[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by carboy

For my money, it would be amongst Sangakarra, Amla, Kallis, Cook, Bell, Trott.

And the man who just brought up 13,000 test runs yesterday, and has scored 1000 runs this calender year (including 5 centuries and several half-centuries) and has been around for 15 years; has been completely forgotten! Blasphemy!

Just look at those stats: Rahul Dravid | India Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Steve Waugh might have been the player of '90s. But Dravid, is undoubtedly, the player of 2001-2011.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

And the man who just brought up 13,000 test runs yesterday, and has scored 1000 runs this calender year (including 5 centuries and several half-centuries) and has been around for 15 years; has been completely forgotten! Blasphemy!

Just look at those stats: Rahul Dravid | India Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Steve Waugh might have been the player of '90s. But Dravid, is undoubtedly, the player of 2001-2011.

Not in my book.

As I said every 2nd post or article is about Rahul Dravid being forgotten. He must be the most remembered forgotten person in the history of the world.

[carwatcher]

I think one can also praise Sachin for child like passion for cricket which is still there. Just one small eg. IIRC Once he was first to reach England before the series started and practiced with Monty Panesar, then ECB advised Panesar not to do so. This speaks about dedication, commitment, etc. He is the most complete player of all times. He is a very very good and intelligent fielder, runner between wickets and bowler as well. Mohd Azharuddin played pathetically and was selected just on his reputation during his last 100 matches or so. He himself said when given MoM at Mohali during one of his last matches, "I myself don't remember when I got MoM last". Ganguly was the most lazy fielder, and due to this very reason Dhoni didn't want him in his team. Have you heard anything like Sachin ever. He is not good leader and this shortcoming is also overcome by him by playing consistently under all captains and he himself suggested Dhoni's name as captain.
Longetivity should not be taken for granted. How many of us feel motivated to go to gym daily? For Sachin you will never hear these kind of things like not attending coaching sessions, etc. I can share one more eg Amitabh Bachchan still reaches Gym at some 5-star hotel without fail early in the morning and also he reaches for shooting by 9 AM (or so) in the morning and this habit of his is admired by all the people. Same applies for Jeetendra AFAIK he was of limited talents but succeeded so long only because of his discipline etc and that thing found favors for him with all the south indian producers.
Nowadays players are not even ready to spend time on crease (this comment was made on cricinfo many times during Aus-SA series) let alone in coaching sessions.
People who want seniors to retire should see at current Australian team. No replacement found till date for Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh, Warne, Damien Martyn, Gilchrist, Langer and Hayden. If you recollect India failed to find openers since Gavaskar in test cricket till Gambhir and Sehwag arrived. It takes a second to destroy which takes generations to build. Indian team's strength lies in batting only and it is a well known fact for ages. Harbhajan Singh is the highest wicket taker as of today and leading bowler but is he reliable as of today and does he look threatening for opposing teams, the answer is big NO. So why take that batting strength out of the team without any strong reason and go back to days when it was often quoted "Indian tail starts when Tendulkar (opener) departs". Same will be said when Sehwag is dismissed. And No I am not very big fan of Sachin (only ok type fan) but I like cricketers which bring passion in the game like Adam Gilchrist, Lance Klusener, McCullum, Jonty Rhodes, Robin Singh, Michael Hussey, Michael Bevan, Chanderpaul, Afridi, Chris Harris, Chris Cairns, Angelo Mathews, Andy Blignaut, etc.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

Mohd Azharuddin played pathetically and was selected just on his reputation during his last 100 matches or so. He himself said when given MoM at Mohali during one of his last matches, "I myself don't remember when I got MoM last".

