The Cricket Thread

Fishtail · 19th January 2018, 12:32

For some it is 'form'/'class' and for others it is 'Horses for courses'. And it is difficult to accept that Parthiv Patel is the second best wicketkeeper in the country.

Sawyer · 19th January 2018, 12:50

How is Rohit Sharma an advertiser asset? I don't see his face - thank heavens - endorsing anything anywhere. In that vein, other than Captain Courageous, I don't see any other face either, except for an occasional Dhoni ad. Are there ads I have missed?

am1m · 19th January 2018, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer

How is Rohit Sharma an advertiser asset? I don't see his face - thank heavens - endorsing anything anywhere. In that vein, other than Captain Courageous, I don't see any other face either, except for an occasional Dhoni ad. Are there ads I have missed?

http://www.forbesindia.com/celebprof...sharma/1587/31
http://www.financialexpress.com/phot...l-ambassadors/
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle8547508.ece
https://brandequity.economictimes.in...ocrat/56536955
https://www.thesouledstore.com/artis...al-merchandise
http://www.business-standard.com/art...1300800_1.html
http://www.business-standard.com/art...2600258_1.html

As you rightly said, thankfully, I've missed most of his ads too!

But he retains a higher 'brand value' than say a Rahane or Rahul. There's a whole 'B' segment of product and service categories that don't see the RoI from paying what it takes to sign a Kohli, but successfully use the '2nd-tier' of celebrities to market to a non-metro audience. And as my first advertising boss used to remind us copywriters, the best ads aren't the ones that win Cannes Lions, they're the ones (however tacky they may seem to us city-bred folk) that connect with their target audience and sell the product.

kannan666 · 19th January 2018, 13:08

Rahane, if included for the third test, is going to be under tremendous pressure now to perform. And all this simply due to team selection and media coverage, no fault of his at all ! IMHO, if he was selected as vice captain of the team, he should have played from the first test, or not been selected for that post and been in the team as a player only.

mazda4life · 19th January 2018, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I did too. Seems he had a few of the best Scotland has to offer, before/while writing that article

Absolutely agree ..alternately , we should be having something best that Nashik has to offer to understand his 'Opinion'

. Coming to the the match, it was just shambolic display by our batters and for these types of tests, we need someone to play the sheet anchor role else pacers can easily run through sides.

selfdrive · 19th January 2018, 17:23

In tests

Rohit Sharma
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
25 43 6 1479 177 39.97 2682 55.14 3 9 144 29 24 0

Ajinkya Rahane
Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St
43 73 9 2826 188 44.15 5370 52.62 9 12 323 23 57 0

Difference in their strike rate is 2.5 runs per 100 balls (55.14 vs 52.62). Would that matter so much over the course of a match?
Is intent signified by the higher number of 6s hit?

In my opinion, you sometimes make the play that the opposition does not want you to. In this case, whom would SA really hate to bowl to; Rohit or Rahane?

msdivy · 20th January 2018, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Difference in their strike rate is 2.5 runs per 100 balls (55.14 vs 52.62). Would that matter so much over the course of a match?
Is intent signified by the higher number of 6s hit?

In my opinion, you sometimes make the play that the opposition does not want you to. In this case, whom would SA really hate to bowl to; Rohit or Rahane?

Couldn't get the message you are conveying. Anyway, I had posted similar stat between Rahane & Rohit after 1st test. Considering Rohit's last 3 tests consisted of 2 tests in 2017 and 1 in 2016 and his 'good' form in them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

Both Rahane & Rohit made their test debut 5 years back. Their test stats,

Kohli was kidding when he said Rohit was selected to test match based on his ODI form. To Rohit defense, after his stupendous performance in home ODI series or IPL, he gets selected to overseas test series and he flunks badly. I think the folks in this thread are too fatigued to talk about Rohit - just search this thread for NoHit

Link: Rohit Sharma chosen over Ajinkya Rahane on current form, says Virat Kohli

A very apt piece on Kohli & BCCI from the person who has seen from close quarters - Kohli's arrogance helps his game but not the team

Quote:

I have met Kohli only once, and am unlikely to ever meet him again. But from our single conversation, and from what I have seen of him otherwise, I would say that of all of India's great sportsmen past and present, he is the most charismatic. He is a man of a manifest intelligence (not merely cricketing) and of absolute self-assurance.

