The Cricket Thread

mclaren1885 · 27th June 2007, 12:50

E_L, I don't think this is the first time we have seen Sachin run out on 99 or 149. I have seen this happen earlier. Call him selfish, but almost every cricketer is when they get into the 90's. People like Adam and Matthew prefer hitting it out of the park to calm their nerves down in the 90's, Sachin prefers getting there with singles and twos. I see nothing wrong in that. Each has his own way. And remember at the end of the day people remember you for the records not those few brilliant knocks once in a while. Afridi is remembered because of his quickest 100, Sir Don Bradman for his exemplary average, Shane Warne and Murali for their sheer number of wickets and so on. Similarly Sachin for his centuries, for its very easy for people to forget a good/bad performance within a short period of time. Do you see Warne or Murali not looking at getting a wicket every ball? I remember when Anil got a perfect 10 against the Paki's Srinath intentionally bowled wide. Was anil selfish too? They are all professionals who come with one aim. To make a mark, to get into history books (given a chance you and me would like to too). Records, stats are a vital part of their game. I have seen Michael almost clobber Ralph into the walls to take the lead at French GP? How come most of us worship MS for his selfishness and shrude tactics?

Coming to Sachin, from what I have noticed over the years he always looks to convert 1's to 2's just to get to the century mark sooner should he find the fielder to be standing deep or if he has played the ball with soft hands. I have seen him umpteen number of times converting such runs and reaching 100's in both forms of the game. Its an old habit so to speak. Sometimes it doesn't work. And he is still lightening quick between the wickets.

rks · 27th June 2007, 14:50

Sachin scores 99 off 143 deliveries. Just over 4 an over for 24 overs. The rest of the team has to score at almost 6 an over for 26 overs to get the score to 250+. Once upon a time this was OK, but not today, and not against SA. We needed at least 275 to put up a fight against SA and that means Sachin expects the rest of the team to score at 7 an over for 25 overs, while he potters along at 4 per over. Sad that the commentators or press had nothing to say about this.

Another 30 runs from Sachin and the game would have been won for India. Why can't the man open up even after getting to a personal score of 50? If he got out, players like Yuvraj and Dinesh Karthik would have had more time to push the score along. And to think that younger and fitter players like Mohd. Kaif have to languish while Sachin chases records at the team's expense.

Gautham Gambhir's technique looks suspect and he might find the going tough against quality seam bowling on responsive pitches.

On the positive side, Piyush Chawla was a good find. But South Africans are bad players of spin bowling. His real test will come against the likes of Australia/SL/Pakistan.

mclaren1885 · 27th June 2007, 16:02

Rks, you need to dig a little deeper into the game to understand how it works. There are some factors known as weather conditions, dryness/moisture in the pitch, whether the pitch is flat/grassy, strength of opposition etc. And every team no matter how great it is will have to get accustomed to the nature of a pitch, the weather conditions which will dictate the outcome of a game.

Game strategies are based on how the pitch will react to seam bowling, spin bowling, variance/steadiness in bounce, quickness/slowness of the outfield etc amongst other factors. Just incase, you can't expect to go to England and expect sides to chase successfully 300+ runs like its done in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka almost every alternate match.

Similarly, one cannot expect to be bowled out in the sub continent for under 200 and with a good seam attack be confident of bowling out the opposition as we normally see it happen in Eng, Aus, NZ etc. Different pitches means your strategy is different. And I don't expect everyone to understand how it works.

I think the Indian's adopted the right strategy after loosing two early wickets. They held fort and kept wickets in hand for the end. Which was important seeing the situation of the game. 242 was really a competitive score so to speak under such conditions where the bowlers were getting assistance from the pitch. However, we got to give it up to SA for keeping wickets in hand for the 1st 10 overs building up quite a sizable score and then the middle order took it from there. If I were to point fingers then I would have pointed fingers at our seam bowling dept which didn't quite put best use of the conditions at hand.

