[zaks]

Have worked in the US for sometime and I have seen some Indian families there and it's just one word which springs to mind- "They are lost, emotionally". I am sorry to say that but with some exceptions like people who are in to business and entertainment most appear to have hit the cross roads and don't know what to do. They have good job(for the moment), nice house and a lovely neighbourhood period. And they don't want to return back also because they don't want to be perceived here as failures in their attempts for a better life.
The culture shock is very real, don't even for a moment think what you see in movies or media about those countries is representative of how it's there. This is way different than moving to another indian state or city.

[neoonwheels]

Well I was in a similar dilemma. It was not about permanent migration but a temporary (2-3 years) to US. Me and my wife works in IT product company and all my friends are onsite. For some time I thought I might get a job there for couple of years and then come back. What is holding me back is:

1. Either of us have to compromise on job. If I get L1, wifey's career would be at stake and vice versa. Chances of us getting job and work permit is very less.
2. Here we both are earning good. If theres no gap in wifey's career, she can quickly go up the ladder. No gaps in career and salary raise every year.
3. Both of us are earning more or less equal to my friends who are earning alone. Only advantage they have is, they can visit places there which we can not. We have to spend Indian rupees to go there for travelling.
4. I can be with my family in any emergency. The happiness on my parents face when they see us every evening is priceless.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

1. Either of us have to compromise on job. If I get L1, wifey's career would be at stake and vice versa. Chances of us getting job and work permit is very less.

If you are on L1, wife will be on L2. L2 can get an EAD for work authorisation. IIRC, this concession happened from 2003 or 2004. Before that L2 were not eligible to work unless they got their own H1 done separately.

In my opinion, if possible, one should go & work outside the country for a few years. It gives you exposure to the world, different cultures & gives you a new perspective - all this in both personal & professional front.

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

3. Both of us are earning more or less equal to my friends who are earning alone. Only advantage they have is, they can visit places there which we can not. We have to spend Indian rupees to go there for travelling.

If both of you are earning the same as what they earn alone, then you should be able to afford to visit whatever they can afford - doesn't matter what currency you are spending! Especially considering for the same money earned, your cost of living is less in India than theirs abroad.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by zaks

Have worked in the US for sometime and I have seen some Indian families there and it's just one word which springs to mind- "They are lost, emotionally". I am sorry to say that but with some exceptions like people who are in to business and entertainment most appear to have hit the cross roads and don't know what to do. They have good job(for the moment), nice house and a lovely neighbourhood period. And they don't want to return back also because they don't want to be perceived here as failures in their attempts for a better life.
The culture shock is very real, don't even for a moment think what you see in movies or media about those countries is representative of how it's there. This is way different than moving to another indian state or city.

Rightly said.

I know people who would not return to India because they want to show it off back here in India among their relatives, who are less privileged (as those in US think).

I have my cousin and family living in US for last few years. Their daughter is now almost 2 years, and they say that they will definitely come back to India by the time they should start schooling of their kid. The other option they have is, to let the kid go to school in US itself, thereby losing her there when they come back after several years.

PS: My boss has been asking me to apply for US visa few times, I am just delaying it by purposefully not submitting the VISA application Had enough.

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by zaks

Have worked in the US for sometime and I have seen some Indian families there and it's just one word which springs to mind- "They are lost, emotionally". I am sorry to say that but with some exceptions like people who are in to business and entertainment most appear to have hit the cross roads and don't know what to do. They have good job(for the moment), nice house and a lovely neighbourhood period. And they don't want to return back also because they don't want to be perceived here as failures in their attempts for a better life.
The culture shock is very real, don't even for a moment think what you see in movies or media about those countries is representative of how it's there. This is way different than moving to another indian state or city.

My family has lived in the US since the late 70s, and no, we are not "lost, emotionally".

Originally Posted by clevermax

Rightly said.

I know people who would not return to India because they want to show it off back here in India among their relatives, who are less privileged (as those in US think).

I have my cousin and family living in US for last few years. Their daughter is now almost 2 years, and they say that they will definitely come back to India by the time they should start schooling of their kid. The other option they have is, to let the kid go to school in US itself, thereby losing her there when they come back after several years.

PS: My boss has been asking me to apply for US visa few times, I am just delaying it by purposefully not submitting the VISA application Had enough.

What i dont get is this: If you want to come back, then why go in the first place?

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by clevermax

I have my cousin and family living in US for last few years. Their daughter is now almost 2 years, and they say that they will definitely come back to India by the time they should start schooling of their kid. The other option they have is, to let the kid go to school in US itself, thereby losing her there when they come back after several years.

