[LithiumSunset]

Originally Posted by hellmet

I lived in the USA for nearly 3 years....

Sorry mate, but I don't really see people of this nation trying to make this a better place. All that anyone is doing is fighting each other, verbally, physically, politically. Those few people trying to do good are killed like mosquitoes...

Stand corrected about your exposure to el-dorado, three years is long enough to give up on us as a lost cause. Can't blame you..

[mjumrani]

Just saw in the the news that UKBA has eased the immigration rules for MBA grads. But it's not that good a news as its limited to a maximum of 1000 per fiscal and the group is of multiple countries including India.
Doesn't really change the ground reality I feel.

UK eases immigration rules for students, Indians to benefit :http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/uk...benefit-350977

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by carboy

A plumber in the USA will charge a minimum of 50-100$ for a basic visit to your house to fix something.

Again do you think you will find cheaper parking abroad. Parking New York City is more expensive than a small flat.

I stay in an apartment here and i have had the following replaced:
1. tub faucet
2. shower head
3. dishwasher
4. a broken slab in the closet.

Cost to me: a big ZERO! All covered by the apartment association.
And the best thing. I didnt need to be at home for them to carry out the work. I gave them permission to carry out the work in my absence and when i came back from work, it was done!! Of course, not a thing lifted, which hellmet has talked about.

But yes, if you stay in your own house, then calling a plumber or an electrician is an expensive option. And that is why being more hands on is the sensible thing to do in this country. Painting your house, fixing a leak, relaying the carpet etc are things most people do on their own! Some call their friends and have a big house painting party!!

Regarding parking, I am yet to come across a mall that has paid parking. Hellmet was talking about mall parking. Many cities have metered parking in the downtown area. But guess what! They also become free over weekends!! While it is expensive to park in the heart of the cities, like hellmet mentioned, there are other means of travel available in those cities.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

In USA? Even when you are ASIAN?

I'll tell you about my experience in New York City. I went there with my wife and two kids because we wanted to see the city. We had a double stroller and many subway stations didnt have elevators. There was not a single staircase where people did not come forward to help take the stroller up or down the stairs, with both kids asleep in it!!

And here, people still leave their seats in subways and buses when they see an old person or a parent (man or woman) with a kid.

Of course its not all rosy and all. A friend of mine got screamed at by a homeless man because he passed by him too closely. I think the homeless guy took it as home invasion. LOL.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I'll tell you about my experience in New York City. I went there with my wife and two kids because we wanted to see the city. We had a double stroller and many subway stations didnt have elevators. There was not a single staircase where people did not come forward to help take the stroller up or down the stairs, with both kids asleep in it!!

And here, people still leave their seats in subways and buses when they see an old person or a parent (man or woman) with a kid.

Of course its not all rosy and all. A friend of mine got screamed at by a homeless man because he passed by him too closely. I think the homeless guy took it as home invasion. LOL.

Frankly, New York is a very polite city, if you look lost, someone will try and help you. People are a little abrupt in their communication but they help out a lot. When my wife was expecting, we travelled to a rough part of Harlem and people will give up their seats for her.

[Arunshek]

Originally Posted by hellmet

I've been getting increasingly frustrated with life in India. A lot of mental energy is spent every minute of the day to make sure you're not over charged and cheated.

And what really frightens me is the general aggression and short temper of people here. Is it just me or does anyone else notice how people are ready to pounce on you, defend themselves (without us blaming them) and generally throw the blame back on you for their very obvious mistakes? I wouldn't know how to react if I ever got into an accident. All I see are people fist fighting each other after an accident.

Sorry I posted this as it poured into my head in no particular order. Just venting out my frustration.

+1 to all your points.
Yes like others mentioned, little errands like plumbing and electricity, fixing fence, furniture etc will have to be done on own. But then you get tools and training kit from shops, which will help you a lot.

When I was a kid, i thought that once our generation becomes adults, decision makers, something will change. Our place will be a better place. But on the contrary, it's becoming even worse.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

In USA? Even when you are ASIAN?

Can you kindly elaborate. I may have plans to peruse higher studies over there.

What you mean by 'even when you are Asian'?
I was in US for 2.5 years and no place i felt i was treated different, or any discrimination. Other way to say is, there is not preferential treatment for anyone. If you live by the rules set by them, rules which are actual rules which needs to be followed by one and all, there's nothing to fear.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I stay in an apartment here and i have had the following replaced:
1. tub faucet
2. shower head
3. dishwasher
4. a broken slab in the closet.

Cost to me: a big ZERO! All covered by the apartment association.

You are renting these things from the landlord. So obviously he has to repair/replace them. They account for this in the rent they collect from you (not individually, but the plumber, janitor etc's salary are accounted for in your rent).

Originally Posted by amitoj

Regarding parking, I am yet to come across a mall that has paid parking.

I haven't visited malls in New York City, but they probably will have paid parking.

