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Old 18th February 2018, 23:58   #10051
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A couple weeks of acclimation and a few practice games, and this tour could've been a clean sweep.

It's pretty solid as is, but the performances third test onwards just reaffirm that the first two, already close until the third innings, could've swung the other way with a little more practice and adjustment to conditions.
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Old 19th February 2018, 05:41   #10052
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Not everyone... I still can't get over it. We'll never get as good a chance as we had this time. THAT Pandya run out
I agree about the frustration. But I think that chances comes from what one makes of the moment. We had a great chance in England when we won the first test the last time around. We had chances on the last Australian tour as well.

And we will have them again in England and Australia; and one expects that at least by now the lessons will have been learnt. If Kohli is the boss of Indian cricket everyone says he is, he should also be boss enough to drive through the necessary scheduling changes done to get the team firing from day 1. It isn't enough to parrot the " We are poor starters" excuse.
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:10   #10053
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Bhuvi after his performance today once again reminding Kohli & team management what a huge mistake it was to drop him for the 2nd Test.
I don't think the powers-that-be really care.

Bringing in Suresh Raina and dropping Rahane?

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If Kohli is the boss of Indian cricket everyone says he is, he should also be boss enough to drive through the necessary scheduling changes done to get the team firing from day 1. It isn't enough to parrot the " We are poor starters" excuse.
I have a feeling the scheduling happened keeping in mind his wedding. I wouldn't be surprised if the format of the SA tour (and perhaps the highly surprising SL series) happened because Mr. Kohli couldn't fly until his wedding/Receptions.
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:18   #10054
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It only makes it worse that the capability to win the test series too was there for all to see. The selection blunders made it way worse. If Bhuvi would have been selected for the second test, who knows what would have happened.

Now that we win all over the world in coloured clothing, why not start the tours with limited over matches and then move to the test leg? That would help acclimatise and also get some confidence for the batsmen. Or perhaps India should make a proposal to start playing test cricket in coloured clothes.
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:21   #10055
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I would give the wedding thing the benefit of doubt. But not rule it out - anything is possible with the BCCI.

In any case, even switching around the ODIs and the Tests in the same schedule would have been better for the Test results. If they mattered.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:14   #10056
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In any case, even switching around the ODIs and the Tests in the same schedule would have been better for the Test results. If they mattered.
The switching around could have worked if BCCI would have avoided hosting SL at home in 2017. The ODI leg in SA could have been scheduled around that time, Tests in SA around the new year period (along with the boxing day test). But then our board is so ticked off with Haroon Lorgat (in terms of historical tiffs) that they refused to go there for the boxing day test. Poor SA had to bring in Zimbabwe to bash them within 2 days of a 4 day test. So much for building broken relations. BCCI is forever the elder brother who will keep waiting for the other brother to bow down as in those 1980s Hindi potboilers.

If needed we could have hosted SL in 2018, when the Kohlis would have been free to get married. Unless someone tole them they needed to get that done in 2017 itself (in terms of horoscope etc).
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Old 19th February 2018, 11:15   #10057
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Are you kidding ? Look at the last few pages of the thread to see how much Nohit, Bhoomi Poojan Dhawan etc have been criticized for non-performance.
Sharma and Dhawan are proven failures in Tests (specially in slightly tougher conditions, don't think there is a need to even discuss it)
BTW Rohit scored a hundred, got a few people run out and then scored next to nothing in the remaining matches at a time which is the best for batting! Am I supposed to have sympathy for him?


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All the more reason that we may not be able to carry someone who's not been able to contribute with the bat for the past 2 years or so.
I think you need to check some stats and especially match situations, I can quite clearly remember him getting an odd hundred when he came in early, scored some crucial runs against Aus and SL both.

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As long as they are winning us more matches than losing, why is this a problem ?
The problem is that they invariably fail in big matches (T20 WC, WC 15, Champions Trophy) Now, it really doesn't count if India made it to the semis does it?

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Not sure what you are trying to say here. On one hand you admit that our top 3 is the best in the world, and yet you are questioning their batting ? Going hard at the top, then consolidating in the middle and then going hard at the end again is a well thought out, and more importantly, well executed strategy that has made this team #1 in the world. The top 3 are expected to implement the strategy for till at least the 40th over. 4/5/6/7 are expected to then do the power hitting and that is where MSD has been failing far too often for comfort.
No team can win big tournaments like this. Someone in the top order needs to accelerate and keep doing it throughout. You simply cannot expect someone coming around 40 overs and slogging from the word go. It will happen but it would be few and far in between.