Originally Posted by CaliAtenza

What i dont get is this: If you want to come back, then why go in the first place?

most people I know with a girl child do want to back before the girls hit the teens. People with boys don't care. I think it all has to do with family honor being measured by girls' behavior but not boys. American values are simply not favored. I have boys so I can't give a balanced view I guess.

[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

most people I know with a girl child do want to back before the girls hit the teens. People with boys don't care. I think it all has to do with family honor being measured by girls' behavior but not boys. American values are simply not favored. I have boys so I can't give a balanced view I guess.

The funny and ironic thing is though, pretty much anything a girl can do there, she can do it in India. Who defined values anyways? For example, i know a 19 year old girl here, wait maybe she's 18, who drinks, smokes (not just ciggarettes), sleeps around, etc, etc. She hasnt left the country once either. Im sure her parents have no idea what her life in college is like, but thats one example.

[VLOCT]

As someone who is a Canadian citizen, who studied and worked (as an engineer) in Canada for six years before moving to the US, I WILL NOT recommend any professional to move to Canada. Unlike US, the system in Canada is designed to put as many obstacles as possible in your path. Hence, the stories of engineers and doctors working as cab drivers and such. You simply will not find that in the US. That's the biggest difference between US and Canada. US will give everyone an equal opportunity. Its upto you to make it. The difficulty is unless you're coming to the US via a family visa or a student visa, you need a job in-hand BEFORE they issue a visa.

In my opinion, Canada simply lies in their propaganda on how they value immigrants. The want engineers and doctors to emigrate and work in their factories and labs as laymen. It's a pure con job. On the other hand, if you're willing to go to school there, you've a much better chance of making it.

Please think hard before you emigrate to Canada. I sincerely hope your relatives are successful in Canada. On the other factors, if one is not willing to be in tune with and accept the good things of the western culture you'll never be happy here.

In my personal case, I love it here. I also love India. I love my friends and family there. I never was much of a cultural snob since, I prefer to take the best of whatever the society has to offer me wherever I am. I do not consider that the Indian Culture is superior to everyone elses' or vice versa. In my personal opinion, if you really want to immigrate, US for all its faults still gives you the most opportunity to really reach your potential and not be looked down upon. Not Canada, not Europe (cannot get past their colonial memories) and certainly not Australia and New Zealand, from what I understand.

One of the most important consideration should also be age. If you're above 45 I wouldn't recommend emigrating to a country and starting over.

I wish you the very best.

[Ace F355]

Originally Posted by VLOCT

As someone who is a Canadian citizen, who studied and worked (as an engineer) in Canada for six years before moving to the US, I WILL NOT recommend any professional to move to Canada. Unlike US, the system in Canada is designed to put as many obstacles as possible in your path. Hence, the stories of engineers and doctors working as cab drivers and such. You simply will not find that in the US. That's the biggest difference between US and Canada. US will give everyone an equal opportunity. Its upto you to make it. The difficulty is unless you're coming to the US via a family visa or a student visa, you need a job in-hand BEFORE they issue a visa.

In my opinion, Canada simply lies in their propaganda on how they value immigrants. The want engineers and doctors to emigrate and work in their factories and labs as laymen. It's a pure con job. On the other hand, if you're willing to go to school there, you've a much better chance of making it.

Please think hard before you emigrate to Canada. I sincerely hope your relatives are successful in Canada. On the other factors, if one is not willing to be in tune with and accept the good things of the western culture you'll never be happy here.

In my personal case, I love it here. I also love India. I love my friends and family there. I never was much of a cultural snob since, I prefer to take the best of whatever the society has to offer me wherever I am. I do not consider that the Indian Culture is superior to everyone elses' or vice versa. In my personal opinion, if you really want to immigrate, US for all its faults still gives you the most opportunity to really reach your potential and not be looked down upon. Not Canada, not Europe (cannot get past their colonial memories) and certainly not Australia and New Zealand, from what I understand.

One of the most important consideration should also be age. If you're above 45 I wouldn't recommend emigrating to a country and starting over.

I wish you the very best.

Rightly said, VLOCT. I find Canada very good for education since its collaborations within USA. About getting a job in Canada for living here permanently (Which I don't even want, but IF I have to), I will think very very hard.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by CaliAtenza

What i dont get is this: If you want to come back, then why go in the first place?

That would mean that one should never leave the city where one was born & should eventually die there.
I have lived in 7 different cities in the last 11 years - in India & abroad.

Originally Posted by VLOCT

That's the biggest difference between US and Canada. US will give everyone an equal opportunity. Its upto you to make it. The difficulty is unless you're coming to the US via a family visa or a student visa, you need a job in-hand BEFORE they issue a visa.

In the US also, you can't get a job visa without a job, unless you are are on a dependent visa.