Commentators didn't say what you expect them to because they understand the game a lot better than just going by logic since the advent of Aussie domination that every game needs to see high scores. IF India had won the match people would have praised Sachin's efforts along with Rahul's. But since we lost we tend to see it as the cause of loosing the match than appreciating the good knock played keeping in mind the situation of the game at that instant.

It is easy to be an arm chair critic and say he must have done this or that, but it takes something else to go out there and prove your point. Infact, I suggest its about time we have a cricket match amongst us TBHPIAN's who seem so much to know about how to play, manage a team, what decision's the team/individual ought to take and see if the outcome is the same as we predict. Its an unpredictable game, a funny one at that where the ball can find itself in the other players court with a blink of an eye. I request you guys to take it as a sport, wherein winning and loosing is a part and parcel. Even the best can loose, the worst can win. Its not the end of life.

Surprise · 27th June 2007, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by rks

Sad that the commentators or press had nothing to say about this.

Here it is

Cricinfo - Time takes its toll on Tendulkar

I dont know why Sachin all of sudden goes into the shell. His first run took 16 deliveries & in his 60's he took around 20 deliveries to score 3 runs. In net 4 runs came of this 36 delivery

If you minus this period, his score would have read 95 runs from 107 delivery, which is a healthy strike rate of 88+%.

Hats off to SA fielders for stopping sure 4's minimum of 3 times from Sachin's blade.

Glorious period of Sachin is gone for sure.

First time in his carreer he is out on 99, that too a run out

esteem_lover · 29th June 2007, 21:43

89 runs from 19 overs with 8 wickets in hand & sachin in the nineties, wouldn't you expect to win in a canter ??? no not indian cricket & not sachin. he is gone for 93, just cannot take india home, as usual sachin, but we still love you.

P.S. BTW, rks, i give a damn about commentators, especially the type that comes for this series like what, arun lal, l.siva, come on gimme a break.

mclaren1885 · 29th June 2007, 23:03

It was a good game, though would have preferred some more entertainment. Maybe a fall of a wicket just to see who hold their nerves better

.

Rks, like I said the other day. Keeping wickets in hand helps a lot even if that means a slow RR initially. A prime eg is today's game.

Good to see Sachin in good form, its a glory to watch some of his strokes even to date. And Yuvraj seems to have struck form at the right time.

esteem_lover · 29th June 2007, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Good to see Sachin in good form, its a glory to watch some of his strokes even to date. And Yuvraj seems to have struck form at the right time.

I wouldn't count my chickens just yet, MCL. Did you see how listless & lethargic the SA fast bowlers were. I have never seen any fast bowler apart from our very own guys being so uninterested in a game. Even Nel was not at his best, i wonder why.

mclaren1885 · 29th June 2007, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

I wouldn't count my chickens just yet, MCL. Did you see how listless & lethargic the SA fast bowlers were. I have never seen any fast bowler apart from our very own guys being so uninterested in a game. Even Nel was not at his best, i wonder why.

E_L, I hardly bother if the matches were fixed or not. If India wins or SA does. What I appreciate is a good game played by either sides/players. But I like the way Sachin played today.

esteem_lover · 29th June 2007, 23:47

I am not even hinting that the match was fixed, what i am saying is that the SAFs were not at their best at all, could be due to the flu too. Sachin played well, but certainly not at his best. But getting out when the team needed your experience was just pathetic & reminded me of his younger days as well. He was never one to take the on-field pressure. He can take the off-field pressure of being a young star & billionaire, but not on the cricket field.

mclaren1885 · 30th June 2007, 00:16

Sachin was never a good finisher and will never be, he sets up the platform and since its a team game you ought expect someone else to come and do the job as well. The sooner we accept that better it is for the fans. Well, look at it this way. It will only give opportunity to youngsters to cope up some pressure and get used to playing in crunch situations (like Natwest Final, series at Sharjah vs Aus etc where the juniors played a vital role as well). You see, I always look for some positive outcome however the situation be

. All this comes after playing for a number of years and knowing how it feels to be on the field. Believe me, its not as easy as it sounds/looks on TV.

