[Indian Ranger]

A different perspective from an article which i received apparently written by a Britisher in response to Americans blaming BP for the mess.

"BP was initially called British Petroleum when it was British. Some 10 years back an American company called AMOCO joined British Petroleum and it changed its name to BP since 40% of stake is American, 40% is British and the rest owned by other countries including Russia.

Now think on this, The Oil rig is owned by American company which moved to Switzerland to avoid taxes. The company who ran the rig was a fully owned American Company. BP only owns the sites, so why is it BP's fault?

Is it fair to berate a company that did not actually cause the problem yet is still committed to clearing up at what ever expense that was caused in their name?
I am not even going to think in details about the American bosses who behaved when thousands died at the American Owned facility in Bhopal. You might like to note that the American company Transocean has been in the Texan courts trying to limit their liabilities.However the judge refused. BP has not tried to limit their liability in any way.

I am not a fan of oil companies, but false witness is just not right and the way americans behaved including President Obama is nothing less than that.

If BP is to take chapter 11, American people will have to pay for the clean up. Are the dividends that important? They are so for the hundreds of the pensioners whose income comes from these shares held by the pension companies.

Let me put it this way. You need a package delivered. You ask XYZ deliveries to take it. XYZ hires a truck from 123 trucks. The truck is badly maintained and the driver is not very experienced. The truck hists the pot hole in the road and because it is not in good condition, a wheel falls off. The driver hits the gas rather than the brake, mounts the curb, hits the shop and spills all its parcels and diesel on the road. When the police turn up, who do you think they will blame? From the way you are treating BP it must be you, mustn't it?
There is no doubt this is a disaster but muck slinging is not the way to solve it. Working together is."

Thought I would share it here in order to give a different meaning to this discussion. I felt this message does have a lot of meaning since BP has actually promised a huge amount for the affected.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by CPH

I have just from Greenpeace sources heard that they are clueless, but continue to play a story to make themselves looking good. With my own efforts to bring a solution I can confirm the Greenpeace position.

The relief drillings, which BP puts their hope on have no guarantee of success and can take a much longer time than presently claimed.

BP staff is fooling themselves not realising that they are right now digging their grave. Industry experts predicting by now a possible bankruptcy of BP.
.

Looks like BP have cracked it.

While the jury still rests on the safety procedures, beneath the gaffes and silly PR, BP have been doing what they could, assumed responsibility to

1: Release cash for clean up
2: Plugged the well effectively (subject to third party validation)

Again the US should also be blamed for not regulating safety norms for deep sea drilling.

BTW no one said anything about the huge oil leakage in China

[harishnair]

Why doesn't anyone care about what these oil companies including the US based Exxon-Mobil is doing in Nigeria have been doing in Nigeria for decades. Thousands of people died and many are still suffering from chronic diseases for what happened in Bhopal.

BP should have been more stringent with their safety infrastructure. The US govt. regulatory bodies also should have been more careful in proving clearances.But, a spill has happened and BP on their part has done what ever is possible to be done to contain the spill and have set aside enough money to cover the compensation payouts. Such a spill had never happened earlier in history and no one had any technology to successfully stop/control it. They were lot of possible suggestions on controlling it,but none of these theories were ever practically tested. Digging the relief wells was the only way out and the containment cap acted as a temporary solution till the completion of the wells.

Plotting to shut down BP is just foolish and without taking into account the bigger picture.Nearly 100,000 people are directly employed by BP and thousands more are indirectly involved with BP. Both US and UK will stand to lose by the demise of BP and at these hard times of global slowdown no one can afford it. Protecting the environment shouldn't come at the cost of risking peoples livelihood.

Instead of asking people to stop filling at BP's pumps, we should be asking them to do the contrary or else if BP goes bankrupt then the people affected by this oil spill will be the losers and not the company.