I am a bigger fan of sachin as you are only an 'OK type' fan. And I am one of the first in the list for him to achieve these statistical landmarks even though it does not matter as we all know what he is. But the remark about azhar was totally out of place and ordinary. I don't know how many matches you have watched him play to say that the last 100 matches he was useless. Like sachin, azhar too is a fitness freak and he is also a natural athlete, more than that, his style of batting is incomparable to any of the modern day cricketers, not even sachin. I am sure sachin learnt most of his wristy shots playing with Azhar. That is also why sachin is not only a genius, but a guy with a passion to learn. He has learnt many such things from much lesser players and fortified his game. Please do not put down azhar's cricket, he was one of the very best we had, in the top 5 at least if not in the top 3 for Indian cricket.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Please do not put down azhar's cricket, he was one of the very best we had, in the top 5 at least if not in the top 3 for Indian cricket.

Hmm. Who are your top 3 & Top 5? I am assuming you are talking only about batting & not overall.

I would find it very very difficult to put Azhar above Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Hazare, Mohinder Amarnath especially considering the 20 run difference between Azhar's home & away average (56 vs 36, I think). I would also put Vishy & Vengsarkar above Azhar.

This is purely on batting ability - I am not even considering the fact that Azhar was a cheat.

[carwatcher]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

I am a bigger fan of sachin as you are only an 'OK type' fan.
You are bigger fan of sachin "as" I am only an OK type fan

What is meant by this?

And I am one of the first in the list for him to achieve these statistical landmarks even though it does not matter as we all know what he is. But the remark about azhar was totally out of place and ordinary. I don't know how many matches you have watched him play to say that the last 100 matches he was useless.

I searched thrice but couldn't find the word 'useless' in my post. Yes he did play below his potential during the later part of his career and that is there for everyone to see. He never looked dangerous enough to win matches for India on his own during last few years. Believe me I was die hard fan of Azhar till that Hansie Cronje saga and felt very bad when he use to get out playing reckless shots during the later part of his career. He was always maintaining that "Disinterested" look during those days. The point I was trying to make is that Sachin is not in the team because of his reputation but he still is one of the best if not the best. Whereas Azhar would have been shown the door like Ganguly if he were playing now.

[karty_83]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

And the man who just brought up 13,000 test runs yesterday, and has scored 1000 runs this calender year (including 5 centuries and several half-centuries) and has been around for 15 years; has been completely forgotten! Blasphemy!

That sums up how people in India see Dravid. Very Unfortunate !!
This man has got 5 centuries so far this year and 4 of them came in matches that were hyped up for Sachin. Sadly all 4 of them were overshadowed by Sachin not getting one.

It makes sense to say that Sachin missed out on a 100 today because he got out in the 90's. But to say he missed out on a 100 when he gets out in 20's and 30's is too much.
Discussions on every news channel with experts as to what went wrong and why he got out. One channel had gone as far as to bring in a psychiatrist and an astrologer

If Sachin retires from Test matches today, On present form both Kallis and Dravid can get past his tally. What would make Kallis's achievement more commendable is that he would have over 300 wickets to add to those runs. Bowlers with over 300 wickets are considered good/great. What would you call Kallis then ? Where does that leave Sachin ?

IMHO Sachin, Dravid, Ponting, Lara and Kallis are all special once in a generation players. Its just not fare to pick up one batsman and put him on the top and give step motherly treatment to others.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by carboy

I would find it very very difficult to put Azhar above Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid, Hazare, Mohinder Amarnath especially considering the 20 run difference between Azhar's home & away average (56 vs 36, I think). I would also put Vishy & Vengsarkar above Azhar.

This is purely on batting ability - I am not even considering the fact that Azhar was a cheat.

You sound very uninformed, you represent the 'true' Indian cricket fan, he only wants stats and THAT is why you love Tendulkar. I love his game and his passion for cricket, I am not at all keen about his stats, yes, if he gets them, I am more happier. but I am not looking at the 20 run diff in averages with Azhar or anyone else, even sachin, I will not even talk about Azhar's cricket because it wont mean anything to someone who crunches numbers. Azhar was a legend, his name got tarnished, whether it was true or it was him only or not is another topic for discussion, speaking about his cricketing ability, he was one of the best the world has produced. A lot of people like you have muddled their minds into thinking he only played for money.