Well regarding the South African bowlers, its but natural to be demoralized when some one is having a good knock and when luck is not favouring your way. Besides Sachin's past reputation too plays a vital role. It happens to the best of the lot.

esteem_lover · 30th June 2007, 00:24

I dont think he set up the game well, he set it up & let it go all in one move. In professional sport, it is not right, maybe at the club level that is fine as you can always get away saying that you got a 90 & your average is 44+. in this level, more is expected from you or else give that chance to a deserving youngster, it wont matter if he fails.

It is sad to see sachin & ganguly (OLD stalwarts) opening the innings & prodding & pushing for the first few overs. Imagine what a guy like uthappa or karthik could have done in that situation. We desperately need youngsters in the ODI squad. 34/35/36 is seriously not the age to play ODI cricket specially as a specialist.

CrAzY dRiVeR · 30th June 2007, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surprise

Glorious period of Sachin is gone for sure.

Guys,

Both the matches he played nicely and top- scored. Should give him a break na? Afterall, its not that he ain't tryin.

Sachin is also a human being right?

mclaren1885 · 30th June 2007, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

It is sad to see sachin & ganguly (OLD stalwarts) opening the innings & prodding & pushing for the first few overs. Imagine what a guy like uthappa or karthik could have done in that situation. We desperately need youngsters in the ODI squad. 34/35/36 is seriously not the age to play ODI cricket specially as a specialist.

I would disagree with you here. Look at our bench strength. Its no good, specially on seaming/bouncy/green pitches. Besides, youngsters have been given enough chance to prove themselves but have failed (take Robin for eg). Infact, even with the current lineup I am afraid at the lack of experience. Looked to me that once if Yuvi gets out the rest of the pack will soon follow. I see Mathew Hayden, Ricky Ponting, Shane Warne, Courtney Walsh, Ambrose, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis tried to play/played as long as they could.

Fine, imagine that we do indeed throw out Sachin, Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid, Sehwag out of the team. Can you name any replacements who would befit their absence? When was the last time we had a formidable bowling attack? In recent years, I guess the best we could gather up is Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, L.Balaji, Aashish Nehra, Anil Kumble & Harbhajan. I don't see most bowlers in the current lineup matchup to these kind of performances. I am sorry to say we do not have the necessary bench strength.

What we need is more proactive pitches back at home, official tours to the U-18 teams to Australia, NZ, England to get them accustomed to the nature of pitches. Until then nothing will change. We will remain a formidable team at HOME and an unpredictable side AWAY.

Besides you need to realize that in this game one will have a good day and then immediately followed by a bad/good day. You cannot expect good form to last for eternity, vice versa with bad form too. Its a funny game though. And we as fans expect a lot out of these mere mortals, and when they don't deliver shower our anger on them. There was one point of time wherein it looked that Ricky Ponting would never get into double figures due to a snag in his technique, he would fall over too soon. Australia persisted with him for god knows how many times. End result is for you to see today. Inspite of having a season or two of just mediocre performances today he stands as the most lethal batsmen. Experience counts, a LOT. Its easier said than done.

normally_crazy · 30th June 2007, 01:06

Anyone noticed Kartik ? He had a strike rate higher than Yuvarj but since Yuvi hit the 6 and the 4 - he got the credit. Yes, yuvi played well too and good to see him back in form but as McL said - if either yuvi or Kartik would have got out,I dont know what would have happened.

esteem_lover · 30th June 2007, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

but as McL said - if either yuvi or Kartik would have got out,I dont know what would have happened.

That is exactly my point. why leave the game in tenterhooks when you have been there for so long & dominating the bowling, why throw it away to a rookie bowler. This is where our stalwarts lack. The men who used to hang around & scratch around to achieve the target were robin singh & Jadeja. We need more of their breed now.