These type of spills are our own creation, had we shifted to more energy efficient ways in our daily lives then these companies wouldn't have had to risk digging such deep-sea wells. The only way to prevent such spills in future is to move away from the conventional fuels and move to something like hydrogen for fueling our cars. Electric cars are not the future, they use electricity which is majorly produced using these highly polluting conventional energy sources.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Looks like BP have cracked it.

While the jury still rests on the safety procedures, beneath the gaffes and silly PR, BP have been doing what they could, assumed responsibility to

1: Release cash for clean up
2: Plugged the well effectively (subject to third party validation)

Again the US should also be blamed for not regulating safety norms for deep sea drilling.

BTW no one said anything about the huge oil leakage in China

The way they went about was pathetic, ignoring solutions that would stopped the leak 2 months earlier and mad the well still usable.

The only ones that are cracked there are the minds behind the whole operation.

The anount of cash needed to clean up what they have done does not exist.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by harishnair

Why doesn't anyone care about what these oil companies including the US based Exxon-Mobil is doing in Nigeria have been doing in Nigeria for decades. Thousands of people died and many are still suffering from chronic diseases for what happened in Bhopal.

true, one should read this book to understand how oil has determined politics (and war and conflicts) in the world. We are fretting over an accident overlooking voluntary misdoings by these companies. In their defence, all corporate dealings have some dirty truth about them.

Amazon.com: Crude: The Story of Oil (9781583226254): Sonia Shah: Books

[aerohit]

You are being unfair.

If you people went by the rules or if you were human enough, you would rather not buy your overpriced fuel at Shell.
Do you know how Shell dig holes in Nigeria and just leave?

The Nigerias intentional Shell spill dwarfs BPs accidental gulf spill.

BBC News - Nigeria: 'World oil pollution capital'

"Those living in Nigeria's oil-rich delta are suffering a "human rights tragedy" inflicted by decades of environmental damage caused in large part by Royal Dutch Shell, Amnesty International claimed"

Report blames Shell over 'cover-up' of Nigeria's oil spills - Africa, World - The Independent

Shell has brought extreme, irreparable environmental devastation to Ogoniland, Nigeria. Please note that although the case of the Ogoni is the best known of communities in Shell's areas of operation, dozens of other groups suffer the same exploitation of resources and injustices.

Independent auditors estimate that up to 13 million barrels of oil have been spilt in the Delta, an amount equivalent to an Exxon Valdez disaster every year for 40 years. The Niger Delta is home to some 31 million people, the majority of whom live in abject poverty despite the $600bn in oil revenues generated since extraction began in 1958. Nigeria's own watchdog reports that there are 2,000 current spills, the majority of them from Shell operations.


I, personally dont care about BP Gulf spill as of now.


I bycott Shell, did you?

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by CPH

The way they went about was pathetic, ignoring solutions that would stopped the leak 2 months earlier and mad the well still usable.

The only ones that are cracked there are the minds behind the whole operation.

The anount of cash needed to clean up what they have done does not exist.

With due respect, what assurance would be given that the solution would work? Did they come from an accredited expert? Were these solutions given to an independent expert or even the US authorities to validate?

Having been involved in crisis management, one would focus on the most probable solution and look at alternatives if the credibility was there. To be fair, there would have been 1000's of folks - from actual experts to undertakers with solutions. Looking at every solution means losing time to salvaging existing one.

They are selling assets to pay for the clean up. A quick look at their balance sheet shows they are fairly strong to bear this so far but again so many figures are being bandied about

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by aerohit

I bycott Shell, did you?

so whom do you support now?

[prince_pervez]

All major corporations have a history of bad deeds, some covered up to be unveiled some time or the other, some open to public. Without this they can never reach where they are now. I believe Shell had its operating license cancelled in the late 80's or early 90's in India.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by aerohit

I bycott Shell, did you?

Are you boycotting Coca-Cola as well, after the Kerala incident?

[aerohit]

It appears large number of people have a tendency to get to the tail of the topic rather than the head of the topic. But since the tail is always twisted, let me clarify the 'tail wagging'...

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

so whom do you support now?

