[padmrajravi]

Virat's captaincy will not be under threat till a credible alternative arrives. I dont think there is any in the pipeline now. But the fact is Kane Williamson was better than Kohli in every aspect. He was a better captain and a better batsman than Kohli this week. We have been comprehensively beaten. I am sure Australia also would have beaten us if Kohli played the full series.

I think it's time selectors start grooming a new captain. Pace bowling was our weakness a decade back. Now we have a great bowling bench strength that is comparable to any team out there. And still we haven't won any ICC tournaments in the last 8 years.

Our batsmen fails everytime there is a little bit of swing or seam. The only time we have won in those conditions was when Pujara was in form. He does not seem to be in his prime now. Even in Australia series, he was a shadow of the earlier Pujara. As of now, everyone in the team is struggling in swinging or seaming conditions.

[avingodb]

Indian team missed Vihari at No. 6.
We had 3 half batsmen in Pant, Ashwin and Jadeja at 6-8 positions and having 5 bowlers in swing friendly conditions was a silly move. What we needed was a proper batsman at 6. Pant's match awareness is poor as was seen yesterday, he was too keen to gift his wicket which he did ultimately.

And I do hope Pujara, Rahane and Gill go to some b level league even in the UK before the next series and sort their games. They have been figured out now very well and they don't seem to have a way to get out of it.

Also, I think Bumrah played this game on the basis of reputation rather than form. With honest assessment, Siraj would have played ahead of him as well.

[Ananthang]

Originally Posted by avingodb

Indian team missed Vihari at No. 6.
We had 3 half batsmen in Pant, Ashwin and Jadeja at 6-8 positions and having 5 bowlers in swing friendly conditions was a silly move. What we needed was a proper batsman at 6. Pant's match awareness is poor as was seen yesterday, he was too keen to gift his wicket which he did ultimately.

And I do hope Pujara, Rahane and Gill go to some b level league even in the UK before the next series and sort their games. They have been figured out now very well and they don't seem to have a way to get out of it.

Also, I think Bumrah played this game on the basis of reputation rather than form. With honest assessment, Siraj would have played ahead of him as well.

Rightly said, Vihari or Washy. Not sure if he was even picked up. Anyways the England series will be precursor to our next generation. They have to start trying Mayank again and Gill can be tried at number 6.

Surprising at the way Jaddu is batting with tail Enders, when I avid watcher knows to protect the tail and world number 1 all rounder getting exposed. And in 2nd innings he was trying to Run out himself or the other batsman.

We also should accept, we were bit unlucky or NZ deserved a title since 1992 WC. We lost toss, super wet outfield and not getting the boundaries which could have added another 20 runs in first innings bowlers not getting the edge even though they bowled very well and when ever we were in form, play was stopped and never had the momentum. We lost the match on the Day 5.


Pant will be Pant and will gift his wicket any time, still he is the top scorer in 2nd innings plus he is keeping wickets. We need a left armer too and in the pace department, they have to groom Natarajan.

Should try and find another Pandya if he is not going to bowl going forward to save his back. It should a spinning all rounder for subcontinent wickets and pace all rounder for Overseas. May be test Arjun Tendulkar in one days or groom another fast bowing all rounder

[NPV]

Middle order batting failures - It's not an easy problem for India to fix. Pujara and Rahane definitely need to be more consistent along with Kohli. Adding a 6th batsman like Vihari may be one option but it can also weaken the bowling a bit. Jadeja as the 6th batsman hasn't really worked out (again a consistency issue). An experimental change could be to replace one of Pujara or Rahane with KL Rahul, again that change will also need some time to settle down and comes with its own risk.

The England series may again see experimentation with the opening pair ? Mayank may come in for Gill possibly but that's not the big problem at this juncture.

In all this, I think our bowling has been excellent and very consistent in the last few years and various new combinations in the absence of any one (or even two) of the top bowlers have still gone on to do the job which is commendable.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by Eddy

The ONLY reason he can feel secure as captain is because there is no obvious alternative. Again, I am not saying strip him off right away but the day is not far off if we lose to England and the T20 WC.

Rahane showed us in Australia that he's a worthy alternative at present, but he's been short of runs for a long time now! This doesn't inspire confidence to appoint him as Captain.

Originally Posted by NPV

Adding a 6th batsman like Vihari may be one option but it can also weaken the bowling a bit.

