[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by msdivy

This article captures how Dhoni is harming India's winning chances - Defensive Dhoni hurts India again

I think the article hits the right spots. Even though I am a huge admirer of MSD, the things that he does absolutely baffle me, specially in Tests. He tries the same thing in ODIs as well, but the errors are not that glaring or visible.

I think the combo of Duncan and MSD is hurting India and not just MSD. As the article correctly points out Duncan practically 'invented' the deep point position in Test matches.

I simply cannot fathom how we managed to fudge this test match. No inspiration, no ideas. And test defeats rankle, rankle a lot - but I guess its just us, not the team, who are laughing away to the bank (via the IPL) and Test defeats are forgotten pretty quickly.

He should learn a thing or two from Clarke as a skipper - even when his team was on the verge of losing in England, he kept attacking - always going for a win - never ever thought how to save the game. It may have not paid dividends then, but look how things have changed.

Its all about the mindset. Sometimes he acts too cute for a Test match. And unfortunately we do not have anyone who can lead the Test side right now. ODIs & T20s - Yes, Tests - No.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by PPS

Sometime yesterday he had a very deep 1st slip halfway to the boundary line for Virat Kohli's bowling!

Yes I remember that. Gavaskar was on commentary then and he said, "This not only takes the cake, this takes the entire bakery".

Originally Posted by pratyush6

And unfortunately we do not have anyone who can lead the Test side right now. ODIs & T20s - Yes, Tests - No.

Why do you think so? Graeme Smith was given test captaincy when he had played hardly some 6 or 7 tests.

I am sure most people are fed up of Dhoni as our test skipper. We need to take that risk and hand the captaincy over to Kohli.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by Oxy

Why do you think so? Graeme Smith was given test captaincy when he had played hardly some 6 or 7 tests.

I am sure most people are fed up of Dhoni as our test skipper. We need to take that risk and hand the captaincy over to Kohli.

What makes you feel Kohli is ready for Test captaincy? It might prove disastrous for his batting. We can test him; if he captained Four day games in India like in the Irani trophy (and pigs would fly). I am of the theory we should have two different captains for different formats. And the most flamboyant player need not be the best skipper.
I am happy to give Kohli the reigns in ODIs and T20s - that might spur MSD on for Tests as well. It's not that he does not have the brains, he has just become a different man to when he started (read : more pragmatic, less controversial, would like to be seen doing the right things, instead of following his gut)

A lot of the rut lies in Indian players not having sufficient rest. That's why I like the case of Pujara - he is somewhat less affected by ODIs, T20s and IPL. He would rarely have success in IPL and that might turn out to be good for him.

We also need our young batsmen playing in County Cricket or Australian domestic matches so that their base is good. But who is thinking about that?
The (negligible) rest is replaced by ad films and practice in different conditions by the IPL. What leg to do have to stand on?

[harry10]

Like gavaskar always says catches win matches. Dropped Williamson in first test and match slipped. Dropped McCullum in this one and same story. Most importantly both the times they were sitters no one will drop. But ya our players are busy dating movie stars and dreaming about how much money they are getting in ipl so who the hell cares about practising catching.

Why Ganguly, dravid, Sachin and VVS were greats? Leave batting.
Ganguly a liability in field was always an excellent catcher.
Laxman and Dravid world class in slips. You won't remember Sachin dropping a catch in field or running on one limb in the field.
GOD I miss those guys. That was a time cricket was a pleasure to Watch.

I am sorry if I sound stupid but I don't regard McCullum triple as great. Our bowling attack is worst in world cricket . We play any team and their best scores come against our bowling. So I won't rate anyone scoring against us as great. Score the same against SA and Oz attack and yes you are great.

Till the time Dhoni is not sacked as a test captain and his favoritism closed we won't win overseas. No point in expecting otherwise. Also sack Fletcher as he has done nothing. Complete failure.

[hothatchaway]

^^^^ Is it because McCullum's image as a dasher? While the innings didnt start off on a great note and M/S Kohli and Sharma dropped dollies to give him new leases of life, I think he gave an object lesson to our IPL fueled cavaliers on how to bat to save a test match. He cut out flamboyance like a dieter does on cheesecake and wore our bowlers down. Granted that our guys would be clueless at the first sign of resistance (not to speak of a captain who had made his disdain for test cricket known and still carries on like its personal fiefdom) but it was a battle of attrition. He even inspired Watling, who was on a pair, to come up with a knock of grit and character.

