[ravi_23]

Originally Posted by Daewood

There is a big difference between being slow to start because you need to get used to the pitch and the way the ball is moving,
and slowing down once you near a personal milestone. Have you ever seen Dhoni slowing down because he is on 47?
Any player, be it Sachin or Virat or Gambhir or Dhoni, if he's slowing down, after scoring at a higher rate
just for a personal milestone to pass, rather than for strategic reasons, he is not a team player.

Has Sachin ever said the pressure of not winning the World cup or the pathetic performance of
the team in England and Australia in the recent series get onto his nerves?
but the pressure of not getting his 100th ton got onto his nerves so badly as he said in yesterday's interview.
Isn't that enough to read his priorities.

Just my point

Originally Posted by C300

Actually, I have rarely seen him scoring more than 47 outside subcontinent

Its also because 90% of the time he will come near the end overs, so even a quick 40 is good for me.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Who doesn't accelerate after reaching a milestone, be it 50 or 100, especially if it comes towards the end of an innings (as 100s usually do)?

You just proved my point. Why does a player has to accelerate after reaching a milestone? Why can't he accelerate before that, if that team is in a good position? I am not saying that every player should play blindly and throw away his wicket. But if you have a strong platform with wickets in hand, what is stopping you from accelerating? Personal milestone right? In yesterday's match alone, why couldn't sachin n virat accelerate after 35 overs or with 9 wickets in hand?

And sachin's fans please note that I am not only blaming sachin but virat too.

[normally_crazy]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

To all people suggesting Sachin to retire, let us see the performance of SRT now onwards and judge him, as now he will return to his natural game as the monkey is off his back.

So you agree there was a monkey on his back which has affected his game in the last year ?

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by ravi_23

You just proved my point. Why does a player has to accelerate after reaching a milestone? Why can't he accelerate before that, if that team is in a good position? I am not saying that every player should play blindly and throw away his wicket. But if you have a strong platform with wickets in hand, what is stopping you from accelerating? Personal milestone right? In yesterday's match alone, why couldn't sachin n virat accelerate after 35 overs or with 9 wickets in hand?

I don't think it's black and white. I don't think either Virat or Sachin would've played the way we did if it was the 45th over and not the 35th. Or if we were chasing 320 and were 170-odd in 35 overs.

If Virat and Sachin got out in the 36th over trying to accelerate, the batsmen following would've had to rebuild and be careful for the next 4-6 overs and we will probably have ended up with the same score - and the criticism would be, "They threw away a good position and put the middle order under pressure. They are experienced batsmen and should show more responsibility".

Have you considered that Dhoni himself has said a few times that when Sachin plays, the strategy of the team of play around him - so he keeps going at one end and the others can take more risks?

They are all experienced players and I trust them to do what is best for the team in the given situation. Sachin and Virat together have about 111 centuries in international cricket and that's 111 more than armchair pundits are going to score.

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

So you agree there was a monkey on his back which has affected his game in the last year ?

Of course, it would've affected him. He would've been pressurised by everyone talking about the 100th 100 at the start of every match. He's human, afterall.

[ravi_23]

@normally_crazy, Couldn't agree more. Pressure of personal milestone after all. I just wonder, how long sachin would have waited and played to get to 100 tons. What if it would have taken him 3 years or say 5 years?

Bigger question is, what next milestone is he looking for now? 20k runs, 50 ODI centuries, 100 ODI half centuries and what not.

[Turbokick]

If somebody keeps personal milestones ahead of the team and which in turn affects the team's result, it can be called as selfish.
33 out of 49 centuries were in the winning cause.
Rest 17 times India didn't lose because of Sachin playing with selfish intention! Far from that.

At instances it actually shows the class of the player that when everybody around him fails to score run,he is good enough to score a century.

110 odd against SA
110 odd against Eng
Both in the 11 WC.

Or be it the 143 or 170 odd against Aus which India lost.

140 against Pak in 2004 at Pak.