Right now main issue is our batting which needs to be fixed. 4 bowlers will definitely have to do bulk of the bowling & they need to be rotated in the 5 Tests. Don't think it will necessary weaken our bowling. As seen yesterday, Jadeja was brought into the attack far too late. Don't think Vihari will get a chance in the home series, so play him here & make him bowl 7-8 overs every innings.

An experimental change could be to replace one of Pujara or Rahane with KL Rahul, again that change will also need some time to settle down and comes with its own risk.

Indian Team will struggle to score 300+ most times in the upcoming series. Ideally KL should have been part of the SL tour, but looks like he'll get his chance in the 4th or 5th Test.

The England series may again see experimentation with the opening pair ? Mayank may come in for Gill possibly but that's not the big problem at this juncture.

Gill at best will get 2-3 Tests to prove himself, thereafter Mayank will come in if he doesn't do too well.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Remaining undefeated at home, while commendable, is not considered to be an earth-shattering feat. He has not won anything in SENA, nor any ICC event.

And I do not count Australia as Kohli's victory. I am reasonably sure that the result would have been different had he played the complete series.

The ONLY reason he can feel secure as captain is because there is no obvious alternative. Again, I am not saying strip him off right away but the day is not far off if we lose to England and the T20 WC.

You are forgetting 2018 Australia series win which was completely under Kohli and showed the way we can win in Australia which has never happened before.

Why do we Indian fans not feel proud of Home wins?
Look at Australia, England, South Africa, NZ. They boldly boost of their home records. NZ solely was in WTC final cos of home win records. And here we just brush aside our fabulous home win record as if it's nothing.

Not winning any ICC trophy is a big question mark on his record but that is majorly white ball cricket in which I guess most of us believe Rohit can be a better Captain but then selectors don't see that.

You are right. There is actually no replacement as Test Captain right now. Rahane is himself struggling as batsman since long so his days are also numbered.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Guess Kohli's extended purple patch is over. Not to say that he won't score big, but I'd expect more youngsters (Iyer, Rahul, Gill, Pant, etc) to take more responsibility in scoring 100s. Overall, NZ was a superior side. Knowing the conditions, the combination of 4 fast bowlers (Siraj instead of Jadeja) could have made a difference.

----****----

I like the WTC, but I think it needs to generously reward away victories between closely ranked sides.

Example: With the current rankings, an Australian victory in India or a New Zealand victory in England should be generously rewarded. That way, we will see some good contests, especially while traveling and it'll incentivize the stronger cricket boards not to schedule many matches against weaker teams away from home.

I hope this tournament doesn't become an exclusive group of 3-4 top teams.

This was our best possible 11. Jadeja isn't just a bowler. He is no.1 allrounder in ICC rankings right now and his average with bat is the best in middle order since couple of years. Plus his fielding makes him an automatic choice. Including Siraj meant our Tail which is already bad becomes absolutely rubbish. It was a dicey situation so we went with Jadeja's all round abilities.

Completely agree with WTC cycle. It needs to be tweaked.

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Virat's captaincy will not be under threat till a credible alternative arrives. I dont think there is any in the pipeline now. But the fact is Kane Williamson was better than Kohli in every aspect. He was a better captain and a better batsman than Kohli this week. We have been comprehensively beaten. I am sure Australia also would have beaten us if Kohli played the full series.

Our batsmen fails everytime there is a little bit of swing or seam. The only time we have won in those conditions was when Pujara was in form. He does not seem to be in his prime now. Even in Australia series, he was a shadow of the earlier Pujara. As of now, everyone in the team is struggling in swinging or seaming conditions.

We are forgetting Captain is only as good as his team. What will Kohli do if Batsman won't apply common sense and play according to match situation. What can he do if people like Pujara will drop sitters at such an important point of match. As a batsman of course Williamson played better but I can't find Kohli making any blunders as Captain in this match.

We are praising Williamson a lot but the fact remains he was quite lucky too. Luck with the toss, luck with India batting first in toughest of start/stop conditions. Got lucky with NZ playing 2 tests in England just before the WTC final giving everyone good rhythm and practice. Got lucky with final being in England which have identical pitches and conditions as NZ. I will stick my neck out and say if Final was in Asia we would be singing praises of Kohli as Captain and NZ being defeated comprehensively.

