[Chetan_Rao]

This is what we get when we're ever willing to hide our heads in the sand (or rather IPL-facilitated bundles of cash) and refuse to acknowledge the abject lack of quality in our ranks, always looking for a one-off wonder to be proclaimed the next mainstay (I'm looking at you, Nohit and Sir Jadeja).

How long can we ride on the shoulders of Virat and Pujara to get us through test matches, while the useless millionaires who aren't worth the bag the cash came in, keep embarrassing us on every international outing?


But then, what do you expect from kids barely out of their teens being drowned out in cash, raised to cult status, with talent nowhere near proportionate to the hype? Less said the better about the men in charge.

[Eddy]

Yeah, I should have known that our bowlers are capable of any anything, & record is safe.

Now lets see if McCullum has the guts to declare overnight at 281 n.o.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

This is what we get when we're ever willing to hide our heads in the sand (or rather IPL-facilitated bundles of cash) and refuse to acknowledge the abject lack of quality in our ranks, always looking for a one-off wonder to be proclaimed the next mainstay (I'm looking at you, Nohit and Sir Jadeja).

How long can we ride on the shoulders of Virat and Pujara to get us through test matches, while the useless millionaires who aren't worth the bag the cash came in, keep embarrassing us on every international outing?


But then, what do you expect from kids barely out of their teens being drowned out in cash, raised to cult status, with talent nowhere near proportionate to the hype? Less said the better about the men in charge.

I am wondering how we are going to produce future test cricketers.

An average Ranji player's goal is now going to be to play five seasons of the IPL, considering the cash involved there for a mere two months of work. That way, he secures the futures of his next couple of generations. Who would want to work hard to become a test cricketer when there is such easy money available?

And if one chooses to become a test cricketer, nobody will buy him at the IPL auction since he won't be suited to the T20 format. Look at Wasim Jaffer for example.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Now lets see if McCullum has the guts to declare overnight at 281 n.o.

No New Zealander has scored a triple hundred in tests. McCullum must get that record for NZ cricket.

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

So we see the same saga repeated. NZ come back from the dead while our captain cool being a spectator to the proceedings with his unimaginative and defensive field placements.

While Dhoni is agressive in T20 & ODIs, he seems clueless in tests.

Originally Posted by Eddy

Gotta say that as much as his team selection is baffling, he makes some smart moves. The decision to send Ashwin ahead of Sir Jadeja worked like a charm.

This was the comment made when India tied the 3rd ODI against NZ. Though Dhoni's luck came good in 1 ODI, it didn't in 4 other ODIs.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Oxy

I am wondering how we are going to produce future test cricketers.

An average Ranji player's goal is now going to be to play five seasons of the IPL, considering the cash involved there for a mere two months of work. That way, he secures the futures of his next couple of generations. Who would want to work hard to become a test cricketer when there is such easy money available?

And if one chooses to become a test cricketer, nobody will buy him at the IPL auction since he won't be suited to the T20 format. Look at Wasim Jaffer for example.

Who needs character and pride when you can have cash instead?


There's no money in test cricket, neither for the players nor for the administrators. Who wants to invest in a 5-day game, when both players and administrators can make crores from 3 hour games, played 2-3 times a week for a couple of months, and get exposure to all the bling & jazz that test cricket can't supply?

Other teams have clauses in national contracts that demand players put national duties first, but our gang of crooks rules the ICC (officially so once the new administrative setup is formalized), so fat chance in hell anything is going to get in the way of money anytime soon.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Other teams have clauses in national contracts that demand players put national duties first, but our gang of crooks rules the ICC (officially so once the new administrative setup is formalized), so fat chance in hell anything is going to get in the way of money anytime soon.

So which Indian player skipped national duty for IPL or any other games which could have been prevented by a clause?

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by carboy

So which Indian player skipped national duty for IPL or any other games which could have been prevented by a clause?

The answer to your question is in the second part of my post you quoted. BCCI makes sure nothing comes in the way of IPL.

And clauses can only do so much. When you're part of your nation's chosen 11 for international representation, a certain pride in the uniform and insignia you wear is essential. Purely my opinion, but our players can't seem to wait to come back for the IPL and the bagfuls of cash they've just been sold/retained for.

[hothatchaway]

The issue is not with contract clauses, but with de-emphasizing test cricket. Dhoni has himself made his apathy known for the longer version of the game, so one wonders if the powers that be feel obliged to retain him as the test skipper (btw I have nothing against him and feel that he is one of the best exponents - both as player and captain in limited overs)

No one wants to lose or cut a sorry figure, the moot point is whether BCCI is still serious about doing well in Test cricket, especially abroad. With the road to riches and a secure career having been paved by the IPL, none of the current crop is going to lose sleep over losing in test matches...except for perhaps Pujara

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

The answer to your question is in the second part of my post you quoted. BCCI makes sure nothing comes in the way of IPL.

And clauses can only do so much. When you're part of your nation's chosen 11 for international representation, a certain pride in the uniform and insignia you wear is essential. Purely my opinion, but our players can't seem to wait to come back for the IPL and the bagfuls of cash they've just been sold/retained for.

This is a profession just like anything else. If you get a chance to earn huge amounts of money, are you going to let it go? I won't.