100+ against SA in SA (in 2002)
And the list goes on.
Its the batting around him failed for which India lost those matches. Most of the time he scored with 100+ strikerate. So where is the defensive cricket ?

[normally_crazy]

Originally Posted by ravi_23

Bigger question is, what next milestone is he looking for now? 20k runs, 50 ODI centuries, 100 ODI half centuries and what not.

50 ODI tons
200 Test Matches
500 ODI's

[C300]

Originally Posted by Daewood

Out of the 45 fifties he's scored, 30 have been outside India!!!

and half of that against Pakistan/SL on flat tracks. LOL.

I remember the Sydney test during 07-08 tour of Australia where on day five he was out just few overs before the stumps and our tail followed him. We lost that match but all we remember is monkeygate and Mr Steve Bucknor.
Ever heard people saying its because of Dhoni we lost that match. Now imagine Sachin in similar situation and people will jump on him blaming him for the loss.

We apply different yardstick when it comes to Sachin which is unfair. He should be compared with his peers and not with his past performances.

Originally Posted by Turbokick

If somebody keeps personal milestones ahead of the team and which in turn affects the team's result, it can be called as selfish.
33 out of 49 centuries were in the winning cause.
Rest 17 times India didn't lose because of Sachin playing with selfish intention! Far from that.

At instances it actually shows the class of the player that when everybody around him fails to score run,he is good enough to score a century.

110 odd against SA
110 odd against Eng
Both in the 11 WC.

Or be it the 143 or 170 odd against Aus which India lost.

140 against Pak in 2004 at Pak.

100+ against SA in SA (in 2002)
And the list goes on.
Its the batting around him failed for which India lost those matches. Most of the time he scored with 100+ strikerate. So where is the defensive cricket ?

+1. Another example is the 03 world cup. We only remember his failure in the final and forget his contribution in the previous matches.

I agree that its the final match which matters but have you ever heard people saying Ganguly/Dravid failed us in that match. Dravid scored some 40 runs in that match and I sure many here will say because of him we reached a respectable total

Again a different yardstick for Sachin.

The point is I am ok even if we drop Sachin. We only have to make sure that the players selected ahead of him are actually better than him in all aspect and not just flat track bullies.
Our best 11 should play at all times.

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

50 ODI tons
200 Test Matches
500 ODI's

Good for us. If only other batters had that hunger and passion for the game (with due apologies to Mr Kohli)

[ravi_23]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I don't think either Virat or Sachin would've played the way we did if it was the 45th over and not the 35th. Or if we were chasing 320 and were 170-odd in 35 overs.

Do you really think that they should have batted slowly till 45th over?
Batting first in a flat deck is just like chasing 350 runs, as you can always expect the other team to come hard at you from ball one. Also remember that any total can be chased in a batting wicket. Remember SA defeating AUS in that 400+ scoring match, also in recent times IND defeating SL by scoring 320 in under 37 overs.

Point is, when you are batting first and a platform is set, you got to start taking chances from 35th over itself or maybe as low as 30th over. Not to forget 9 more wickets in hand. India cannot expect its hard hitters to score 70-80 runs everytime in the final 5 overs and take india above 300+. Best example is the last match. Also should never underestimate a weaker team, I believe it was in their mindset that a 300 would be impossible for BAN to chase down. So, IND took the approach to score about 300 runs and settled for 289.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ravi_23

Point is, when you are batting first and a platform is set, you got to start taking chances from 35th over itself or maybe as low as 30th over. Not to forget 9 more wickets in hand. India cannot expect its hard hitters to score 70-80 runs everytime in the final 5 overs and take india above 300+. Best example is the last match. Also should never underestimate a weaker team, I believe it was in their mindset that a 300 would be impossible for BAN to chase down. So, IND took the approach to score about 300 runs and settled for 289.

