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Old 13th February 2018, 16:33   #10021
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I'd give Manish Pandey and Rahul more chances in ODIs that the hyped Hardik Pandya. Atleast for some more days. Even if they fail to show some form, then Shreyas Iyer and Rishabh Pant should get a go.
Below is the ODI records of there guys
The Cricket Thread-capture.jpg
Hardik has played more than Rahul and Manish combined. Pandya Averages 31.4 but (Rahul+Manish) average 37.7
Hardik has 31 sixes (Rahul+Manish) has 8
So it's clear that Hardik just comes, swings his bat, gets some sixes and gets out. But he has got 36 matches while Manish and Rahul have got less chances to prove themselves.


Anyway, talking about numbers. ABD, Kohli, Dhoni are close to 10K career ODI runs. Dhoni has a good chance of getting it this series
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Old 13th February 2018, 19:29   #10022
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Shreyas Iyer and Kedar Jadhav are garbage. Dhoni is way past his prime too.

Expect atleast two of these to cost us the next world cup.

Basically our batting is nothing if you look past the top three.

We need to try out Shubman Gill as early as we possibly can, and find an attacking keeper batsman. Our current middle order is atrocious.

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Old 13th February 2018, 20:29   #10023
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I am surprised to see Dhoni hanging on - he has nothing left to prove and enough money in the bank. And at least one season more of bringing in big bucks via IPL.

I would have expected someone as self aware as he is to realise that he is not the batsman he was and step down on his own in time for a replacement to be in place for the next World Cup - in the interest of Team India. Selector sacking will happen but at least six months past his sell by date, time that will eat into that available for replacement grooming.
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Old 13th February 2018, 20:33   #10024
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Even I am surprised. The only reason I can see for MSD to carry on is that the team management values his on field inputs & experience and is not "allowing" him to hang up the boots. But the time has come I think.

If only there was someone who was knocking on the doors as a no 6 batsman + keeper - there is none. I do not think too highly of Pant and Kishan - both look like leg side swingers to me and will be sorted pretty soon.
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Old 13th February 2018, 21:03   #10025
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I think it's a good time to try some of the promising U 19 players like Prithvi, Shubman, Manjot and Nagarkoti. If they show signs of being able to cope up, they will at least be able to strengthen the bench during the next world cup and give more options. On the other hand, if they are unable to cope, they can still continue playing in domestic and India A circuits. It's not a risky option in the long-term.
Alongside, Rishabh Pant and Ishan Kishen can also be given enough chances to prove or disprove themselves.

Last edited by NPV : 13th February 2018 at 21:06.
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Old 13th February 2018, 21:27   #10026
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The only reason I can see for MSD to carry on is that the team management values his on field inputs & experience and is not "allowing" him to hang up the boots.
With 2019 not far away, this is a valid reason to keep him - but then the team selection has to be done without counting on him to contribute with the bat. Drop him further down the order to signal that to the rest of the batsmen many of whom seem to be passengers these days. His keeping skills - surprisingly - are still good enough, thankfully. If a Pant has to come in, he should be brought in as a batsman alone and be good enough to be in the team on that basis.
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Old 14th February 2018, 00:18   #10027
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His keeping skills and his on field understanding of the game. Some advices from him to the bowlers are absolute gems.

But yes it is time we start thinking beyond him!

Today's match surprisingly Pandya came of well as a bowler. My problem with him is that it will be very rare that he contributes to have an impact like this. Rest of the time he is more or less like a passenger. Can we afford that and play someone who is so in consistent?
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Old 14th February 2018, 12:28   #10028
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The only reason I can see for MSD to carry on is that the team management values his on field inputs & experience and is not "allowing" him to hang up the boots.
You make a valid point.

But the biggest issue for me is that he is not batting in the correct position! He's not a big hitter now which he once was, so he should be playing the middle overs from 15-40 where he can concentrate on singles & twos. And for that to happen he needs to bat at no.4. Off late he comes into bat in the last 10 overs & is expected to slog straightaway which he struggles to do now!