27th June 2007, 12:50	#226
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	E_L, I don't think this is the first time we have seen Sachin run out on 99 or 149. I have seen this happen earlier. Call him selfish, but almost every cricketer is when they get into the 90's. People like Adam and Matthew prefer hitting it out of the park to calm their nerves down in the 90's, Sachin prefers getting there with singles and twos. I see nothing wrong in that. Each has his own way. And remember at the end of the day people remember you for the records not those few brilliant knocks once in a while. Afridi is remembered because of his quickest 100, Sir Don Bradman for his exemplary average, Shane Warne and Murali for their sheer number of wickets and so on. Similarly Sachin for his centuries, for its very easy for people to forget a good/bad performance within a short period of time. Do you see Warne or Murali not looking at getting a wicket every ball? I remember when Anil got a perfect 10 against the Paki's Srinath intentionally bowled wide. Was anil selfish too? They are all professionals who come with one aim. To make a mark, to get into history books (given a chance you and me would like to too). Records, stats are a vital part of their game. I have seen Michael almost clobber Ralph into the walls to take the lead at French GP? How come most of us worship MS for his selfishness and shrude tactics? Coming to Sachin, from what I have noticed over the years he always looks to convert 1's to 2's just to get to the century mark sooner should he find the fielder to be standing deep or if he has played the ball with soft hands. I have seen him umpteen number of times converting such runs and reaching 100's in both forms of the game. Its an old habit so to speak. Sometimes it doesn't work. And he is still lightening quick between the wickets.
	() Thanks

27th June 2007, 14:50	#227
rks BANNED Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ?? Posts: 1,238 Thanked: 17 Times	Sachin scores 99 off 143 deliveries. Just over 4 an over for 24 overs. The rest of the team has to score at almost 6 an over for 26 overs to get the score to 250+. Once upon a time this was OK, but not today, and not against SA. We needed at least 275 to put up a fight against SA and that means Sachin expects the rest of the team to score at 7 an over for 25 overs, while he potters along at 4 per over. Sad that the commentators or press had nothing to say about this. Another 30 runs from Sachin and the game would have been won for India. Why can't the man open up even after getting to a personal score of 50? If he got out, players like Yuvraj and Dinesh Karthik would have had more time to push the score along. And to think that younger and fitter players like Mohd. Kaif have to languish while Sachin chases records at the team's expense. Gautham Gambhir's technique looks suspect and he might find the going tough against quality seam bowling on responsive pitches. On the positive side, Piyush Chawla was a good find. But South Africans are bad players of spin bowling. His real test will come against the likes of Australia/SL/Pakistan.
	() Thanks

27th June 2007, 16:02	#228
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	Rks, you need to dig a little deeper into the game to understand how it works. There are some factors known as weather conditions, dryness/moisture in the pitch, whether the pitch is flat/grassy, strength of opposition etc. And every team no matter how great it is will have to get accustomed to the nature of a pitch, the weather conditions which will dictate the outcome of a game. Game strategies are based on how the pitch will react to seam bowling, spin bowling, variance/steadiness in bounce, quickness/slowness of the outfield etc amongst other factors. Just incase, you can't expect to go to England and expect sides to chase successfully 300+ runs like its done in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka almost every alternate match. Similarly, one cannot expect to be bowled out in the sub continent for under 200 and with a good seam attack be confident of bowling out the opposition as we normally see it happen in Eng, Aus, NZ etc. Different pitches means your strategy is different. And I don't expect everyone to understand how it works. I think the Indian's adopted the right strategy after loosing two early wickets. They held fort and kept wickets in hand for the end. Which was important seeing the situation of the game. 242 was really a competitive score so to speak under such conditions where the bowlers were getting assistance from the pitch. However, we got to give it up to SA for keeping wickets in hand for the 1st 10 overs building up quite a sizable score and then the middle order took it from there. If I were to point fingers then I would have pointed fingers at our seam bowling dept which didn't quite put best use of the conditions at hand. Commentators didn't say what you expect them to because they understand the game a lot better than just going by logic since the advent of Aussie domination that every game needs to see high scores. IF India had won the match people would have praised Sachin's efforts along with Rahul's. But since we lost we tend to see it as the cause of loosing the match than appreciating the good knock played keeping in mind the situation of the game at that instant. It is easy to be an arm chair critic and say he must have done this or that, but it takes something else to go out there and prove your point. Infact, I suggest its about time we have a cricket match amongst us TBHPIAN's who seem so much to know about how to play, manage a team, what decision's the team/individual ought to take and see if the outcome is the same as we predict. Its an unpredictable game, a funny one at that where the ball can find itself in the other players court with a blink of an eye. I request you guys to take it as a sport, wherein winning and loosing is a part and parcel. Even the best can loose, the worst can win. Its not the end of life.
	() Thanks