I was witness to the reach and range of Kohli's dominating self in my four months in the BCCI's Committee of Administrators. The board's officials worshipped him. They deferred to him absolutely, even in matters like the Future Tours Programme or the management of the National Cricket Academy, which were not within the Indian captain's ken.

In any field in India - whether it be politics or business or academia or sport - when strength of character is combined with solidity of achievement, it leads to an individual's dominance over the institution.

In Indian cricket today, the selectors, coaching staff and administrators are all pygmies before Kohli.

But this precisely is the time to remind ourselves of how we must not allow individual greatness to shade into institutional hubris. Kohli did all he could to keep India in the game, but the power of an individual in a team game can go only so far.

Chetan_Rao · 21st January 2018, 00:35

We never learn, do we?

Your greatest general doesn't always make a great king by default, the skill sets needed are vastly different and there are rare individuals who can do both well.

Dhoni is a recent example, Kohli isn't (yet), but I don't believe it's fair to blame him solely for the mess. He rose in prominence at a time of immense turmoil at BCCI, and they just threw him into the deep end without proper backup.

We need a robust administrative setup above the captain, but we've got zilch. I had high hopes when Kumble and Dravid became part of the setup, but that didn't take long to go downhill. A mindset change is in order, before anything else is done.

Sawyer · 21st January 2018, 06:27

It is a regrettable Indian trait that seeks domineering leaders and autocratic father figures, so we get what we are most comfortable with, even if it is a sub conscious thing. Unless that mindset changes, the vacuum it throws up will always be filled in this manner, in every sphere.

The same article also sums up Shastri very aptly: "But why was he replaced by someone so strikingly inferior, in character and cricketing achievement, to the team's captain? " This, on the Kumble farce. Kohli needs a strong counter balance, but who has the courage to bell that cat? Perhaps we will see that once we are thrashed in England and Australia.

The same article also alludes to the bending to strong winds nature of Vinod Rai.

What also disappoints is that the Kumbles, Dravids and the Tendulkars are silent on these issues. They ought to be financially secure enough to not worry about the financial consequences of speaking out, but old agendas prevail. Laxman and Ganguly needs BCCI jobs, so their kowtowing is excusable.

Sawyer · 21st January 2018, 11:12

The other thing that has changed, IMO for the worse, in Indian cricket is this playing with intent - whatever that means. Or the other new age term - express yourself. Whatever that means. They sound like sound bites and buzz words.

On the other hand, as a student of management I remember the cricket talk of the Indian team a decade ago converging with that of managing for quality - focus on the process, the scoreboard will take care of itself. The process of batting the next ball, of taking slip catches, of running between wickets, of winning the session and the like. I don't hear that much anymore.

What is the use of expressing your intent if in doing so catches are dropped, ridiculous run outs are seen and bowlers bowl balls on the leg stump with a packed offside field? Intent and self expression can be the next stage once focus on the process become second nature, it can't replace the need for the latter; except perhaps in the hit and giggle T20 where the game is often too short for the lack of attention to process/fundamentals to be exposed.

jbpanda · 21st January 2018, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

A very apt piece on Kohli & BCCI from the person who has seen from close quarters - Kohli's arrogance helps his game but not the team

Very honest and apt article. Thanks for sharing it. The following sentence from the article summarises it all: "...we must not allow individual greatness to shade into institutional hubris." Hope some right thinking people and at the helm of affairs realise this sooner than later in the larger interest of Cricket rather than succumbing to dominating individual's whims and fancies.

Chetan_Rao · 21st January 2018, 14:10

I always figured 'intent' meant the intent to win; next ball, next over, next session, next catch, next half chance or whatever, and 'express yourself' meant let your talent and application do the talking.

Isn't that what intent and expressing onself means in a sporting context? Have those definitions changed?

Rhetorical questions, of course. Intent appears to mean flamboyance and showmanship now, and expressing onself an excuse to mouth off unmentionable stuff.

I play a fair bit of weekend cricket with colleagues and friends at grounds where kids come to play too. This behaviour is trickling down to the grassroots, kids think it's acceptable now.