Even then, it was a test match which we let drift. Dhoni is like one of our Bollywood potboiler directors; give him a formula and he will make a flick that will rake in the money. But faced with a canvas where substance is needed, his 'jhatkas' are no good. He doesnt seem to be serious either; just read the transcipt of his interview and it becomes clear. Like his godfather Srinivasan, he has learnt the fine art of blaming it on god, the weather and the economy, all barring him

[Marauder]

Everyone keeps making the same excuse of Indian bowlers like Zaheer,Ishant etc. not being fast enough to dismiss the opposition in away conditions. They say if India had possessed a Steyn or Johnson then they would have cleaned up the lower order in tricky situations.

But, I would like to ask if India has ever has had a real pace attack?
Even during Ganguly's captaincy there were Agarkar and others who did the job. India's best seam bowler,Kapil Dev, was only a medium pacer.It is Dhoni and Fletcher's defensive technique that is the problem.
It is only recently India have seemed totally clueless while bowling. After seeing some of the performances from the fast bowlers in NZ & SA, it is clear that they don't lack the ability to take 20 wickets.They just need a captain who believes in them and does not go on the defensive as soon as possible.

Fletcher surely needs to go and Dhoni needs to be removed as Captain in Tests. Also, I don't think he deserves a place in the Test side either; his batting in overseas conditions is poor and he is definitely not the best keeper. AFAIK,he has not scored a Test century abroad.

He along with Srinivasan have created Chennai Super Kings as a launchpad for future India players. CSK players are given an unusually long rope.
It would be really sad if Srinivasan gets re-elected as BCCI president in the upcoming "election'

[harry10]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

^^^^ Is it because McCullum's image as a dasher? While the innings didnt start off on a great note and M/S Kohli and Sharma dropped dollies to give him new leases of life, I think he gave an object lesson to our IPL fueled cavaliers on how to bat to save a test match. He cut out flamboyance like a dieter does on cheesecake and wore our bowlers down. Granted that our guys would be clueless at the first sign of resistance (not to speak of a captain who had made his disdain for test cricket known and still carries on like its personal fiefdom) but it was a battle of attrition. He even inspired Watling, who was on a pair, to come up with a knock of grit and character.

Not at all.
Sehwag is a dasher but his Test record is impeccable.
I said so cos our bowling attack is so poor i can't say the guy scoring against us is a great player. When he scores against Steyn or Johnson i will call him great.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by Marauder

it is clear that they don't lack the ability to take 20 wickets.

They clearly lack the ability to take 20 wickets! Bhuvneshwar who till a few months ago was our most consistent bowler is struggling to get into the playing 11. Just wait & watch what happens in England a few months down the line.

They just need a captain who believes in them and does not go on the defensive as soon as possible.

Our Captain definitely believes in Ishant, else which other team would still persist with such a mediocre bowler!
Captain is only as good as his team, he has no choice but to be defensive if his frontline bowlers are leaking runs.

Fletcher surely needs to go and Dhoni needs to be removed as Captain in Tests.

We do not have any other alternative for Dhoni when it comes to captaincy atleast. Don't think he is a bad captain, just give him a good team.
Fletcher & our unknown Bowling Coach need to be sacked urgently! Maybe our Board might wait till we get a drubbing from England.

[Marauder]

Originally Posted by PPS

They clearly lack the ability to take 20 wickets! Bhuvneshwar who till a few months ago was our most consistent bowler is struggling to get into the playing 11. Just wait & watch what happens in England a few months down the line.

Exactly, what happens to all these bowlers who are brilliant in their 1st season and are suddenly mediocre later, after which they are dropped from the team

Originally Posted by PPS

Our Captain definitely believes in Ishant, else which other team would still persist with such a mediocre bowler!
Captain is only as good as his team, he has no choice but to be defensive if his frontline bowlers are leaking runs.

I agree that he is inconsistent but I'm saying that he has the ability to bowl well if he is given the correct guidance. So many experts talk about his wrist position being wrong, I don't know what the coach is doing as it has been talked about for a long while now.

