[vivekiny2k]

banning child labor without having a social safety net for "all" children is sheer stupidity (can't think of a better term) for a government. Also, the govt can do nothing if the child becomes self employed, while probably doing the same kind of work.

I think the whole idea was to stop exploitation, and should become void if the children are paid at the same rate as adults.

about actors, a sad story that comes to my mind is the star of "home alone", whose parents blew up all his money fighting each other in court. I was reading about gary coleman who died last week who sued his parents for mismanagement of his money. lucky for him they had not blown it up. Our own amisha patel had a bad run with her parents over mismanagement and considered suing them.

[Gansan]

@aargee
A kid working part time for pocket money/school expenses is not really child labour IMHO. Provided it is voluntary and does not tax him physically and stunt his development! And he/she is not exploited in the process.

A kid working as pizza / news paper delivery boy part time is not child labour.

Same kid working 9 hours in a match factory is child labour.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by bblost

Hence movie/ drama's maybe exempted.

Well, this exception is what I'm confused all about

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

Also, the govt can do nothing if the child becomes self employed, while probably doing the same kind of work.

Wow!!! this is a new dimension to think!!!

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

I think the whole idea was to stop exploitation, and should become void if the children are paid at the same rate as adults.

And add to that, if the child prefers to work over studies

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

about actors, a sad story that comes to my mind is the star of "home alone", whose parents blew up all his money fighting each other in court. I was reading about gary coleman who died last week who sued his parents for mismanagement of his money. lucky for him they had not blown it up. Our own amisha patel had a bad run with her parents over mismanagement and considered suing them.

Yes so much of inside things going on & so little things coming out; none of us know what's going on after the movie ends with their personal life. If one considers that child labour spoils the education, this type of earning spoils the entire family as such.

Originally Posted by Gansan

A kid working part time for pocket money/school expenses is not really child labour IMHO. Provided it is voluntary and does not tax him physically and stunt his development! And he/she is not exploited in the process.

Exploitation is the word; It all started off with children below 8 working in mines for 12+ hours & gradually to the state of law that we see now on child labour. But did you know Sir, that the Govt prohibits even working in part time no matter even it is to support their education. That's the reason I quoted the example of icecream parlour. The work environment is good, work only for part time, yet the owner will get jailed for hiring.

Originally Posted by Gansan

A kid working as pizza / news paper delivery boy part time is not child labour.

Sorry Sir, it is actually . If you say they're working only for part time, then working at hotels, matchbox factory, fields, car manufacturing, workshop, laundry, plumbing can also be considered, provided, they work part time.

Originally Posted by Gansan

Same kid working 9 hours in a match factory is child labour.

Right; just think about the point that I conveyed earlier. Same child working in cine industry forgoing studies, why isn't it considered child labour? Probably bblost says, there's no substitute for 5+. So if a job demands to be carried out by a 5+ will it be exempted from child labour?

To me, it sounded like this; Parents of a 5+ or the kid, earns a respectable money by (selling) getting the child acted in movies though they're in a position to afford education. On the other side, I see few children, who wants to work to buy books to pursue their education. The former is need for fame, the latter is the need for necessity, but termed as child labour; quite irony!!!

[Gansan]

Well, here is something I Googled:

Child labour in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, I deduce that if a kid is employed in any field not specified here, which does not interrupt his education guaranteed under the constitution, is not hazarduous, and he is not exploited, then it is not child labour!

[zaks]

So, basically it all boils down to whether the child is exploited or not. We can probably take that as anything against it's will and/or affecting it's healthy development.

[aargee]

So going by what is deduced, child labour is one where the kid is employed at a place which is hazardous, forgo education, exploited & affects healthy development. Well doesn't the cine industry also does the same? To an extend, exploitation (in what way?) may not be prevailing, however, I can see all other attributes in force & STILL it is considered legal.

While a child, to support his/her family, to make a one day meal, to pursue education should never take up a job & the entire world considers this violation of law.

[vivekiny2k]

I take back (if) anything I said about child artists not coming under labor laws.

this is nothing but child labor at it's worst. I will just repeat some of what I wrote in my blog tonight. Whom should one approach to stop this non-sense?

Child artists: Glamorized version of child Labor
Reality show rebuke paralyses Kolkata teenager

I first noticed it in the "food network star" and "america's next top model" (courtesy my wife, I get to watch these channels quite often). The trend that kept repeating over and over again was making the participants cry, putting immense pressure on them, holding the final results for a few minutes with absurd tactics, just watching such shows was painful. But I knew this is what the audience was watching the program for, and they had to give what audience asked for.

And then, like most other things, this was also copied in India. the musical talent show, the dance talent show, everything was full of the same tactics. At times I was afraid a participant could get a cardiac arrest with all that suspense build up.

But they really went overboard when they implemented it in children's talent shows. First, as the news items discuss, having children in such shows is killing their childhood. We just need to see the drill they go thru everyday with the pressure to perform on stage. They are supposed to be studying and chasing butterflies at that age. And then they try to create the same emotional drama by "I want to say something" after every performance, and most of the times failing because they have no idea what they are trying to do. I am pretty sure this is encouraged or planned by the masterminds too just to increase the television viewer ratings.

How far are we going to take it? this is real child labor that has to stop, before somebody is hurt again.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

this is real child labor that has to stop, before somebody is hurt again.