English conditions won't suit Bumrah's style of bowling. We will be better to play Siraj instead.

Originally Posted by avingodb

Indian team missed Vihari at No. 6.
We had 3 half batsmen in Pant, Ashwin and Jadeja at 6-8 positions and having 5 bowlers in swing friendly conditions was a silly move. What we needed was a proper batsman at 6. Pant's match awareness is poor as was seen yesterday, he was too keen to gift his wicket which he did ultimately.

Also, I think Bumrah played this game on the basis of reputation rather than form. With honest assessment, Siraj would have played ahead of him as well.

Originally Posted by NPV

Middle order batting failures - It's not an easy problem for India to fix. Pujara and Rahane definitely need to be more consistent along with Kohli. Adding a 6th batsman like Vihari may be one option but it can also weaken the bowling a bit. Jadeja as the 6th batsman hasn't really worked out (again a consistency issue). An experimental change could be to replace one of Pujara or Rahane with KL Rahul, again that change will also need some time to settle down and comes with its own risk.

That is our main concern. Moment bowl swings our batsman becomes clueless how to score any runs and even defense isn't that great. Vihari won't replace Jadeja. We will play 5 bowlers. We can play 4 Pacers with Ashwin as lone spinner but that creates a lot of headache with tail being too long. Vihari can only replace Pujara or Rahane if they keep failing. Rahul is again someone with same issue. Ball swings and Rahul struggles.

They should give Gill opening test and if he fails again then Mayank should be drafted in.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by harry10

Including Siraj meant our Tail which is already bad becomes absolutely rubbish. It was a dicey situation so we went with Jadeja's all round abilities.

I have a bone to pick with how cricket is being played these days. Batsmen 1-6 should take up responsibility and score the bulk of the runs and whatever the tail-enders score is a bonus. Not only India, but even England has also started relying on tail-enders. There was an English test 11 in which every player had a first class century

We shouldn't start picking an all-rounder (especially one who may not suit the conditions) over a well-suited bowler due to the superior batting abilities of the former. No disrespect meant to Jadeja, but Siraj could have probably made a bigger impact with the ball.

[papr23]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

We shouldn't start picking an all-rounder (especially one who may not suit the conditions) over a well-suited bowler due to the superior batting abilities of the former. No disrespect meant to Jadeja, but Siraj could have probably made a bigger impact with the ball.

Lack of confidence in Vihari must have forced Jadeja's inclusion. I don't see Virat picking Jadeja for away tours in the near future after this comment:

"You have to reassess and replan and understand what dynamics work for the team and how we can be fearless. Bring in right people who have right mindset to perform," the skipper hinted at overhaul.

https://sports.ndtv.com/icc-world-te...indset-2471023

[Emvi]

A 'blob' has a few iterations in the game of cricket- duck, golden duck, diamond duck, pair, king pair. We might well have a new entrant to the list.

Jasprit Bumrah might have a cricketing feat(a dubious one) named after him. He not only scored a pair in the final of the WTC, also ended up with a "bowling pair" going wicketless in both the innings despite bowling 36 overs cumulatively! Bumrah might not be the first player to achieve this dubious feat(I am not sure). But, doing this in one of the most significant matches in the history of cricket, it will be really hard for Bumrah to escape the ignominy!! Bumblob/Jaspair, anyone?

Note: Bumrah is one of my favourite cricketers.

[msdivy]

I feel ICC is vindicated after completing the test match - with the result - in the stipulated time.

Originally Posted by PPS

Don't think Virat's captaincy is under threat at all.

How can a captain who has reached the finals be under threat of the axe? Kohli is a master of ODIs and adequately managing in tests. His captaincy, if there is a threat, is in T20s, where Rohit Sharma has a better record winning T20 leagues.

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Virat's captaincy will not be under threat till a credible alternative arrives.

Have been hearing about TINA factor. Cricket will be played even if Virat is not available. In fact, last overseas Australian series was won by Rahane without Kohli.

Originally Posted by harry10

Got lucky with NZ playing 2 tests in England just before the WTC final giving everyone good rhythm and practice.

Is it luck or planning by NZ? The current Indian captain feels there is no need for practice matches since the current crop of players are match fit always. The question is why would NZ playing in ENG, where conditions are similar, plan a test series before the finals?