So you are saying we should have a mindset that BAN would NOT have chased 300 or 350? By the way, can you explicitly tell what is a safe score for our great world class bowling attack that they can safely defend against Bangladesh. I would carry your message to Sachin & Co so that they will make sure they will always score that much against them.

[ravi_23]

^^ my point is, the more you score the better are your chances. I didn't mention that there is a safe score. If conditions are favoring try to score as much as possible, I hope you read the post well.

[chevelle]

Harsha gets emotional as he discusses Sachin's 100th Century - YouTube

A must watch from one of the best in business - Harsha Bhogle.

Just pause and say 100th 100. Feels so good and extremely proud as an Indian achieved it.

[addyhemmige]

Sachin has been there, done that. The time is right for him to retire on a high. If it gets to a stage where he has to be dropped and then retire, it will undermine all the achievements he has done till now. He has been a legend and will always be. His retirement should not be a fiasco.

It is no use arguing that he has been the savior of the Indian team for this long and he has to keep on playing till whenever he wants (it is not fair on his teammates also). I am sure that the BCCI will keep him playing till whenever he wants to play, but would that be good for Indian cricket? Maybe or Maybe not.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Turbokick

If somebody keeps personal milestones...

...And the list goes on.

Its the batting around him failed for which India lost those matches. Most of the time he scored with 100+ strikerate. So where is the defensive cricket ?

If you get 140 runs in an ODI and you lose, it's certainly not your fault.

It probably isn't the batting-line-up's fault either, if they pitch in a little. What had failed was the bowling, which the Indian Team is never known for. We've never had quality bowlers. A few exceptions and a few one-series-wonders besides, our bowling is average, or below.

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

50 ODI tons
500 ODI's

50 ODI tons wouldn't look as good, if the next statistic is 500 ODIs.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ravi_23

^^ my point is, the more you score the better are your chances. I didn't mention that there is a safe score. If conditions are favoring try to score as much as possible, I hope you read the post well.

I have not played international cricket myself but I do understand that it is not something as trivial as you are making it out to be! No two balls are same, people hit perfet yorkers for sixes and also get out on lollypop deliveries. I am sure the idea always is to score as much as possible, whatever the surface. But maybe you didnt listen to what Sachin said, ball was NOT coming on to the bat and it was difficult to score. Virat also score around at the same rate as Sachin. So he wasnt bluffing.

Originally Posted by addyhemmige

Sachin has been there, done that. The time is right for him to retire on a high. If it gets to a stage where he has to be dropped and then retire, it will undermine all the achievements he has done till now. He has been a legend and will always be. His retirement should not be a fiasco.

Really! Ponting was also dropped from the team unceremoniously, do you think that has undermined his achievements? Sachin's legend will only grow with time, mark my words, howsoever he goes. There is nobody in cricket like him, there is no readymade superstar to replace him and T20 has ensured that there never will be. The likes of Kohli, Yuvraj,Raina etc are no patch on the real greats like Sachin, Dravid, Lara etc. Look how incredibly arrogant Kohli is! Do we see him emulating Sachin? I dont think so. And his scoring record is quite shallow in my opinion. Has he faced the likes of Warne, Mcgrath, Wasim, Waqar, Murali, Pollock, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh ??? Who are the real world class bowlers today who can hold candle to these greats ???

[ravi_23]

Originally Posted by joslicx

.But maybe you didnt listen to what Sachin said, ball was NOT coming on to the bat and it was difficult to score. Virat also score around at the same rate as Sachin. So he wasnt bluffing.

Neither me nor you were in the middle of the pitch, so I do not blindly believe that the ball wasn't coming nicely. Also did the ball suddenly stopped coming nicely when he was close to the ton? And for me virat and sachin both have similar scoring habits, so I dont get surprised if virat says the same. Every batsman finds some excuse for issues.


Regarding today's match, unlucky dhoni yet again lost the toss

Yusuf's inclusion is a good change, but what is dinda still doing in the side Also, I believe manoj should have been given a chance in place of rohit.