Sawyer · 21st January 2018, 17:02

There are lessons to be learnt from how England under a different captain have completely reinvented their one day game from the lows of World Cup 2015. Morgan was the captain then as well if I recall, but had just taken over from Cook that looked out of his depth in ODIs. Australia may well be looking to move to a captain other than Smith for ODIs.

A professionally managed results oriented BCCI would make similar moves, perhaps in the reverse direction, more promptly than our superstar pandering administration. And the monster Kohli ego will not now accept another captain in the way that Root does.

Even the hit/giggle T20 is where India struggles in global tournaments inspite of all the IPL exposure. There seem to be three different skill sets in play.

selfdrive · 22nd January 2018, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

Couldn't get the message you are conveying. Anyway, I had posted similar stat between Rahane & Rohit after 1st test. Considering Rohit's last 3 tests consisted of 2 tests in 2017 and 1 in 2016 and his 'good' form in them.

My bad, I think the intent topic was more with Pujara and not with Rahane. I was trying to show that the intent did not result in quicker runs overall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

A very apt piece on Kohli & BCCI from the person who has seen from close quarters - Kohli's arrogance helps his game but not the team

This is the part that resonated the most with me:

It may be that Kumble alone is in the Kohli league as a cricketer and character. That perhaps is why they clashed and perhaps why Kumble had to go.

But why was he replaced by someone so strikingly inferior, in character and cricketing achievement, to the team's captain? A person with no coaching experience besides?

libranof1987 · 22nd January 2018, 10:39

Today's sports page in HT has the following news:

- Dinesh Karthik might play the third test
- Rahane certain
- Rohit may play as well

Kohli alone knows what happens to the fast bowlers: who plays and who sits out.

I hope the BCCI realize what this continuous pick-and-drop policy is doing to the players. Not having the same team for two consecutive matches is not something to be proud of; it only demotivates the players. Someone needs to muster up the courage to talk to Kohli about team management and Shastri to act his role, or step out.

19th January 2018, 12:32	#9826
Fishtail Newbie Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Kolkata Posts: 7 Thanked: 26 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread For some it is 'form'/'class' and for others it is 'Horses for courses'. And it is difficult to accept that Parthiv Patel is the second best wicketkeeper in the country.
	() Thanks

19th January 2018, 12:50	#9827
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,665 Thanked: 1,767 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread How is Rohit Sharma an advertiser asset? I don't see his face - thank heavens - endorsing anything anywhere. In that vein, other than Captain Courageous, I don't see any other face either, except for an occasional Dhoni ad. Are there ads I have missed?
	() Thanks

19th January 2018, 13:08	#9829
kannan666 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: KA-02 Posts: 987 Thanked: 111 Times View My Garage	Re: The Cricket Thread Rahane, if included for the third test, is going to be under tremendous pressure now to perform. And all this simply due to team selection and media coverage, no fault of his at all ! IMHO, if he was selected as vice captain of the team, he should have played from the first test, or not been selected for that post and been in the team as a player only.
	() Thanks

19th January 2018, 17:23	#9831
selfdrive Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 2,952 Thanked: 3,325 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread In tests Rohit Sharma Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 25 43 6 1479 177 39.97 2682 55.14 3 9 144 29 24 0 Ajinkya Rahane Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 43 73 9 2826 188 44.15 5370 52.62 9 12 323 23 57 0 Difference in their strike rate is 2.5 runs per 100 balls (55.14 vs 52.62). Would that matter so much over the course of a match? Is intent signified by the higher number of 6s hit? In my opinion, you sometimes make the play that the opposition does not want you to. In this case, whom would SA really hate to bowl to; Rohit or Rahane?
	() Thanks

21st January 2018, 00:35	#9833
Chetan_Rao Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore Posts: 4,119 Thanked: 14,508 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread We never learn, do we? Your greatest general doesn't always make a great king by default, the skill sets needed are vastly different and there are rare individuals who can do both well. Dhoni is a recent example, Kohli isn't (yet), but I don't believe it's fair to blame him solely for the mess. He rose in prominence at a time of immense turmoil at BCCI, and they just threw him into the deep end without proper backup. We need a robust administrative setup above the captain, but we've got zilch. I had high hopes when Kumble and Dravid became part of the setup, but that didn't take long to go downhill. A mindset change is in order, before anything else is done. Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 21st January 2018 at 00:36.
	() Thanks