There are two things over here - can they only bat like the safety first approach (top 3) and hence the strategy or they have a lot of confidence that the middle to lower order can do what they supposedly can't do themselves?

I suggest we need to see the team at-least try the option of someone keep going after the bowling from the start. See how that works, it would also mean the middle order gets a good hit and we shall know where we stand. All these bi-laterals won on the safety first strategy count for zilch if we can't win the big games. I mean a team like Pakistan got to us in the CT Finals!

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Pandey over DK in my opinion. But the problem with both of them is that they do not give us the fallback bowling option. That's where a Raina or Jadhav score over them.
I like DK, he is flexible and has multiple gears. Raina - not so sure, will need to see some more sensible batting from him.

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He is improving with the ball. He will have to work on his batting.
He has had 2 good games with the ball; on pitches which assisted his style of bowling. We won't get the same in England. People have sorted his batting. Even in the last T20, we saw, you pitch it up and he goes after it, everything else he struggles. Yes, he can improve but can you bank on him? I wouldn't bank on his bowling atleast. He may come off with the bat, typically against a weaker opposition or a spinner.

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He reads and knows - no doubt about that. It's the execution that has become a challenge.
Please suggest someone who can do it better than him then. With the musical chairs going around, I don't think the management has any confidence with players tried so far.
And check his record batting at No.4; MSD came down the order because no one else was good enough to bat under pressure at that number, it was the same situation 7 years back, it is the same situation now.

Just as an example - put into bat on a tough pitch, all the Indian stalwarts looked as if they were holding a toothpick rather than a bat against the (mighty) Sri Lankans last series (at Dharamshala); while MSD with his awkward technique and mental toughness proved, if one applied themselves, they could survive and score. Think it was a fair execution of what he is capable of.
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Old 20th February 2018, 16:40   #10058
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In response to this useless statistic, a couple of readers posted these hilarious comments

Quote:
Let me tell you some of the records I hold...
1. When I was born, it was a Sunday and time was 3:54 AM. It is a record. I was the only one who was born at that time in that state and in that hospital
2. I started walking at the age of 11 months. It was a record at that time in my family
3. When I started going to school, I was only 3 years old. It was a record at that time
4. When I passed 10th, I was the only one passed out with 80% marks in the street I was living. There were 25 families in that street.
5. When I got my first job, I haven''t completed 20 years. It was record in that village where I was staying..
and so on.. so on.....
How many more records do you need?
Really, these statisticians dont have any work other than manufacturing records
Quote:
I hold 4 world records.
1) I was the only one born with my name on that day in the entire world.
2) I am the only one who has parents that have unique names in the entire world.
3) I hold the world record for being born at the specific time in that specific place and on the unique place on earth
4) There is no one in the world who has my name, weight and color that has taken over 10 million breaths in his life time.
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Old 20th February 2018, 20:41   #10059
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Sharma and Dhawan are proven failures in Tests (specially in slightly tougher conditions, don't think there is a need to even discuss it)
BTW Rohit scored a hundred, got a few people run out and then scored next to nothing in the remaining matches at a time which is the best for batting! Am I supposed to have sympathy for him?



I think you need to check some stats and especially match situations, I can quite clearly remember him getting an odd hundred when he came in early, scored some crucial runs against Aus and SL both.



The problem is that they invariably fail in big matches (T20 WC, WC 15, Champions Trophy) Now, it really doesn't count if India made it to the semis does it?



No team can win big tournaments like this. Someone in the top order needs to accelerate and keep doing it throughout. You simply cannot expect someone coming around 40 overs and slogging from the word go. It will happen but it would be few and far in between.

There are two things over here - can they only bat like the safety first approach (top 3) and hence the strategy or they have a lot of confidence that the middle to lower order can do what they supposedly can't do themselves?

I suggest we need to see the team at-least try the option of someone keep going after the bowling from the start. See how that works, it would also mean the middle order gets a good hit and we shall know where we stand. All these bi-laterals won on the safety first strategy count for zilch if we can't win the big games. I mean a team like Pakistan got to us in the CT Finals!


I like DK, he is flexible and has multiple gears. Raina - not so sure, will need to see some more sensible batting from him.



He has had 2 good games with the ball; on pitches which assisted his style of bowling. We won't get the same in England. People have sorted his batting. Even in the last T20, we saw, you pitch it up and he goes after it, everything else he struggles. Yes, he can improve but can you bank on him? I wouldn't bank on his bowling atleast. He may come off with the bat, typically against a weaker opposition or a spinner.



Please suggest someone who can do it better than him then. With the musical chairs going around, I don't think the management has any confidence with players tried so far.
And check his record batting at No.4; MSD came down the order because no one else was good enough to bat under pressure at that number, it was the same situation 7 years back, it is the same situation now.