[harry10]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I have a bone to pick with how cricket is being played these days.

We shouldn't start picking an all-rounder (especially one who may not suit the conditions) over a well-suited bowler due to the superior batting abilities of the former. No disrespect meant to Jadeja, but Siraj could have probably made a bigger impact with the ball.

Cricket is an evolving game. The way it used to be played 10 years back no longer works now. Your point was valid 10 years back, not now. Now batsman from 7-11 are looked upon as contributing atleast 60-70 additional runs to the total. Look at how India won in Australia recently. It was only from the contribution of middle and lower order. If people like Ashwin wouldn't have batted so long with Vihari to save Sydney test we would have lost the series instead of winning it. Even this match they were at 160/6 and then runs added by Southee, Jameison etc gave them the lead of 32 which proved crucial in the end.

Could have, would have are hypotheticals and we can't be certain it would happen like we thought. In hindsight of course we can say Siraj could have been a better bet than Jadeja but again the primary issue with India isn't it's bowling attack, it is the abysmal batting performance time and again.

Originally Posted by papr23

Lack of confidence in Vihari must have forced Jadeja's inclusion. I don't see Virat picking Jadeja for away tours in the near future after this comment:

https://sports.ndtv.com/icc-world-te...indset-2471023

If we consider how Virat operates he mostly plays 5 bowlers. So, Jadeja may get rested and Siraj may play or he may gamble again with Jadeja. Ideally, I will play Jadeja for opening test atleast and replace Bumrah with Siraj. Also, Ishant injured his hand in WTC final so we don't know how fit he will be when England tests start.

Originally Posted by Emvi

A 'blob' has a few iterations in the game of cricket- duck, golden duck, diamond duck, pair, king pair. We might well have a new entrant to the list.

Note: Bumrah is one of my favourite cricketers.

He has been amazing for India since his debut so I won't be so harsh on him for a one off performance. It's a game, bad ones happen. Like batsman fail, bowlers do too.

Originally Posted by msdivy

I feel ICC is vindicated after completing the test match - with the result - in the stipulated time.

Have been hearing about TINA factor. Cricket will be played even if Virat is not available. In fact, last overseas Australian series was won by Rahane without Kohli.
Is it luck or planning by NZ? The current Indian captain feels there is no need for practice matches since the current crop of players are match fit always. The question is why would NZ playing in ENG, where conditions are similar, plan a test series before the finals?

That's a wrong assumption. India asked for practice matches but they couldn't get any as English players were busy with Vitality blast and County stuff so Indian players played among themselves. And as IPL was supposed to end by May end there was no time for Indian players to play any tests like NZ did. No one could have known IPL will be stopped due to Covid issues.

And NZ Vs England series was planned before NZ qualified for WTC final. If Aus Vs SA had happened and India won't have defeated England, NZ would have struggled to even qualify. So, they got lucky in all the ways possible. They needed all the luck after the debacle of World Cup 2019. It was quite heartwarming to read what it means to NZ fans and players alike.

On a separate note I thought we may win the series against England this time but this batting performance has given me real doubts.

[vibbs]

Guys the problem is not with the bowling or lower end batting. It is the top and middle order batting.

Our bowlers did as well as Kiwis so long the conditions were conducive. Yes we did not swing as much, but that's okay.

On the last day however, with the sun out, there was no reason for batting to fall like nine pins.

We can't expect the lower order to bail us out every time. Scoring runs is what the top 5 are primarily for in the team. Everytime the ball does somthing, they forget how to bat.

Despite Pujaras and Rahanes, I think top order is heavily dependent on Kohli to score some runs.

[redCherry]

Interesting Side Note :
Looks like NZ has a knack of knocking off India in major tournaments, and I have been witness to all the matches India lost

Source : ESPNCricInfo

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m;view=results

[PPS]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Guys the problem is not with the bowling or lower end batting. It is the top and middle order batting.

Now that there is a WTC at stake, which wasn't the case earlier, hope the likes of Pujara & Rahane are gradually phased out & young blood inducted into the team.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by PPS

Now that there is a WTC at stake, which wasn't the case earlier, hope the likes of Pujara & Rahane are gradually phased out & young blood inducted into the team.

You wish. But, in reality watch Rahane play his one crucial knock of series in 3rd or 4th test and cement his place for another year