Team Management is playing a game of revolving chairs in the middle order between Rahane/Manish Pandey/Jadhav/Shreyas Iyer/Karthik to give them more exposure but that in turn has affected Dhoni more than anything else.

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If only there was someone who was knocking on the doors as a no 6 batsman + keeper - there is none. I do not think too highly of Pant and Kishan - both look like leg side swingers to me and will be sorted pretty soon.
Dinesh Karthik i believe would be the keeper once Dhoni retires.
Dhoni's inputs to Kohli & more so to the 2 wrist spinners have greatly benefited them, who have just about managed to cement their places in the team.
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Old 14th February 2018, 13:09   #10029
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Surprised to hear some of the opinions on MSD (again). All of these conclusions simply because he is 36 (my guess)? Honestly I find it ridiculous. MSD is doing a thankless job right now.
Everyone gets a run top of the order, MSD doesn't. With the state of balls in ODIs, 95% of the time when he is out to bat, its typically when he has to go after the ball from the word go. He is not that player anymore. In fact there are very few players in the world like that who can do this post 40 overs, when the ball has gone soft.
All this in the hope of a unicorn who can do this job is based on players who open the innings or bat 3/4. I hope people can put some logic behind their thoughts.
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Old 14th February 2018, 13:20   #10030
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Surprised to hear some of the opinions on MSD (again). All of these conclusions simply because he is 36 (my guess)? Honestly I find it ridiculous. MSD is doing a thankless job right now.
Everyone gets a run top of the order, MSD doesn't. With the state of balls in ODIs, 95% of the time when he is out to bat, its typically when he has to go after the ball from the word go. He is not that player anymore. In fact there are very few players in the world like that who can do this post 40 overs, when the ball has gone soft.
All this in the hope of a unicorn who can do this job is based on players who open the innings or bat 3/4. I hope people can put some logic behind their thoughts.
I don't think anyone mentioned his age in the discussion. The fact that he is still SO good behind the stumps means that the age factor is irrelevant.

Top of the order - do you seriously think that he can bat better than any of our current top 3 - I don't think so. In fact, our top 3 is easily the best in the world.

Quote:
He is not that player anymore.
This is the major problem. He does not contribute with the bat anymore. And it's not as if he is out of form. Apart from a couple of innings, his form even in the IPL has been terrible.

As I said, his experience, mentorship & wicketkeeping skills are the only thing keeping him in the team (and maybe rightly so...)

Quote:
Dinesh Karthik i believe would be the keeper once Dhoni retires.
He has not kept wickets for so long. I think the selectors will go for someone younger like a Pant once MSD goes.

What is also hurting us is that none of our batters can give us 3-4-5 overs in a game. This is where we excelled when we had Sehwag, Raina & Yuvraj in the eleven.

I hope Raina does well in the T20s. He could well be the answer to our number 5 problems.

Last edited by Eddy : 14th February 2018 at 13:21.
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Old 14th February 2018, 13:30   #10031
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I think if management has decided to keep MSD till 2019 WC, then he has to bat at #4. He is a slow accumulator of runs and once he gets-in he can be effective in the slog overs (though no where close to what he used to be 3-4 years back). But looking at the current players who are batting at #4 and #5, MSD is safe bet. Then, we have this Rahane enigma. He always splits the opinion of fans whether he is inside the team or not. I prefer Rahane to concentrate on Tests only and get in younger players like Manish at #4 or #5. And, i don't think Kedar is long term prospect considering his recent performance. Lastly, about Hardik, though he bowled exceptionally well and he is a terrific fielder, i don't think he deserves his place in ODI team yet. He still needs to improve his batting before he can be drafted into the ODI side as an all rounder.
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Old 14th February 2018, 14:57   #10032
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I think this looks like a good batting order and playing eleven for the 2019 world cup:

Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Dhoni
Rahul
Raina
Pandya
Jadeja
Bhuvneshwar
Kuldeep
Bumrah

This allows Dhoni to play the accumulator role since he is not a big hitter anymore, and gives us attacking finishers in the form of Raina and Pandya. Bowling also looks pretty good.