Just stumbled upon this thread after a month's time;
Vivek - You're absolutely right & you nailed the truth; this is something less exposed to public as these are behind the camera. You expressed some of the things that I didn't know too; thanks for that.

That's why I've a feeling that a child working to help a family is far to be considered better & promoted rather than a child exhibiting talent in front of the camera as there's absolutely no difference in terms of "labour" between both of them.

Edit - Vivek the link you provided - http://www.merinews.com/article/chil...15822425.shtml, is absolutely great; it talks the reality what I've been trying to convey in this thread.

[evo8]

This may be a OT to this thread(related to Child labour), but I had to share this I saw in one the forums I'm a member of. Every picture has a story, You should definitely see the "The siblings" on page 4. That's a moving picture.

[Mio Cade] - Philippines (NGO project) - ClubSNAP Photography Forums

[vivekiny2k]

last weekend saw an episode of dance india dance, where the teacher said the kid was comfortable with doing the stunt.

There is a reason minors are not allowed to make their own decisions.they have no idea what they are going thru and what they are supposed to be doing. They may think jumping down from a bridge is cool too. I am surprised his parents did not raise any voice either, guessing they have been told it's all safe.

Problem is, there is nobody to stand for them. govt is inert as usual, and parents don't care.

[aargee]

@evo8 - Mind blowing pic quality but little (read it little) disheartening to see children working for their livelihood. I feel sad for the little unprivileged because they're destined to do those work at such early age, but, I sincerely wish they live like a King when they grow up. But there's a world of difference between them & the what Vivek & I are discussing about. Cutting long story short - better allow those children to work, atleast they're making a livelihood or trying to eat by their ONLY earning, not an extra income.

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

Problem is, there is nobody to stand for them. govt is inert as usual, and parents don't care

Exactly my point too; no one wants to see behind the scenes. I think that's one of the reason why Govt is also inert on this. See both the situation...
1. A child is serving food on a table in a hotel; the guy who eats from the hotel is from human commission. Aah!!! he makes a big news saying the child is treated bad, beaten, forced to work all day & night, paid little, doing strenous work & what not? Why? Because all he see is the child working in a hotel.

2. A child crying on the TV screen; the same guy who watches from human commission thinks, "oh!!! what a talent, at a such small age". What he doesn't see is behind the screen as he doesn't go to shooting spot everyday. Who knows what kind of treatment is prevailing over there? Is the child really interested to show the face or forced to by lurking the fame & money.

My point - The first case could be necessity to support, the second one could be the need to make additional income. What a world this is?

[Technocrat]

This is purely my opinion but I think one of primary reasons for Child Labor ban is to -

- Avoid Child Abuse that used to(or still) happens with underage kids at the hands of their employers

- Avoid/ ban forceful employment of underage kids

- Ensure kids(who want to work willingly) are not put to jobs not suitable for their age (e.g. a kid can be put to do Lawn mowing work but he cant be put in as a construction or factory labor)

As Indians are experts in finding loop holes the law was probably made common across the board.

Coming back to Cine artists it is very easy to ensure or find out that the kid didnt go through any experience which was unhealthy or Dangerous for him/her.

Also if you have to bring every kid on same table, what about the underage kids who race professionally in Karting &/or other sports? I mean they either pay or get paid(or atleast hope to get paid at some point in future) for doing that.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Ensure kids(who want to work willingly) are not put to jobs not suitable for their age (e.g. a kid can be put to do Lawn mowing work but he cant be put in as a construction or factory labor)

I couldn't get this point; appreciate an elaboration.

Originally Posted by Technocrat

As Indians are experts in finding loop holes the law was probably made common across the board.

Exactly; but this is not only in India, but an international problem. Kids at very early age are involved in acting too.

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Coming back to Cine artists it is very easy to ensure or find out that the kid didnt go through any experience which was unhealthy or Dangerous for him/her.

No it is not; infact, most of the things going behind the screen are covered up with currency & its very easy to get it done there compared to construction/hotel/road side business.

Originally Posted by Technocrat

what about the underage kids who race professionally in Karting &/or other sports? I mean they either pay or get paid(or atleast hope to get paid at some point in future) for doing that.

Sports is all together a different category; Reason? Its talent not money that brings people into such top level. If one does not have talent, they can never shine with sports. Its easy to see a sibling of politician getting into politics or an actor's sibling into acting, but extremely difficult to see a son of sportman/woman into sports, ofcourse there're exceptional cases.

[aargee]

This is exactly the point that I was trying to say 5 years ago!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axL22VURuFk

[luvDriving]

Child labour can simply be defined as the use of an under age (below 14 by law I think) child for monetary gain or compensation for services rendered. This law sought to ban use of child labour in places such as firework factories, automotive garages, places of hard labour and such like where the child was most likely to be exploited.

We see umpteen instances of child labour even today in chai shops or in shops which have children for cleaning/sweeping the place at the start of the day. I think the willingness of the child can be due to simply the need of the family or force by the family. But at the same time, children of such age cannot think of the whole picture e.g. benefits of an education, their rights etc. Given an option, most will choose to go to school or do something else other than the job thrust upon them.

Of course, once in school and having graduated, the same child may later wonder if it would have been better to stay at the job (maybe leading to owning a business) rather than have a degree in hand and no prospects.

I think it is necessary to also define child labour as being separate than slavery - to which begging children on the street are exposed to and are unwilling victims.