I almost don't watch IPL. But I don't think it's responsible for anything. I have been watching Indian cricket for 30+ years. We have been crap outside India in test matches for most of those 30 years. There have been patches where we have been decent but that usually required a lot of things coming together. India's worst phase outside India was in the 90s when there was no IPL. 70s & 80s were OK.As good as the 2000s.

Also, the current team is rather inexperienced - they will improve some.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by carboy

This is a profession just like anything else. If you get a chance to earn huge amounts of money, are you going to let it go? I won't.

I almost don't watch IPL. But I don't think it's responsible for anything. I have been watching Indian cricket for 30+ years. We have been crap outside India in test matches for most of those 30 years. There have been patches where we have been decent but that usually required a lot of things coming together. India's worst phase outside India was in the 90s when there was no IPL. 70s & 80s were OK.As good as the 2000s.

Also, the current team is rather inexperienced - they will improve some.

I don't watch IPL at all, but can't avoid the endless discussion going around in-season.

I don't have a problem with people earning money, but I'm a bit of a traditionalist with a soft spot for the longer format of the game, and find the lack of respect for test cricket difficult to digest.

I agree we've been crap overseas long before IPL came into the picture, but the players today have more facilities, resources and international exposure at their disposal than any past generation, and I find the lack of application and pride in performing for the national side extremely disappointing.

More than IPL's money (though it's a major factor), it's the havoc the T-20 format creates with young cricketers' technique and temperament that grates on my nerves. There are only a few exceptions (e.g. Kohli among the current lot) that can handle all formats, others just seem incapable of adapting to test cricket.

Naseruddin Shah said something profound in a recent interview that stuck in my mind: "Most people in Bollywood want to be stars, very few actually want to be good actors". I believe the same is true for our cricketers.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

I agree we've been crap overseas long before IPL came into the picture, but the players today have more facilities, resources and international exposure at their disposal than any past generation, and I find the lack of application and pride in performing for the national side extremely disappointing.

The teams they are facing also have more facilities, resources etc. So that cancels itself out.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

More than IPL's money (though it's a major factor), it's the havoc the T-20 format creates with young cricketers' technique and temperament that grates on my nerves. There are only a few exceptions (e.g. Kohli among the current lot) that can handle all formats, others just seem incapable of adapting to test cricket.

It was the same before IPL also. Check how Indian cricketers played outside India pre-IPL also. It was as bad. Take someone like Rahul Dravid. He averages 30 in South Africa. He has 1 100 in Australia in spite of playing 16 matches there. Check Azhar's record. Check Vengsarkar's record.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by carboy

The teams they are facing also have more facilities, resources etc. So that cancels itself out.

The teams facing them have become better with the additional facilities, while we continue to be crap as ever (if not worse). South Africa is currently #1, while Australia had a long period of dominance in the 2000s and their current crop is again improving rapidly (they just whipped South Africa in the first test, and swept a hapless England clean in the Ashes), while we got beat 4-0 in ODI's by the world# 8 team on pitches that weren't even the regular green-tops we struggle on, and will probably lose the tests 2-0 if NZ declare early tomorrow and manage to take 10 wickets.

It was the same before IPL also. Check how Indian cricketers played outside India pre-IPL also. It was as bad. Take someone like Rahul Dravid. He averages 30 in South Africa. He has 1 100 in Australia in spite of playing 16 matches there. Check Azhar's record. Check Vengsarkar's record.

Se 'we've always been crap' is a justifiable excuse to remain crap overseas forever in an endless loop? What about trying to (or even wanting to) get better? You mention Dravid, how many of the current lot can hold a candle to him w.r.t. technique and temperament?

We have enough resources and opportunities for players to excel, but they're all taking the easier (and profitable) way out. Nothing wrong in prioritizing money, but then nothing wrong in feeling shortchanged as a fan either, who just wants to watch some good old test cricket but only gets served a big load of disappointment unless it's a home series on dead tracks (even those aren't sure-shot wins in the bag anymore, thanks to foreign players' exposure to Indian conditions, thanks to you know which tournament).

[msdivy]

This article captures how Dhoni is harming India's winning chances - Defensive Dhoni hurts India again

Some of the tactics in past few years have been baffling,
- bowling part time bowlers when the opposition is in tense situation
- setting 7:2 field for a batsman who has just come in
- removing slip fielders earlier than necessary
- not going after the target during chase in 2nd innings (WI)
- used the old ball for 146 overs (SA)
- can't believe NZ were set 617 as target and they saved the test with 2 wrickets

[PPS]

Originally Posted by msdivy

- bowling part time bowlers when the opposition is in tense situation

This baffling move gives the opposition batsman time to get set, but Dhoni's excuse is that he uses his part timers to improve the over rate!

- removing slip fielders earlier than necessary

Sometime yesterday he had a very deep 1st slip halfway to the boundary line for Virat Kohli's bowling!

- used the old ball for 146 overs (SA)

That was the most absurd move in his captaincy career.

Bottomline is that to win Test matches, bowlers need to pick 20 wickets.

[srishiva]

How many think that Murali Vijay is a player worth retaining? Dhoni has said something about playing till the next one day world cup and people had thought he would resign from Test cricket, hopefully he will.
If we are going to lose, it would be good to have a very young team to do the same. But still, where are the bowlers?