[Pancham]

So here it comes!! I wanted to ask this question for a long time. i do not expect any replies to thread but just wanted to spread a message.
NOTE: i have nothing against anything or anyone in this forum. Its just that there are some issues in this forum that needs to be solved. We are so many people from all over the country and world. Our mindset is bound to be diversified.
@ MODS..If you find this topic to be irrelevant then please delete it.

I have been a reader of this forum for a long time and have noticed that there is a big problem that has quietly existed in many posts.
Many fellow bhpians have honestly and bravely posted about their experiences on the road. Kudos to ALL!! But here lies the problem. What I mean is that most bhpians bash the poor guy asking him to be more resonsible on road and teach them various lessons on the forum. In a way they behave like they are saints and they have not made a single mistake in their own life. This is what frustrates me. Man.. you are telling a 25yrs old that doing 150+ in Indian roads is dangerous..ok!!! Good Tip!! A few more bhpians second that thought . But is it true that you have never taken the car to that speed on Indian roads.
A recent example is of RAJ's thread regrading the Qualis guy accident.
Why do we act like we have never done this before?? We jump into conclusions and at times act like hypocrites and show how GOODY GOODY we are.

But in reality how responsible are we. How much do we abide by the laws and rules and regulations.???
Do we ALL stick to the speed limits on the city and highways or even parking lots(which is many a times below 10kmph).??
Do we ALL wear seatbelts while going to near by sabjee market thinking that its nearby and nothing would happen.???
How many times have you read members commenting that AIR BAGS are not suitable for India???. LOLZ!! Thats all I can do!!

See i have nothing against anyone. Its just that at times we members( not all. please dont get me wrong) do act like hypocrites. We do act like some good guy who we are actually not.
I think I have been able to convey the message that I wanted to. Please dont get me wrong. I love you all and value your inputs. Cheers!!! Just think about it.

[CPH]

This an interesting but also rather delicate subject. I have been speeding (not in India as I never was there yet) but still would not encourage it. Everyone has been speeding somehow intentionally or maybe even not intentionally. Still, it is wrong even if it is fun.

Nobody in this world is perfect even if politicians think about themselves otherwise. But would it be right to make stand for what is in essence wrong?

A forum that is not in public standing up for what is right, gives a wrong impression to especially xounger people, loses credibility, migh even get in conflicts with national and international laws and last not least might be in some instances morally partly if not fully responsible for casualties and fatalities.

I agree that we neither should be patronising nor hypocritical, but it can't be allowed. What I see as an option is that admin coul 'defuse' the issue by editing the peoples post that are putting speeding into the wrong light (it being bragging,) and tell the 'offenders' not to post in this manner.

[akshay4587]

I do wear my seatbelts everytime i drive,and yes i do drive fast and even rash sometimes.
But remember No one was born as a Bhpian,we are human beings
first,then bhpians.

[prateekm]

Agree with what Akshay has said. I do wear my seatbelts when on the passenger seat, don't drive the car because I ain't 18. Wear a helmet when driving my Dio (for which I have a gearless license). The only rules I might break is a free left or driving fast.

If everyone here tells about their top speeds, street racing, drunken driving, it will portray the community in bad light.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Pancham... I think you are too hard on us (maybe on yourself too!).

I doubt that any of us claim to be perfect. Do I never exceed a speed limit, in UK or India? I exceed them regularly. Does that mean that I can't point out to someone else, for example, that driving on an unlit narrow road, in the rain, in the dark, at much over 30 or 40 kph, let alone 140 kph is suicidally (and potentially murderously) stupid?

(example at random from my brain cells: it is not meant to point to any particular example that may, or may not, include similar elements).

This is an area in which young enthusiasts are joining and taking their cars on the road, every day. It is an area in which those new, young enthusiasts, and some of the older ones too, really need good advice.

I also acknowledge those who are prepared to tell us about their mistakes, and what happened. They can be sure they are going to get a pasting, but still, they post, and others can learn from their experience.

The few that blame everything else but themselves, well, what can we say.

Are we hypocritical? Someone once suggested that one should have one's own life sorted out before counselling others --- to which I say, in that case there would be no counsellors!

I think that the forum proceeds pretty much as it ought!

If everyone here tells about their top speeds, street racing, drunken driving, it will portray the community in bad light.

at least two out of three things in that list is stuff that nobody should ever do. Posting about them is strictly not allowed, and the mods enforce this.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Pancham

I wanted to ask this question for a long time. i do not expect any replies to thread but just wanted to spread a message.
But in reality how responsible are we. How much do we abide by the laws and rules and regulations.???

