages versus purchasing power.

I agree. But look at it this way. An Indian citizen employed into lower level support functions (like barber, maid etc) cannot easily go to a western country and survive on the same profession. They may do so by going to Gulf, but western country, its more difficult.

In India we definitely do not have equitable distribution. In fact for that matter we do not even have a honour of labour. We look down upon folks sweeping the road. What you mention (equity of wages) is available in western countries, is something impossible to achieve in India due to higher population and lesser resources.

Another point to illustrate: Why do many students go to other countries for MS/PHD?

(Lets leave the argument of: peers going abroad, so I also want to)

Real reason, there are few institutes like IIT/IISc/IIM which every one can get entry to. But there are several places with same infrastructure in US where the same "average student" can get an entry to and experience the ambiance of such an infrastructure.

(This is apart from the top tier universities.)

So my point is, if someone can afford comfortable living in the country he/she will continue. But if its in his/her power to beyond he/she will definitely go through.

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by vinaydas

My Question.
Yes there is more money involved abroad than India(at least most of the time).
But is that extra money worth it. I mean In India You can get a hair cut for say 10 bucks(cheapest Hair cut ive ever got ! ) the same in a place Like NY costs 20-30 dollars. So your earning minus cost of living , is the savings more than the same job with lesser pay and lesser cost of living in India which is considerably lesser?

Purely talking regarding economic issues, not related to work experience and environment etc. I believe in one Term "Adjusting".
Many People, when moving to another state/city /country expect it to be exactly like their own home town/state/village/country.
Its then when they start cribbing about the food, the environment,the locals(this is the worst thing to do,they have been living here for generations together and your opinion on their culture and style of living is not at all appreciated) and even the weather(In my Opinion , If you are a Migrant and you complain about the weather,i would call you an Ignorant fool. How can you change the natural eco system to your own needs? there is enough data about the weather of the place you are moving to)

question is, do you really want that 10 buck hair cut? I pay at least 220-250 rs for my hair cuts (once a month or so), but thats cause i go to a salon and they do good work .

[chennai-indian]

I think whether to emigrate or not is essentially a personal decision depending on each individuals priorities. I stayed in US for 3 years and decided to return because of the following:

1. Wanted to support my aging mother back in Kerala.

2. Wanted my kids to enjoy their grandparents and vice-versa.

3. Career wise (I'm in IT) and job content wise, I found that being in India is better than being in US.

4. I have always been attracted to farming and it is my dream to have an organic farm when I decide to retire from my current job and wanted that to be in India.

5. I'm able to save more (this may be surprising to some) staying in India than when I was in U.S

6. Last but not the least, my sense of belonging is more here than any of the other countries I have stayed before.

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by chennai-indian

I think whether to emigrate or not is essentially a personal decision depending on each individuals priorities. I stayed in US for 3 years and decided to return because of the following:

1. Wanted to support my aging mother back in Kerala.

2. Wanted my kids to enjoy their grandparents and vice-versa.

3. Career wise (I'm in IT) and job content wise, I found that being in India is better than being in US.

4. I have always been attracted to farming and it is my dream to have an organic farm when I decide to retire from my current job and wanted that to be in India.

5. I'm able to save more (this may be surprising to some) staying in India than when I was in U.S

6. Last but not the least, my sense of belonging is more here than any of the other countries I have stayed before.

This is a fair assessment. .

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by vinaydas

I mean In India You can get a hair cut for say 10 bucks(cheapest Hair cut ive ever got ! ) the same in a place Like NY costs 20-30 dollars.

if you need same kind of place ( indian street), it's 7$ (roughly 300 Rs), with the same amenities that a 300 Rs haircut provides you in india.

20$ cut from a trained female professional can cost you more than a 1000 Rs in india If I remember right .