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I searched thrice but couldn't find the word 'useless' in my post. Yes he did play below his potential during the later part of his career and that is there for everyone to see. He never looked dangerous enough to win matches for India on his own during last few years. Believe me I was die hard fan of Azhar till that Hansie Cronje saga and felt very bad when he use to get out playing reckless shots during the later part of his career. He was always maintaining that "Disinterested" look during those days. The point I was trying to make is that Sachin is not in the team because of his reputation but he still is one of the best if not the best. Whereas Azhar would have been shown the door like Ganguly if he were playing now.

Keep searching.... Your words clearly said that he played the last 100 matches because of his reputation, I don't know what you were searching for. I am not backing Azhar's credibility because I have no idea about the credibility of the people who investigated nor about the people who handed down his sentence, I sincerely hope you do, do not tell me you just read in the newspapers. The newspapers tomorrow will tell you that sachin did not get his 100th hundred and blame it on his bad luck or the pitch or sammy's cruel plan or pakistani elements or even the fact that he could not do his regular pooja at Kolkatta. Which one are you going to believe ?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

You sound very uninformed, you represent the 'true' Indian cricket fan, he only wants stats and THAT is why you love Tendulkar. I love his game and his passion for cricket, I am not at all keen about his stats, yes, if he gets them, I am more happier.

Seriously!!!! I got into this thread rubbishing sachin's 100th 100 stat saying it's a useless stat. And the stat of how many runs he has made in the last 2 years. See my other posts on this page!!!

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

but I am not looking at the 20 run diff in averages with Azhar or anyone else, even sachin, I will not even talk about Azhar's cricket because it wont mean anything to someone who crunches numbers.

I am not a stat guy. Azhar had a few very good 100's - His 100 in Australia in the 1991-92 series. His 100 in 1996 in South Africa etc. But overall he didn't have the technique to handle pace bowling on a helpful pitch on a regular basis. Anyone who watched Azhar play knows this.

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Azhar was a legend, his name got tarnished, whether it was true or it was him only or not is another topic for discussion, speaking about his cricketing ability, he was one of the best the world has produced.

He is not even the best his state has produced. I would rank VVS above him. I would put Azhar as just about the Top 10 batsman from India - I would rate SMG, SRT, RD, DBV, GRV, Hazare, MAmarnath, Merchant, VVSL all above him.

I haven't watched Hazare & Merchant bat - so that's mostly by reading articles & hearing people talk about them - but I have watched loads of all the others.

[esteem_lover]

If you rate DBV above Azhar, then you got to rate SM too among these top lists, he was also one of the best until he went to Australia much the same as our own colonel, in fact our colonel got hit on his head playing in India, please do not say that it is because he was brave enough to play without a helmet.

[carwatcher]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Keep searching.... Your words clearly said that he played the last 100 matches because of his reputation, I don't know what you were searching for Yes I said that but I didn't use the word useless. I will say again that he didn't play to his potential during his last few matches. "Useless" would be a harsh statement considering he was a very good fielder till the end. Requesting again to read and comment on the post as a whole and not react on single line. If you can read that much than you can also read that I am also big Azhar fan. Infact this post was regarding Tendulkar and not Azhar. I am not backing Azhar's credibility because I have no idea about the credibility of the people who investigated nor about the people who handed down his sentence, I sincerely hope you do, do not tell me you just read in the newspapers. The newspapers tomorrow will tell you that sachin did not get his 100th hundred and blame it on his bad luck or the pitch or sammy's cruel plan or pakistani elements or even the fact that he could not do his regular pooja at Kolkatta. Which one are you going to believe ?

If we belong to the category mentioned by you (moved by media) then we would not be in a forum like T-BHP, isn't it. I wanted to post his career averages from Cricinfo but anyone can see them and anyway we were discussing about Sachin's longetivity. Period.

