[Sawyer]

A professionally played and very convincingly won ODI series; if only....

Far too similar to the last Australia tour where we discovered our collective mojo in the second half of the tour as I recall. Disappointed that the lesson from that experience was not learnt.

I am not a fan of the ODI format these days, but I would love to see an England India match up with England credited for reinventing the aggressive batting part of their one day game and India having rediscovered the importance of taking wickets. Hopefully, the entire tour to start in six months will be a cracker.

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

It is a regrettable Indian trait that seeks domineering leaders and autocratic father figures, so we get what we are most comfortable with, even if it is a sub conscious thing. Unless that mindset changes, the vacuum it throws up will always be filled in this manner, in every sphere.

What also disappoints is that the Kumbles, Dravids and the Tendulkars are silent on these issues. They ought to be financially secure enough to not worry about the financial consequences of speaking out, but old agendas prevail. Laxman and Ganguly needs BCCI jobs, so their kowtowing is excusable.

WoW! Just came across this article. Really wonder how Ramachandra Guha has the 'intelligence' to know who is superior and who is inferior. Is that any sportsman from Karnataka is superior to a sportsperson who is from any other states? Also, timing of the article is not at all surprise. Looks like Guha was just waiting for Kohli to lose few matches before writing this article. Really must appreciate the patience of Guha. Must have been patiently waiting for the past 8 to 12 months. May he had written the article and was waiting for 'opportunistic' time to publish the article. This is a typical vulture attitude.

Guha must have found being part of CoA too much of hard work and writing 800 word article must be far more easier and simpler.

I suspect Guha & co will again come out of their burrow-holes with few such articles when India lose matches here and there.

[Sawyer]

I don't see that anything has changed since the time Guha wrote that article, for it to be considered inappropriate to the needs of the team. The need for an effective partner and counter balance, and not just a yes man/manager will always be there. And as far as I recall, Guha was unstinting in the article in his praise for Kohli for his individual and even captaincy capabilities.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Hopefully, the entire tour to start in six months will be a cracker.

I just hope most of the players would be fresh enough for England tour starting with the T20's & ODI's since they'll be playing 2 months of hectic IPL! And the BCCI should also see to it that they remain injury free & our given periodic breaks in between.
Since they'll be playing limited overs matches before the Tests, getting used to the conditions also shouldn't be an issue for majority of the players. Pujara & Ishant will be playing county cricket which is a huge plus.

[suhaas307]

Kohli has been most impressive this season and in this series in particular. There's absolutely no doubt that he will surpass SRT's ODI record. It's only a matter of time.

However, it appears that the team relies heavily on him, and on the day Kohli does not perform, the odds of losing the game are quite high.

Sure, the bowlers came through with disciplined spells and the fielding was pretty decent too. But it's scary to think what would happen if Kohli hits a rough patch and goes out of form.

[Chetan_Rao]

Unsure of tests, but Kohli could have a genuine shot at getting a lot more ODI hundreds than Sachin if he stays fit and focused. How about a 100 ODI 100s?

[nilanjanray]

There seems to be some serious bias against the aggressiveness shown by Kohli and his team. If this were Steve Waugh, people would have forgiven everything. Do I sense the Karnataka/'gentlemen' (David, Kumble) lobby being forced to drink some unpleasant medicine? 😀

[NPV]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

But it's scary to think what would happen if Kohli hits a rough patch and goes out of form.

True, but in this series and for some now the word form seems to have no meaning in the context of Kohli's game
The way he is going, he should easily get more centuries than Tendulkar in ODIs for sure.

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

gentlemen...lobby being forced to drink some unpleasant medicine?

Pardon me for trying to defend the underdogs, but these gentlemen are indeed gentlemen and not saboteurs, conspirers, sadists or lobbyists. When they could, they have done yeoman service to Indian cricket on the field and are doing the same off it nowadays. One could hardly think of cricketers more selfless than these two gentlemen.

They belong to a school of thought in cricket that differs from the one practiced by the current captain of the Indian cricket team. Does that make them villains? Is it you are either with us or against kind of thing? I don't think so.

Kohli plays his brand of cricket and the gentlemen profess theirs. I am sure deep inside, both sides respect the other as they rightfully should.

I am happy when Kohli's aggression wins us matches and angry when it doesn't. I am an insignificant Indian fan who behaves irrationally at times. I am the man on the street who carries my heroes on my head when they triumph and burns their effigies when they don't. I am an average Joe who respects the past but encourages the present.

It hurts me (the aforementioned I) to see people ascribing ulterior motives to these gentlemen.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

Pardon me for trying to defend the underdogs, but these gentlemen are indeed gentlemen and not saboteurs, conspirers, sadists or lobbyists. When they could, they have done yeoman service to Indian cricket on the field and are doing the same off it nowadays. One could hardly think of cricketers more selfless than these two gentlemen.

They belong to a school of thought in cricket that differs from the one practiced by the current captain of the Indian cricket team. Does that make them villains? Is it you are either with us or against kind of thing? I don't think so.

Kohli plays his brand of cricket and the gentlemen profess theirs. I am sure deep inside, both sides respect the other as they rightfully should.

I am happy when Kohli's aggression wins us matches and angry when it doesn't. I am an insignificant Indian fan who behaves irrationally at times. I am the man on the street who carries my heroes on my head when they triumph and burns their effigies when they don't. I am an average Joe who respects the past but encourages the present.

It hurts me (the aforementioned I) to see people ascribing ulterior motives to these gentlemen.

I respect Kumble and Dravid a lot. My comment was aimed at some folks who show a bias towards certain cricketers (or types of cricketers) while dishing others at the first opportunitty. Or favour cricketers from certain parts of the country. E.g. such bias was pretty apparent during the Chappell/ Ganguly/Dravid fiasco.