Everything else.

Originally Posted by Gansan

Are you boycotting Coca-Cola as well, after the Kerala incident?

That is me (click) at an undisclosed African location. Having already traveled many other countries, this is where I choose to spend my annual vacation occasionally. I dont need your 'designer watches', 'concrete malls', or your USD or GBP. I just want Freedom. This place is like Freedom. I obviously do not want this water to turn brown - like the one probably found in your native village or city. Do I ? Please dont ruin my vacation. I obviously do not want Shell to ruin it.

Had i been a (cola) drinker, I wouldnt have been able to maintain my weight or physical well being, as visible in the photo, I obviously do not want Aspartame in my body or die early.

Its not about boycotting, its about personal choice based on facts, where citizens of a civilized society collectively unite to take humane steps, rather than 'tail wagging'. Its about punishing the offender so that they can correct themselves. If you are indeed a cola drinker, please do continue, no ones stopping. For me, its like good riddance.

No wonder, in India there is no blue water to be found anywhere (no point including Maldives). This is all because of the ignorance of its 'tail wagging' majority - both outside or inside the country. One needs to think beyond 'value for money'.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by aerohit

It appears large number of people have a tendency to get to the tail of the topic rather than the head of the topic. But since the tail is always twisted, let me clarify the 'tail wagging'...


Everything else.

first of all, following the tail is not the same as tail wagging.

second, the point I raised was also raised in the second post of the thread by me.

so you hear an incident by shell and decide to boycott it, but you still drive/fly on fuel assuming what you are promoting is clean?

trust me, for every drop of oil produced today, there is a story. the easy oil has been extracted and all companies have to go after the tough oil, beating weather, politics, humanity and what not. exxon mobil, BP, shell doesn't make any difference.

I am not promoting any of them, but just telling you that singling out a company doesn't help any cause. If you want to go clean, bycottt oil, not shell or BP.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by ajmat

With due respect, what assurance would be given that the solution would work? Did they come from an accredited expert? Were these solutions given to an independent expert or even the US authorities to validate?

Having been involved in crisis management, one would focus on the most probable solution and look at alternatives if the credibility was there. To be fair, there would have been 1000's of folks - from actual experts to undertakers with solutions. Looking at every solution means losing time to salvaging existing one.

They are selling assets to pay for the clean up. A quick look at their balance sheet shows they are fairly strong to bear this so far but again so many figures are being bandied about

What experts. The problem was that there were no experts present till date! And this is what I hold against them! They pretended and lied.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by CPH

What experts. The problem was that there were no experts present till date! And this is what I hold against them! They pretended and lied.

Agreed on that point, but I do maintain that they did a good job in capping the leak as committed. I am in no way praising them or condoning the mess and pollution. My issue is that it is too much to expect anyone off the street to go and advise them. It is like me trying to go and resolve the Afghan crisis. How do you know your solution will work? How do you think that they will listen to a automobile engineer ? You probably needed to have got an exxpert validation to the solution and used a more influential channel. (local MP or simillar).

[harishnair]

Originally Posted by CPH

What experts. The problem was that there were no experts present till date! And this is what I hold against them! They pretended and lied.

How can you be so sure, were you directly involved in the disaster management process. A company which is spending billions to plug the well and a country which themselves claim to be the most advanced in the world must have put all their best minds in to this process. If they didn't do this then it's not BP, but the US govt. which is at fault. The spillage was affecting the livelihood of the people in US and it is the government's responsibility to help stop it or atleast make sure that the company involved does this.

Reportedly,the joint command operated by US and BP received some 35000 suggestions in one month. Many might have been great or rather brilliant ideas but it will take months to sort these out and bring them to practical application. BP themselves had mentioned earlier that if they go about testing each and every suggestion then they would never be able to plug the oil leak. I agree with them on this, when you are in the middle of a huge crisis which is affecting your company's revenue, public image, people's livelihood, environment etc. it is not possible to go for a trial and error method of problem solving.