Just as an example - put into bat on a tough pitch, all the Indian stalwarts looked as if they were holding a toothpick rather than a bat against the (mighty) Sri Lankans last series (at Dharamshala); while MSD with his awkward technique and mental toughness proved, if one applied themselves, they could survive and score. Think it was a fair execution of what he is capable of.
What are you talking about? Whom would you get instead of Dhawan and Rohit? Are any of them (substitutes) proven? Are you even qualified to pass judgement on someone like Dhawan or Rohit? Do you know what it is like to score double centuries in Odis, or to hook a 150 kmph ball? Armchair critiques can get way with anything, right? Lol. So easy to diss folks, sitting in front of the tv, or laptop screen.

What is this fetish re dishing players? One has to play with the team one has got, one can't indulge in pie in the sky, wishful thinking. Well, one can, as a Team BHP member, but not one who has to play, or has to select a team.
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Old 20th February 2018, 21:06   #10060
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What are you talking about? Whom would you get instead of Dhawan and Rohit? Are any of them (substitutes) proven? Are you even qualified to pass judgement on someone like Dhawan or Rohit? Do you know what it is like to score double centuries in Odis, or to hook a 150 kmph ball? Armchair critiques can get way with anything, right? Lol. So easy to diss folks, sitting in front of the tv, or laptop screen.

What is this fetish re dishing players? One has to play with the team one has got, one can't indulge in pie in the sky, wishful thinking. Well, one can, as a Team BHP member, but not one who has to play, or has to select a team.
First of all, I don't do LOL, second are you alluding to any point? Forget my University Cricket, does anyone here have the credentials you are talking about? Don't think anyone has played a ball at 150kmph; not that Dhawan and Rohit play them any better

Did you actually go through my points of reply? There were in a very specific context. Either I must be horribly bad with my language or you simply couldn't comprehend what I said?

I said very clearly, we have among the best top 3, did you read it? Whatever I said about them playing safe, it's the same thing which was repeated by Harsha Bhogle, only a day later. I guess I might be on to something?

Plus, I wouldn't be as gross in my comments about some individual who is expressing his opinion. Peace.
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Old 20th February 2018, 21:11   #10061
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What is this fetish re dishing players? One has to play with the team one has got, one can't indulge in pie in the sky, wishful thinking. Well, one can, as a Team BHP member, but not one who has to play, or has to select a team.
Isn't that the prerogative of everyone posting here, and fans at large? I don't think that any of the players that play for India or the gents that select the team are here as posters anyway, so there really is no fundamental difference between one poster here and any other - all are just spectators. And it is these spectator fans that allow the players to earn the fancy salaries and endorsements that they get these days, so I don't see anything wrong in this criticism. One can argue against it, but not against the right to make it.
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Old 20th February 2018, 21:33   #10062
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Well. I just think that armchair criticism is going too overboard. Too much of slicing and dicing, and wishful thinking. If this were a war, folks would be whining about 'what is not right' till the enemy captured the capital. Instead of fighting with what one had (existing resources).

I have to admire the current Indian team. I see too few comments re the gutsy turnaround. I see many more whining or wishful comments.
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Old 20th February 2018, 22:04   #10063
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May I recommend Defeat into Victory by Field Marshal Slim? One of the greatest leaders in WW2, and one even the current Indian army admires (lessons/cases are still taught in staff college).

Initial defeats can happen. What matters is learning from them, and bouncing back. Instead of whining.

I would think that the current Indian team has done that in SA. All talks about prep, Kohli's marriage etc. are irrelevant, right now. Mgmt ( and Captain) would have learnt from the mistakes. Let's not take the art of whining to the English acme
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Old 20th February 2018, 22:12   #10064
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I prefer to say that Management should - as opposed to would - have learnt from these mistakes, because history says otherwise for the "would" word to be used. Only time will tell, by around this time next year once the Australian tour is over. And I would use the results of the Tests to be the test of this learning.
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Old 21st February 2018, 06:25   #10065
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I saw a little bit of the T20 game and it seemed to me that just as in India, there was a lot more crowd support than for the ODIs, which in turn was more than for the Test matches.

So even with an entertaining Test series and a victory for the home team, people were not interested enough to fill the ground.

I don't know the corresponding numbers for the TV audiences in India.

This does not augur well for the future of the Test cricket; one had hopes that if India plays more entertaining Test cricket that what they do in India on boring pitches, and win a lot more overseas where it is counted, the Indian audiences necessary for Test cricket to continue will be resurrected. But the SA experience suggests that this may not be the case.
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