Responsibility is a state of mind. Drawing from your question:

How responsible are we as BHPians?
How responsible are we as drivers?
How responsible are we as Indians?
How responsible are we as students / teachers?
How responsible are we as parents?
How responsible are we as children, towards our own parents?
How responsible are we as human beings?

And the list could go on endlessly.

If all BHPians were as responsible as you want them to be, the need for the moderators to exist would cease. If, perchance, you did manage to spread the message further to all Indians, and they all abide by the rules, regulations and laws of the land in letter and spirit, the need for the police and judiciary to exist would also cease. And if this message went home to all human beings on Mother Earth, well, we'd be in heaven. But...

...we are like that only!

So can we forget about those rhetorical questions please?

[aargee]

Responsibility is a subjective term & I'm not sure what qualified to measure. First let me answer few points of yours & then come back to pen my thoughts.

Why do we act like we have never done this before

This is quite normal; like the proverb goes - Normal people learns from their mistake & wise men learns from others mistake. So I've done in excess of 100 in thrill; I come back, think about the narrowly escape accident & think may be I should've done 80. Now fortunately or unfortunately I'm cool on all 80's. To me 80 is good, so I start preaching 80 is good until you find someone with a similar experience stating 60's is good & this is the reason for above.

But in reality how responsible are we. How much do we abide by the laws and rules and regulations.???

Except for the speed limits I'm happy to say, I follow all the rules including lane discipline even with two-wheeler.

Do we ALL stick to the speed limits on the city and highways or even parking lots(which is many a times below 10kmph).??

City - No; Highway - No; Parking lots - No.
Reason? No accidents can be prevented at slow speeds or high speeds; but can be prevented, if one drives cautiously, stays alert & most importantly use common sense. I can stick to 10Kmph on parking lot, but not during early morning hours. I can double my alertness level & keep up 30; using 50 is where common sense is required. Hope you got the point.

Do we ALL wear seatbelts while going to near by sabjee market thinking that its nearby and nothing would happen.???

101% yes, if I'm on the car, I wear it all the times. If it is removed, then the next step is to watch the ORVM & open the door.

How many times have you read members commenting that AIR BAGS are not suitable for India???. LOLZ!! Thats all I can do!!

Not suitable or not required??? I'm confused. Who said so? Probably they've millions of insurance in dollars.

As the saying goes that the good & bad should co-exist, if there's a law, then law should be broken; to what extend is a question of subjective again.

[Mr_Bean]

I have completed the poll:

at time I have been a hypocrite, I would not put this as lieing but rather a failure to practice the good things in life.

[FlyingSpur]

Without meaning to sound offensive, I don't see the point of this thread.

I had made a few points in my mind on reading the opening post, but Thad E Ginathom has pretty much covered it.

I think that the forum proceeds pretty much as it ought!

Sums it up.

We are ALL hypocrites in some way or the other. Doesn't mean that if we've clocked 150 on some misguided day of our lives, we lose the right to question a bus driver's rash driving and lane-changing. It'll do more good than anything else. Heck, we probably did 150 because there wasn't anyone around us to stop us from doing it. We should have had a hypocrite around then, it would have prevented us from doing what we did.

[vinaydas]

Well Moderation exists on the forum not IRL.
I do "Bend" the rules sometimes(speeding a bit and not major offenses such as DUI or Jumping signals etc) . But absolutely I would hate it if some one tries to "Moderate" me IRL(unless if it is the proper authorities. ) giving me reasons such as you are a "Bhpian" you need to act responsibly ,TBHP is a forum and lets keep it that way what you do in the Real world has its own consequences and you and you alone are responsible for it and no forum or person can force make you do the right or wrong thing(unless it is the Law where you are forced to do so if not, be ready to face the fruits of your action)

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Pancham

What I mean is that most bhpians bash the poor guy asking him to be more resonsible on road and teach them various lessons on the forum. In a way they behave like they are saints and they have not made a single mistake in their own life. This is what frustrates me. Man.. you are telling a 25yrs old that doing 150+ in Indian roads is dangerous..ok!!! Good Tip!! A few more bhpians second that thought . But is it true that you have never taken the car to that speed on Indian roads.