Having lived through the 'India weak, Anglosphere strong | Indian cricketers poor, Imran Khan Oxbridge +charismatic +rich | 'Well played, gracious loser' eras, and having lived in various parts of the country, I:
1. Love when India is more aggressive than before
2. Have a nation first approach, instead of any regional bias.

I can identify with Gavaskar's attitude and peeves. Big time :-)

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

There seems to be some serious bias against the aggressiveness shown by Kohli and his team. If this were Steve Waugh, people would have forgiven everything. Do I sense the Karnataka/'gentlemen' (David, Kumble) lobby being forced to drink some unpleasant medicine? ��

Agree with you 100%.

If Indians play the brand of cricket that they are playing now and are on the face as they do now they will be called
- 'arrogant',
- 'immature',
- 'school kids' AND
- what not.

If an 'Aus', 'Eng', 'SA' team play like that they will be called
- playing 'positive brand of cricket',
- exhibiting 'killer instinct'
- playing mentally tough and strong brand of cricket
- exhibiting 'winning' attitude and mentality AND
- what not

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I respect Kumble and Dravid a lot...Have a nation first approach, instead of any regional bias.

Cricket has always been as much an arena for raw talent as it has been for politics. Bias based on region, religion and what not have always clouded our perception of cricketers. But once they start winning matches, we embrace them; until such time when a bad defeat hits us in the face, forcing us to look for a sacrificial lamb.

A majority of Indian fans don't follow the Ranji Trophy matches and are generally unaware of the domicile details of cricketers other than the ones from their own state. This generally results in the classic US vs OTHERS mentality. Which again may not be true in the last decade due to the emergence of IPL teams. A player, irrespective of his nativity, is adored by the supporters of the team he plays for - a good change, I must say.

The 'nation first' approach is something that should permeate our consciousness. Looking at Kohli, Bumrah or Parthiv as belonging to a particular state or region is the grossest injustice one can do to them and to oneself. Sadly, seven decades after independence, we aren't any better/closer/stronger/unified as Indians than we were earlier. Regionalism is the name of the game, be it cricket, culture or politics.

Till the day when the words Republic of India really mean something other than just the physical boundaries of our nation, these debates will continue .

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Nobody has, but we wouldn't be even having this conversation if we were talking about a 'young' and upcoming player with similar performances. I mean, Sharma doesn't get runs in Tests, then 4 ODIs, still no murmur about him, same with Dhawan in ODIs, KL Rahul in Tests and for some reasons, it seems Rahane is the best bat after Sachin, he is revered by the commentators (atleast). We are seeing the same with Iyer right now as well. Just hypocrisy, being young cannot be a qualification, like being on the wrong side of 30 a negative. I am also fairly sure the team management understands this.

Are you kidding ? Look at the last few pages of the thread to see how much Nohit, Bhoomi Poojan Dhawan etc have been criticized for non-performance.

Our top 3 is among the best in the world - agreed, that also means that the middle order rarely gets a decent hit.

All the more reason that we may not be able to carry someone who's not been able to contribute with the bat for the past 2 years or so. That someone could be Dhoni or Iyer or Pandya.

I do however have a problem with the risk free attitude taken but all 3 (maybe except Dhawan sometimes) which comes back to bite us i.e. when they get out invariably at times when you need to accelerate.

As long as they are winning us more matches than losing, why is this a problem ?

I don't see anyone questioning that. It sometimes almost seems the top 3 is waiting to get a 100 first and then look to go hard in the end overs. To me that is just not a great way to play and places unnecessary burden on 4/5/6.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. On one hand you admit that our top 3 is the best in the world, and yet you are questioning their batting ? Going hard at the top, then consolidating in the middle and then going hard at the end again is a well thought out, and more importantly, well executed strategy that has made this team #1 in the world. The top 3 are expected to implement the strategy for till at least the 40th over. 4/5/6/7 are expected to then do the power hitting and that is where MSD has been failing far too often for comfort.

I also agree that with the musical chairs going around 4/5/6/7, no one is ever going to settle and MSD is probably our best bet specially if he comes around 25 over mark. Apart from that, in all the players we have tried, I like Pandey and DK the most suited, as they can bat aggressively if need be.

Pandey over DK in my opinion. But the problem with both of them is that they do not give us the fallback bowling option. That's where a Raina or Jadhav score over them.

On Pandya - Okay, he had a good game with the ball in the last ODI, but his batting seems to be one dimensional i.e. you pitch it up and the ball's out of the park, else he seems to have no answers. I am not at all convinced that we can bank on him for 10 overs; with his bowling. He needs to be atleast consistent with one aspect. India needs to sort this one out soon.

He is improving with the ball. He will have to work on his batting.

Also, with the team keen on playing both Chahal and Kuldeep, we have a rather long tail and it makes Pandya's role so important. If he cannot deliver then India's top order keeps taking the safety first attitude all the time. That makes the role of the missing No. 4 rather important - hence my choice of MSD. He reads the situation well and knows what's required, can't say the same about most.

He reads and knows - no doubt about that. It's the execution that has become a challenge.

[PPS]

Never have i seen the SA fielding/catching so poor in the last 2 decades as I've seen on this tour!

Bhuvi after his performance today once again reminding Kohli & team management what a huge mistake it was to drop him for the 2nd Test.

The SA performances in limited overs have been listless overall & its reminding me of those insipid Ind-SL series! India should aim for a whitewash in this T20 series, everyone has already forgotten the test series loss.

[Eddy]

Not everyone... I still can't get over it. We'll never get as good a chance as we had this time. THAT Pandya run out