And even in other cities in the West Coast, some malls in the downtown area have paid parking (partly compensated by validation). But yeah, other than downtown parking is usually free and abundant.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I'll tell you about my experience in New York City.

That is generous.

Originally Posted by Arunshek

What you mean by 'even when you are Asian'?
I was in US for 2.5 years and no place i felt i was treated different, or any discrimination. Other way to say is, there is not preferential treatment for anyone. If you live by the rules set by them, rules which are actual rules which needs to be followed by one and all, there's nothing to fear.

Good to hear.
But are you suggesting there is no Racism. Asians are not looked down upon as 2nd class citizen.
Like Shopkeepers wont say hello to you but will to the white guy standing next to you? A white guy will get a job position and you wont even if you are more qualified? I dont know. But these are the stories I hear.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Arunshek

even worse.

What you mean by 'even when you are Asian'?
I was in US for 2.5 years and no place i felt i was treated different, or any discrimination. Other way to say is, there is not preferential treatment for anyone. If you live by the rules set by them, rules which are actual rules which needs to be followed by one and all, there's nothing to fear.

Suppose a Bangladeshi or Pakistani or Sri Lankan were to turn up here in India and lift a job that you were coveting, but for which he was better qualified, would you be tolerant?
Think on it by putting yourself in that position...

[Arunshek]

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

Stand corrected about your exposure to el-dorado, three years is long enough to give up on us as a lost cause. Can't blame you..

It's the frustration of fellow country men. I feel the same too, whenever I encounter such acts.
These are today's examples from the part of country where I live.
It might be as trivial as the statement made by Dy Chief minister of Maharashtra or recent building collapse in Mumbra area. In latter case, approx 74 people got killed. Building was constructed flouting all rules and laws, corruption going to top levels, yet only case registered against them are negligence and corruption, while it clearly shows case of murder.

[Binzone]

Originally Posted by hdus001

This is a fairly accurate conversion:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...ayCurrency=AUD

Your biggest expense would be rent.

Thanks so much for this link, hdus001. Sydney indeed is shockingly expensive! But the public transport appears to be efficient, so living slightly off from the city should be fine.

Originally Posted by h@r$h@l

Hi,

not that i live in sydney but i was there recently for a good 2 months and hence should be able to answer a few of your questions.

1. rental : mainly depends how much time & money you want to save. do you know where your office is located? assuming you are in IT, you would be around North Sydney. The rentals there are quite steep. If you are OK to travel a little bit, you should check out accommodations in and around Westmead area. Which is suberb located around 24 kms from Sydney CBD.

Thanks for the inputs, h@r$h@l. My office is in the heart of CBD, and will have to either be close to this place or to a suburb with easy access to transport. A couple of friends too suggested Westmead, and Rockdale.

Originally Posted by S_U_N

Perhaps you would have made up your mind on the next steps by now.

Thanks, S_U_N, you are spot on! I have decided to take this up after weighing the pros and cons. And yes, my daughter being 2 now, we also felt this is right time.

Once again, thanks for all your inputs, and sorry for responding back late.

[eq24]

Originally Posted by hellmet

I've been getting increasingly frustrated with life in India. A lot of mental energy is spent every minute of the day to make sure you're not over charged and cheated.

My dear man, I totally understand your points and really feel that all your points hold weight but if I may put my points as someone who has lived in the UK for the better part of 9 years, the grass always is greener on the other side.

Let me justify this and by all means a topic such as this can never have one answer or one perfect solution, every one looks at life in a different way and whereas some thing might give someone perfect pleasure it can give another the most excruciating pain.

India as it stands today is a land of opportunity, you will be surprised but the things one can achieve here is simply impossible anywhere else in the world. Add to that the lax nature of the government and a lack of system and you have pure entrepreneurial heaven.

Cost of living in India is peanuts compared to what I used to pay in the UK. Did you know there are more than 3 types of taxes one pays just to the local council. And they are not cheap. The tax structure is too demanding and in the end you might be getting a lot on paper compared to India but the net saving is almost similar if not less than India. Again some people are really good savers and this wont apply to them but most people I knew were not really saving that much.

The utility bills you are worried about in India, they are nothing compared to the UK. In my house in Cardiff, I had a leaky heating pipe and the radiator had gone bust. I had to pay 2500 + GBP in fixing that. I am sure if this was back home 20,000 would have done it.

I have working friends too here in Gurgaon, couples under 30 or thereabouts and netting an annual income (husband + wife) of around 20 to 30 lakh per household and they are living the KING life, going out, spending on clothes, new phones, great cars and in the end they manage to save as well. That kind of Salary in the UK wont get you India style enjoyment.


Truth is UK, Canada, US, Australia are highly saturated now and they are not as much fun to be working in anymore. The other countries you will probably need to learn another language.