A recent example is of RAJ's thread regrading the Qualis guy accident.
Why do we act like we have never done this before?? We jump into conclusions and at times act like hypocrites and show how GOODY GOODY we are.

this is what i have noticed many times on this forum. not only in my above mentioned thread, but also in various other threads.

we have witnessed many 'mob' encounters on our streets where the driver of a vehicle gets bashed up, nobody is bothered to ask the reasons or to see who is actually at fault. many members here are not very different from the 'mob' we see on our roads. they just 'attack' the thread starter with their harsh & often very personal & offending comments.

i wont name anybody here & no offenses meant to any.

But in reality how responsible are we. How much do we abide by the laws and rules and regulations.???
Do we ALL stick to the speed limits on the city and highways or even parking lots(which is many a times below 10kmph).??
Do we ALL wear seatbelts while going to near by sabjee market thinking that its nearby and nothing would happen.???
How many times have you read members commenting that AIR BAGS are not suitable for India???. LOLZ!! Thats all I can do!!

these so called 'saints' should first do a reality check on themselves, as you rightly said.

well, i agree. i am not a COMPLETE law abiding citizen. i have broken the speed limits many times. i dont necessarily stop before the white line in a signal. but at the same time-

1) i do wear a seatbelt even if its just a 2 min drive
2) i do use my indicators generously- while turning, changing lanes, parking, etc.
3) i do check all the lights of my car regularly
4) i never break a traffic light or proceed before the signal is green

See i have nothing against anyone. Its just that at times we members( not all. please dont get me wrong) do act like hypocrites. We do act like some good guy who we are actually not.
I think I have been able to convey the message that I wanted to. Please dont get me wrong. I love you all and value your inputs. Cheers!!! Just think about it.

i have seen many comments like "you dont deserve to have that T-BHP sticker on your car" types!!! IMO, thats the most ridiculous comment someone can say! having a T-BHP sticker on your car simply means you are proud to be a part of a community. but in no ways does it imply that you are the safest, most respectable & law abiding driver around.

[pypkmsrikanth]

I doubt if we could find one person in the entire forum who has not been on the wrong side driving all these years. I have read some comments here in one of the threads of how foolish the police are to put speed limits of 70 kmph in certain stretches, by that logic the police must be foolish as well to have 24 hours on signals, after all the traffic is pretty less so why not leave the crossing of Jns.' to respective drivers?

Rules pretty much exist to be followed whether one decides to follow one set of rule and claim that the other set of rules are foolish is signs of hypocrisy in my opinion. Let me admit I am hypocrite so I rarely advice other drivers how to drive or what mistakes they made. Incidentally I voted the same as well in the poll.

[A350XWB]

Originally Posted by Pancham

Do we ALL stick to the speed limits on the city and highways or even parking lots(which is many a times below 10kmph).??
Do we ALL wear seatbelts while going to near by sabjee market thinking that its nearby and nothing would happen.???

I stick to speed limits in parking lots, atleast inside my apartment block. (Highways & City - Not usually)
I always wear the seat belt even if it's a very short drive.

But, I'm not a saint either. I've had my share of rash driving but after becoming a member of Tbhp and also some advice from my wife, I'm learning to become more responsible. Nowadays, if I get an adrenalin rush to go behind somebody, I pull over, take a deep breath and relax.

[lamborghini]

There is no doubt that I have been a hypocrite.
- I started learning below the age of 18.
- I have been significantly over the speed limit a number of times
- I have done stunts in my car and have come quite close to hitting others due to this.

However, the main question here is -
Have I learnt from all these incidents, and T-BHP? Yes, I have!

I personally believe I have become a better driver, except that I might speed a bit at times. My excuse being that driving at 50kmph at Marine Drive at 1am, can get a bit tiring.

[Pancham]

Thank You all for being so frank and giving such candid replies. Good to see the results of the poll as well.
I want to make one thing clear friends. This is not a debate just an issue. So dont go about saying "I have never done this..I have never done that.." Who is blaming you for heaven's sake..This is put forward on a general basis. Its such a topic which I thought must be shared.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Pancham... I think you are too hard on us (maybe on yourself too!).

I doubt that any of us claim to be perfect. Do I never exceed a speed limit, in UK or India? I exceed them regularly. Does that mean that I can't point out to someone else, for example, that driving on an unlit narrow road, in the rain, in the dark, at much over 30 or 40 kph, let alone 140 kph is suicidally (and potentially murderously) stupid?

(example at random from my brain cells: it is not meant to point to any particular example that may, or may not, include similar elements).

This is an area in which young enthusiasts are joining and taking their cars on the road, every day. It is an area in which those new, young enthusiasts, and some of the older ones too, really need good advice.