21st January 2018, 06:27	#9834
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,665 Thanked: 1,767 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread It is a regrettable Indian trait that seeks domineering leaders and autocratic father figures, so we get what we are most comfortable with, even if it is a sub conscious thing. Unless that mindset changes, the vacuum it throws up will always be filled in this manner, in every sphere. The same article also sums up Shastri very aptly: "But why was he replaced by someone so strikingly inferior, in character and cricketing achievement, to the team's captain? " This, on the Kumble farce. Kohli needs a strong counter balance, but who has the courage to bell that cat? Perhaps we will see that once we are thrashed in England and Australia. The same article also alludes to the bending to strong winds nature of Vinod Rai. What also disappoints is that the Kumbles, Dravids and the Tendulkars are silent on these issues. They ought to be financially secure enough to not worry about the financial consequences of speaking out, but old agendas prevail. Laxman and Ganguly needs BCCI jobs, so their kowtowing is excusable. Last edited by Sawyer : 21st January 2018 at 06:39.
	() Thanks

21st January 2018, 11:12	#9835
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,665 Thanked: 1,767 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread The other thing that has changed, IMO for the worse, in Indian cricket is this playing with intent - whatever that means. Or the other new age term - express yourself. Whatever that means. They sound like sound bites and buzz words. On the other hand, as a student of management I remember the cricket talk of the Indian team a decade ago converging with that of managing for quality - focus on the process, the scoreboard will take care of itself. The process of batting the next ball, of taking slip catches, of running between wickets, of winning the session and the like. I don't hear that much anymore. What is the use of expressing your intent if in doing so catches are dropped, ridiculous run outs are seen and bowlers bowl balls on the leg stump with a packed offside field? Intent and self expression can be the next stage once focus on the process become second nature, it can't replace the need for the latter; except perhaps in the hit and giggle T20 where the game is often too short for the lack of attention to process/fundamentals to be exposed. Last edited by Sawyer : 21st January 2018 at 11:14.
	() Thanks

21st January 2018, 14:10	#9837
Chetan_Rao Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore Posts: 4,119 Thanked: 14,508 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread I always figured 'intent' meant the intent to win; next ball, next over, next session, next catch, next half chance or whatever, and 'express yourself' meant let your talent and application do the talking. Isn't that what intent and expressing onself means in a sporting context? Have those definitions changed? Rhetorical questions, of course. Intent appears to mean flamboyance and showmanship now, and expressing onself an excuse to mouth off unmentionable stuff. I play a fair bit of weekend cricket with colleagues and friends at grounds where kids come to play too. This behaviour is trickling down to the grassroots, kids think it's acceptable now. Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 21st January 2018 at 14:16.
	() Thanks

21st January 2018, 17:02	#9838
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,665 Thanked: 1,767 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread There are lessons to be learnt from how England under a different captain have completely reinvented their one day game from the lows of World Cup 2015. Morgan was the captain then as well if I recall, but had just taken over from Cook that looked out of his depth in ODIs. Australia may well be looking to move to a captain other than Smith for ODIs. A professionally managed results oriented BCCI would make similar moves, perhaps in the reverse direction, more promptly than our superstar pandering administration. And the monster Kohli ego will not now accept another captain in the way that Root does. Even the hit/giggle T20 is where India struggles in global tournaments inspite of all the IPL exposure. There seem to be three different skill sets in play.
	() Thanks

22nd January 2018, 10:39	#9840
libranof1987 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: All over! Posts: 5,571 Thanked: 9,948 Times	Re: The Cricket Thread Today's sports page in HT has the following news: - Dinesh Karthik might play the third test - Rahane certain - Rohit may play as well Kohli alone knows what happens to the fast bowlers: who plays and who sits out. I hope the BCCI realize what this continuous pick-and-drop policy is doing to the players. Not having the same team for two consecutive matches is not something to be proud of; it only demotivates the players. Someone needs to muster up the courage to talk to Kohli about team management and Shastri to act his role, or step out.
	() Thanks

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