Bottom line is this, India as all developing countries will have problems it is inevitable, but try to see the silver light and as I see it India is one shiny disco ball with light every where .I was condemned by one and all on my decision to leave the UK but here I am 2 years on and loving it. And it is not that I was asked to leave, I have PR there and can go back anytime but I really like it here. Yes there are times when you feel like beating people up for making stupid and annoying mistakes and Yes people still do not know how to negotiate a round about but you know if you can't beat em join em. And till now it is fun and I hope it stays fun.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by carboy

You are renting these things from the landlord. So obviously he has to repair/replace them. They account for this in the rent they collect from you (not individually, but the plumber, janitor etc's salary are accounted for in your rent).

That is true.

I guess, a big part of adjusting to a new country is to be ready to do small repairs yourself, for which you have the luxury of calling someone else to do it at a very minor cost.

In a way, "dignity of labour" carries a lot of weight here.

Originally Posted by carboy

I haven't visited malls in New York City, but they probably will have paid parking.

And even in other cities in the West Coast, some malls in the downtown area have paid parking (partly compensated by validation). But yeah, other than downtown parking is usually free and abundant.

I doubt if they will let a new mall come up in the middle of a city here. A mall like Mantri Square in Bangalore would be impossible to build here, what with millions of regulations etc. But then again, its somewhat unfair to compare, given the huge amount of land available here.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Like Shopkeepers wont say hello to you but will to the white guy standing next to you? A white guy will get a job position and you wont even if you are more qualified? I dont know. But these are the stories I hear.

Most of the times, its because we dont say hi to the shopkeepers either! I dont have personal experience of the job scene but i have also heard something similar. Only difference being that the discrimination is against all non-whites, not just asians.

Originally Posted by eq24

Truth is UK, Canada, US, Australia are highly saturated now and they are not as much fun to be working in anymore.

Could you please elaborate on that?

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Guys, why blame another country about racism when it is rampant in our own country?

I have myself faced this several times in India, so if I get something similar or worse, here in Germany, I will just let it pass by. But one thing I noticed here, people associate Indians as colored (dark , brown, wheatish etc.), no matter what color they actually have.

Spike

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by Arunshek

When I was a kid, i thought that once our generation becomes adults, decision makers, something will change. Our place will be a better place. But on the contrary, it's becoming even worse.

Yes, we were told our generation would be the future India. Alas, many of our generation kids left the country for greener pastures and left behind the current set of politicians to govern.

Originally Posted by eq24

... the grass always is greener on the other side.

... every one looks at life in a different way and whereas some thing might give someone perfect pleasure it can give another the most excruciating pain.

Cost of living in India is peanuts compared to what I used to pay in the UK. Did you know there are more than 3 types of taxes one pays just to the local council. And they are not cheap. The tax structure is too demanding and in the end you might be getting a lot on paper compared to India but the net saving is almost similar if not less than India. Again some people are really good savers and this wont apply to them but most people I knew were not really saving that much.

..they are living the KING life, going out, spending on clothes, new phones, great cars and in the end they manage to save as well..


Truth is UK, Canada, US, Australia are highly saturated now and they are not as much fun to be working in anymore. The other countries you will probably need to learn another language.

Yes there are times when you feel like beating people up for making stupid and annoying mistakes and Yes people still do not know how to negotiate a round about but you know if you can't beat em join em. And till now it is fun and I hope it stays fun.

Thank you for that balanced post. I absolutely understand that not everything would be rosy if I leave the country as I have experienced first hand some of the difficulties of living in the US. However, a lot of things that are made unnecessarily hard in India are simple and stress-free in the first world. Also, there really is no value for life here. You set out of the house and pray you don't end up as an accident statistic or an inspiration for a speed breaker somewhere. I used to love walking in the US, but it scares the daylights out of me trying to walk here with someone either trying to run me over or test my ear drums with their honking. Lot more examples, this would get too long.

Yes, India is really hot right now not just for entrepreneurs but also for young professionals like you point out. Developed nations have stagnant pay and are becoming an increasingly difficult market for setting up businesses. The pay hikes in India are incredible and living costs manageable. This money will surely let you afford a lot of 'things', but it will not change your 'quality' of living. Things don't give me happiness either. A simple ride on my cycle in peace gives me much more happiness than a new smart phone can.

It is nice to hear that you are having fun here and I wish you the best along with everyone else that are happy and comfortable in this great nation. India is where I was born and where my heart will always be. I love the food, the sights and smells and the experiences. However, the last few decades (of modernisation) has totally ruined it for me and I'm simply unable to cope with the changes (to the people) it has brought about. Also, I'm a small town boy, now living in a sprawling metro, which could also be one of the reasons.

Thanks for reading!

[Arunshek]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Suppose a Bangladeshi or Pakistani or Sri Lankan were to turn up here in India and lift a job that you were coveting, but for which he was better qualified, would you be tolerant?
Think on it by putting yourself in that position...

What's your point? we are talking about emigration to another country and AFAIK emigration programs are run by the respective governments to fulfil their vacancies as well as invite people to contribute in and develop their economy.