I also acknowledge those who are prepared to tell us about their mistakes, and what happened. They can be sure they are going to get a pasting, but still, they post, and others can learn from their experience.

The few that blame everything else but themselves, well, what can we say.

Are we hypocritical? Someone once suggested that one should have one's own life sorted out before counselling others --- to which I say, in that case there would be no counsellors!

see the point is that if you are not perfect and you are doing stuff which you should not do then why blame others when they do the same thing and get into some mess.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Responsibility is a state of mind. Drawing from your question:

How responsible are we as BHPians?
How responsible are we as drivers?
How responsible are we as Indians?
How responsible are we as students / teachers?
How responsible are we as parents?
How responsible are we as children, towards our own parents?
How responsible are we as human beings?

And the list could go on endlessly.

If all BHPians were as responsible as you want them to be, the need for the moderators to exist would cease. If, perchance, you did manage to spread the message further to all Indians, and they all abide by the rules, regulations and laws of the land in letter and spirit, the need for the police and judiciary to exist would also cease. And if this message went home to all human beings on Mother Earth, well, we'd be in heaven. But...

...we are like that only!

So can we forget about those rhetorical questions please?

The question is NOT..
How responsible are we as drivers?
How responsible are we as Indians?
How responsible are we as students / teachers?
How responsible are we as parents?
How responsible are we as children, towards our own parents?
How responsible are we as human beings?

My question is why do we go around blaming other people and acting like a hypocrite and do the same thing ourselves later thinking that we are good enough in that field(say driving for example). We can just keep mum and not show off how responsible we are which we are not in real life.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

this is what i have noticed many times on this forum. not only in my above mentioned thread, but also in various other threads.

we have witnessed many 'mob' encounters on our streets where the driver of a vehicle gets bashed up, nobody is bothered to ask the reasons or to see who is actually at fault. many members here are not very different from the 'mob' we see on our roads. they just 'attack' the thread starter with their harsh & often very personal & offending comments.

i wont name anybody here & no offenses meant to any.

these so called 'saints' should first do a reality check on themselves, as you rightly said.

well, i agree. i am not a COMPLETE law abiding citizen. i have broken the speed limits many times. i dont necessarily stop before the white line in a signal. but at the same time-

1) i do wear a seatbelt even if its just a 2 min drive
2) i do use my indicators generously- while turning, changing lanes, parking, etc.
3) i do check all the lights of my car regularly
4) i never break a traffic light or proceed before the signal is green

i have seen many comments like "you dont deserve to have that T-BHP sticker on your car" types!!! IMO, thats the most ridiculous comment someone can say! having a T-BHP sticker on your car simply means you are proud to be a part of a community. but in no ways does it imply that you are the safest, most respectable & law abiding driver around.

Point taken-"Do the check on yourself and then comment on other peoples' activities". This is what I want to say.

Originally Posted by A350XWB

I stick to speed limits in parking lots, atleast inside my apartment block. (Highways & City - Not usually)
I always wear the seat belt even if it's a very short drive.

But, I'm not a saint either. I've had my share of rash driving but after becoming a member of Tbhp and also some advice from my wife, I'm learning to become more responsible. Nowadays, if I get an adrenalin rush to go behind somebody, I pull over, take a deep breath and relax.

Good to see that you are frank enough to say such a thing.
TBHP (and wives) do change people.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

There is no doubt that I have been a hypocrite.
- I started learning below the age of 18.
- I have been significantly over the speed limit a number of times
- I have done stunts in my car and have come quite close to hitting others due to this.

However, the main question here is -
Have I learnt from all these incidents, and T-BHP? Yes, I have!

I personally believe I have become a better driver, except that I might speed a bit at times. My excuse being that driving at 50kmph at Marine Drive at 1am, can get a bit tiring.

Good to see that you learnt something and it is because of TBHP. Cheers friend!!


I had once read on a T-Shirt--" Everything is legal until you get caught"
We do a lot of things every day and escape without getting caught. But when we see someone else getting messed up doing the same thing then we jump on them saying-- you are wrong..you should have done this..you should have done that..if i were u i would have done that..
The GYANS are perfectly justified only when you stick to your words or when you are saying the truth that you would have actually done that. There is no point saying I have never done that..I have done this...Fine you never ever did that but we are so many members here..what about them?? Just 5-10 people claiming that they dont do such things does not mean others are clean!! Its a huge forum and has a good number of members. So it is a waste of time to debate over such a thing.
As I said just an expression of my views and observations.