29th June 2007, 21:43	#230
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	89 runs from 19 overs with 8 wickets in hand & sachin in the nineties, wouldn't you expect to win in a canter ??? no not indian cricket & not sachin. he is gone for 93, just cannot take india home, as usual sachin, but we still love you. P.S. BTW, rks, i give a damn about commentators, especially the type that comes for this series like what, arun lal, l.siva, come on gimme a break. Last edited by esteem_lover : 29th June 2007 at 21:46.
	() Thanks

29th June 2007, 23:03	#231
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	It was a good game, though would have preferred some more entertainment. Maybe a fall of a wicket just to see who hold their nerves better . Rks, like I said the other day. Keeping wickets in hand helps a lot even if that means a slow RR initially. A prime eg is today's game. Good to see Sachin in good form, its a glory to watch some of his strokes even to date. And Yuvraj seems to have struck form at the right time.
	() Thanks

29th June 2007, 23:47	#234
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	I am not even hinting that the match was fixed, what i am saying is that the SAFs were not at their best at all, could be due to the flu too. Sachin played well, but certainly not at his best. But getting out when the team needed your experience was just pathetic & reminded me of his younger days as well. He was never one to take the on-field pressure. He can take the off-field pressure of being a young star & billionaire, but not on the cricket field.
	() Thanks

30th June 2007, 00:16	#235
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	Sachin was never a good finisher and will never be, he sets up the platform and since its a team game you ought expect someone else to come and do the job as well. The sooner we accept that better it is for the fans. Well, look at it this way. It will only give opportunity to youngsters to cope up some pressure and get used to playing in crunch situations (like Natwest Final, series at Sharjah vs Aus etc where the juniors played a vital role as well). You see, I always look for some positive outcome however the situation be . All this comes after playing for a number of years and knowing how it feels to be on the field. Believe me, its not as easy as it sounds/looks on TV. Well regarding the South African bowlers, its but natural to be demoralized when some one is having a good knock and when luck is not favouring your way. Besides Sachin's past reputation too plays a vital role. It happens to the best of the lot.
	() Thanks

30th June 2007, 00:24	#236
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	I dont think he set up the game well, he set it up & let it go all in one move. In professional sport, it is not right, maybe at the club level that is fine as you can always get away saying that you got a 90 & your average is 44+. in this level, more is expected from you or else give that chance to a deserving youngster, it wont matter if he fails. It is sad to see sachin & ganguly (OLD stalwarts) opening the innings & prodding & pushing for the first few overs. Imagine what a guy like uthappa or karthik could have done in that situation. We desperately need youngsters in the ODI squad. 34/35/36 is seriously not the age to play ODI cricket specially as a specialist.
	() Thanks

30th June 2007, 01:06	#239
normally_crazy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,369 Thanked: 528 Times View My Garage	Anyone noticed Kartik ? He had a strike rate higher than Yuvarj but since Yuvi hit the 6 and the 4 - he got the credit. Yes, yuvi played well too and good to see him back in form but as McL said - if either yuvi or Kartik would have got out,I dont know what would have happened.
	() Thanks