Raina and Rahul need to be told strictly to work on their fitness and ensure they are injury free.

Last edited by Oxy : 14th February 2018 at 14:58.
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Old 15th February 2018, 14:05   #10033
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Lastly, about Hardik, though he bowled exceptionally well and he is a terrific fielder, i don't think he deserves his place in ODI team yet. He still needs to improve his batting before he can be drafted into the ODI side as an all rounder.
Hardik Pandya is not going anywhere. He enjoys a vote of confidence from the Captain himself & the team management is willing to give him the long rope. Captain seems to like his confidence & the attitude which he projects on the field, although he's had a horrible tour so far.
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Old 15th February 2018, 14:28   #10034
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Hardik Pandya is not going anywhere. He enjoys a vote of confidence from the Captain himself & the team management is willing to give him the long rope. Captain seems to like his confidence & the attitude which he projects on the field, although he's had a horrible tour so far.

Agreed. This has to do with the dearth of proper all rounders in Indian cricket scene. I feel that pandya can become a very vital asset if he is consistent with ball and bat.
I won't say that he had an horrible tour in SA. In the first test he played a brilliant innings of 93 where all the batsman looked clueless and have India more than a ray of hope. In the latest ODI he played a very important role by picking up 2 wickets (excluding a nice catch and a brilliant run out) and being economical as well. He is an outstanding fielder by default. Yes he has a long way to go and he is in his early days but he does deserve a place in Indian team at least at the moment.
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Old 15th February 2018, 14:37   #10035
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I don't think anyone mentioned his age in the discussion. The fact that he is still SO good behind the stumps means that the age factor is irrelevant.

Top of the order - do you seriously think that he can bat better than any of our current top 3 - I don't think so. In fact, our top 3 is easily the best in the world.
Nobody has, but we wouldn't be even having this conversation if we were talking about a 'young' and upcoming player with similar performances. I mean, Sharma doesn't get runs in Tests, then 4 ODIs, still no murmur about him, same with Dhawan in ODIs, KL Rahul in Tests and for some reasons, it seems Rahane is the best bat after Sachin, he is revered by the commentators (atleast). We are seeing the same with Iyer right now as well. Just hypocrisy, being young cannot be a qualification, like being on the wrong side of 30 a negative. I am also fairly sure the team management understands this.

Our top 3 is among the best in the world - agreed, that also means that the middle order rarely gets a decent hit.

I do however have a problem with the risk free attitude taken but all 3 (maybe except Dhawan sometimes) which comes back to bite us i.e. when they get out invariably at times when you need to accelerate. I don't see anyone questioning that. It sometimes almost seems the top 3 is waiting to get a 100 first and then look to go hard in the end overs. To me that is just not a great way to play and places unnecessary burden on 4/5/6.

I also agree that with the musical chairs going around 4/5/6/7, no one is ever going to settle and MSD is probably our best bet specially if he comes around 25 over mark. Apart from that, in all the players we have tried, I like Pandey and DK the most suited, as they can bat aggressively if need be.

On Pandya - Okay, he had a good game with the ball in the last ODI, but his batting seems to be one dimensional i.e. you pitch it up and the ball's out of the park, else he seems to have no answers. I am not at all convinced that we can bank on him for 10 overs; with his bowling. He needs to be atleast consistent with one aspect. India needs to sort this one out soon.

Also, with the team keen on playing both Chahal and Kuldeep, we have a rather long tail and it makes Pandya's role so important. If he cannot deliver then India's top order keeps taking the safety first attitude all the time. That makes the role of the missing No. 4 rather important - hence my choice of MSD. He reads the situation well and knows what's required, can't say the same about most.
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