Originally Posted by PPS

We do not have any other alternative for Dhoni when it comes to captaincy atleast. Don't think he is a bad captain, just give him a good team.

I don't agree that we do not have alternatives, as someone earlier mentioned, Graeme Smith had played very few matches when he was given the captaincy. Dhoni himself was not considered as a captain until he won the T20 world cup.

Originally Posted by PPS

Fletcher & our unknown Bowling Coach need to be sacked urgently! Maybe our Board might wait till we get a drubbing from England.

I think they may wait till the drubbing we will get in 2015 World Cup

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by PPS

We do not have any other alternative for Dhoni when it comes to captaincy atleast.

There is no concept of 'no alternative'. What if a plane with Dhoni on aboard goes down? Will India's performance drop in cricket?

Don't think he is a bad captain, just give him a good team.

What would be the definition of a good team? Is NZ a good team? Or SA, Aus? Clarke could have said his team isn't good when they lost to SA, Ind & Eng. But the same team won against Eng, and now against SA. Hypothetically, if Dhoni leads Aus against SA, will he win the series?

Note: Selectors realized that Dhoni isn't good for tests long back. But when they tried to replace him, this happened - 'Srinivasan did not approve decision to replace Dhoni'

Former national selector Mohinder Amarnath today named BCCI president N Srinivasan as the person who overruled the "unanimous" decision to replace Mahendra Singh Dhoni as captain after India's eight consecutive overseas Test defeats.

"It was a unanimous decision, all five selectors supported it. The Board President (Srinivasan) did not approve the unanimous decision to replace Mahendra Singh Dhoni," Amarnath told CNN-IBN.

"Why do you need a selection committee there if one person needs to be at the helm of affairs."

If you don't fix a leaking bucket, will the leak heal itself?

[vb-saan]

We are losing the big picture here. Dhoni and his team is acting as the ambassador for the game globally. They are helping to revive the interest for the game in countries where it’s actually on a bit of decline. The just concluded test brought back spectators to the stadium, got someone to score the first test triple century for NZ, their highest test innings score etc. Indian team is helping to write history

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by vb-san

We are losing the big picture here. Dhoni and his team is acting as the ambassador for the game globally. They are helping to revive the interest for the game in countries where it’s actually on a bit of decline. The just concluded test brought back spectators to the stadium, got someone to score the first test triple century for NZ, their highest test innings score etc. Indian team is helping to write history

And not to worry about minor stuff like reputations, because if things ever threaten to get out of hand, Srinivasan can always pull BCCI's financial clout and get every test-playing nation banned that's above (or even close to) us in the rankings, making us de facto world champions

Move over VISA, there's nothing BCCI's cheque-book can't buy in the cricketing world. Howzzat?

[PPS]

Originally Posted by msdivy

What if a plane with Dhoni on aboard goes down? Will India's performance drop in cricket?

Offcourse it will, drastically!

What would be the definition of a good team? Is NZ a good team?

On present form in their home conditions it is a good team.

Hypothetically, if Dhoni leads Aus against SA, will he win the series?

Offcourse, he will be thrilled to bits! He would anyday prefer Mitchell Johnson instead of Ishant.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by PPS

Offcourse it will, drastically!

On present form in their home conditions it is a good team.

Offcourse, he will be thrilled to bits! He would anyday prefer Mitchell Johnson instead of Ishant.

My take

Originally Posted by msdivy

What if a plane with Dhoni on aboard goes down? Will India's performance drop in cricket?

Dhoni's presence or absence won't affect the current team's performance.

What would be the definition of a good team? Is NZ a good team?

IND is better team than NZ in batting, bowling and equally matched in fielding. But Dhoni is,
1) Unable to make best use of available resources due to poor tactics.
2) Unable to inspire his team due to poor ideology.

Hypothetically, if Dhoni leads Aus against SA, will he win the series?

Dhoni will lose the series.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by PPS

Offcourse it will, drastically!

No it won't. Refer Dhoni the batsman's test stats.

Originally Posted by PPS

Offcourse, he will be thrilled to bits! He would anyday prefer Mitchell Johnson instead of Ishant.

If he doesn't prefer Ishant, why does he keep selecting him in the playing eleven, over the likes of Umesh Yadav?