Originally Posted by VLOCT

In my opinion, Canada simply lies in their propaganda on how they value immigrants. The want engineers and doctors to emigrate and work in their factories and labs as laymen.

Don't understand. If you have a work permit & you are in Canada & someone is willing to employ you as a doctor & engineer, then does the government prevent you from taking up the job?

Originally Posted by VLOCT

I do not consider that the Indian Culture is superior to everyone elses' or vice versa.

Very good attitude to have.
No culture is better or worse - they are different from each other that's all.
People who think Indian culture is better than US culture are the same people who while in India, would have thought that their Tamil Culture is better than North Indian culture, or that their Punjabi Culture is better than Andhra culture or whatever.

[tacho]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

most people I know with a girl child do want to back before the girls hit the teens. People with boys don't care. I think it all has to do with family honor being measured by girls' behavior but not boys. American values are simply not favored. I have boys so I can't give a balanced view I guess.

If I ever have a girl child, I'd rather raise her in America than in India. Would feel the same with boys but not as strongly. But I have no children so I am not entitled to such views I guess

[poloman]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

most people I know with a girl child do want to back before the girls hit the teens. People with boys don't care. I think it all has to do with family honor being measured by girls' behavior but not boys. American values are simply not favored. I have boys so I can't give a balanced view I guess.

Does Indian value system apply only to girls? Whether in India or abroad the sexist or patriarchial behaviour of indians will always come to forefront. It is not the duty of the girl child to protect the family honor.I have a daughter and does not mind whether she grows up in Bangalore, US or anywhere else.

[VLOCT]

Originally Posted by carboy

Don't understand. If you have a work permit & you are in Canada & someone is willing to employ you as a doctor & engineer, then does the government prevent you from taking up the job?

Even if someone is willing to hire you as an Engineer, you'll find that you'll not be accredited as a Professional Engineer since, Canada will not accept your degree as equivalent even though you might have years of experience. A canadian undergraduate on the other hand just writes the P. Eng exam after working under a P. Eng for a certain amount of years and he's done. It'll takes years of examinations and boat loads of money to get them to let you just write the P. Eng exam. I hear things are changing but I'll believe it when it happens. In the US, simple, everyone writes the same exam, period. If you can pass it, you're done.

For doctors, it's even worse. As it stand right now, there simply is no route to let you practice in Canada. No exam, nothing. You have to go back to Med School. Lots of people are trying to change the system. I don't think it has happened yet. In the US again, write the exam, pass it, I believe you can enter Residency and once you finish it, you can practice.

Things might be better for IT professionals. I don't know. But one thing is sure. There simply are not enough opportunities for the 250,000 professional immigrants that land in Canada every year. I think it is much better for non-professionals since, they'll be willing to work for lower paying jobs.

[deutscheafrikar]

Originally Posted by AlokSriva

It seems almost everything has been covered before I could reach this thread

Oh, by the way, did I mention that one's parents, who probably won't be in best of their healths at their ages, would have emotional and physical support of their son..

What better feeling would you have when your mom gives you a hug and tells you what a great job you are doing taking care of her/dad - absolutely priceless..

for me, it had been my parents for whom I came back.

One needs to set the priorities right - period!

Alok you're reply is a great one. I have a close friend who moved to the US with his wife and two kids in 2006 inspite of having a good job, and two big apts in Mumbai..
They've went there for the kids education and because my friend was going up the ladder in Infosys and at 40 they didn't think this opportunity would come again. The had some hard times in the US and nearly contemplated coming back when things were bad.
Now they have a huge house, three cars, a good circle of friends.
What they don't have is the maids and the cooks they had back home. The wife slogs with the house work and the kid at school. They have a cleaning agency who sends someone every two weeks to clean up their house.
What they also don't have is that good feeling of the mother giving them a hug saying to them what a great job they are doing on her husband who undergoes dialysis thrice a week.
Yep you're absolutely correct, one needs to get one's priorities right!

[tsk1979]

This lost "socially and emotionally" thing I do not understand. By that logic, all north Indians who do a job in South India are lost socially and emotionally, and vice a versa for south to north.
the language, culture, social norms, festivals etc., are totally different.
Isn't it better to be lost socially and emotionally in a country with roads and electricity, than be lost socially and emotionally in a place missing infrastructure also.
Given a choice between India and Abroad, the only which stops most people is Family. In India you can be with your family within 2-3 hours in the US, its a trans atlantic/pacific flight.
For somebody who's lived in Punjab whole his life, Bangalore or Chennai or Hyderabad will be more alien than Vancouver.
for somebody from Ahemdabad, chennai would be more alien than California.
So those of you who work far away from your native places, you are already living in a totally different social and cultural environment. I don't think that will be a "deciding factor" unless you have a huge local social circle and family locally.