[Naturalist]

Dravid has always been overshadowed by Sachin whether be it an uncharacteristic 50 or 100. If Sachin makes 50, it easily overshadows the 100 made by Dravid.

This is happening for the last 15 years. Sad Sad. Dravids technique as Test player is unmatchable, forget about the Bradmans and Sachins.

[esteem_lover]

Ok, i know that you are carwatcher and I was speaking to carboy. I wonder who is hitting me with what. carboy was critical about azhar and praising DBV. I have been an ardent follower of DBV and have seen him playing along with Kapil dev in 1985 against NZ in the WCC. The headline on 'The Hindu' read the next day, "Kapil and Vengsarkar turn the tables on New Zealand ."

[karty_83]

Originally Posted by Naturalist

Dravid has always been overshadowed by Sachin whether be it an uncharacteristic 50 or 100. If Sachin makes 50, it easily overshadows the 100 made by Dravid.

Rightly said. Leave alone Dravid, he has overshadowed the whole team . For the Indian media, Cricket starts and ends with Sachin. They fail to realize that its a team sport.

Apart from Dravid i feel very sorry for Laxman. Some of the fifties that he has scored for India were far more valuable than 100's scored by others. But who cares ?

[lloydofcochin]

I still can't understand the hullabaloo about Sachin's records and Dravid not getting his due etc

For me as a Cricket fan for the last 22 years I feel blessed to watch these legends play. Comparing them is utter foolishness. Both have their own style and are integral to the team.

Sachin is the more dominating batsman of the two but if I want someone to bat for my life I would want Dravid to do that

Dravid is a classical batsman that the opposition would grudgingly respect but batsmen like Sachin & Sehwag would give them nightmares with their ability to dominate by taking the attack to the opposition.

Sachin started playing at the age of 16 and for 22 years from Imran, Marshall, Akram, Waqar, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, McGrath, Mcdermott, Warne, Qadir, Murali, Saqlain, Brett Lee, Akthar, Steyn Shaun Tait, Darren Gough he has played them all and is still on the top of his game and if that's not greatness I'm sorry I don't know what it is

I love him because he is sublime!

Tendulkar's Bullet Drive against LEE - YouTube

Sachin playing the greatest ODI knock in history - YouTube

Sachin's Rare video....4 sixes to abdul qadir. - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 169 Capetown v RSA 1997 - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar DESTROYS Glenn McGrath-BRUTAL BATTING FROM THE GOD OF CRICKET! - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIFJe...feature=fvwrel

Sachin Tendulkar 93 Hobart v PAK 2000 - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 141(135) - India v Pakistan Samsung Cup 2nd ODI at Rawalpindi 2004 - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 3rd Test Century Perth 1992 - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 146 vs South Africa HD - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 155* vs Australia 1998 - YouTube

*RARE* SACHIN TENDULKAR vs MALCOLM MARSHALL - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 177 vs Eng | 1996 Nottingham - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 38- HAMMERS Glenn McGrath into oblivion-MAGIC ASSAULT FROM THE GOD OF CRICKET - YouTube

Sachin's 143 Against Aus in Sharjah in 1998 - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 134 vs Australia 1998 Sharjah - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 148* vs Australia 1992 SCG - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 200* vs SA - Full Innings In One Part - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 241 vs Australia SCG 2003-04 - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 175 v Australia_ ODI 2009 HD720P - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar - 122 vs. England (1996) - YouTube

SACHIN TENDULKAR'S 92 VS WESTINDIES AT BARBADOS 3RD TEST 1997 - YouTube

Sachin Tendulkar 117 (not out) 1st Final - Australia v India, CB Series 2008 - YouTube

Ind vs SA 2007 - Belfast ODI - Sachin's 93 - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdBae8juAkg

Sir Donald Bradman speaks on Sachin Tendulkar - YouTube