[NPV]

Why did MS Dhoni travel to Australia in the first place if he had plans of retirement ?
Luckily he didn't lose his last match as captain and can claim he left on a high note as well as for being not out in the second innings!
Anyways, he was woefully out of form, hope we now get a good all-rounder to occupy that slot

[Marauder]

Originally Posted by NPV

Why did MS Dhoni travel to Australia in the first place if he had plans of retirement ?

I don't think he had any plans of retiring when he traveled to Australia. He just had enough and he knew his time was up.

Originally Posted by pratyush6

All things said an done, I am thankful for the guy to have played for us, he has had the single biggest impact on the game after Sachin. Hats off MSD.

+1, he has been a brilliant player for India. People are never happy, they were pressurizing him to quit earlier and now that he has retired, people are creating conspiracy theories.
Some want a "farewell" test, some are saying he abandoned a sinking ship. Why can't people respect the individual's decision?

There was no point in continuing; the series was already lost, there are no Tests for a while and no overseas tours for a couple of years where he could somehow resurrect his record.

[bluevolt]

All thanks to Indian media aka Hindi news channels who were airing every other day in their so called cricket expert discussion programs about Dhoni's retirement. They could have at least him complete this entire series.

This has to happen after all Indian media was planning his retirement right before series was even started.
He just succumb before them. Indian media is great - they can make sachin retire, make Him score 100 centuries and what not. :banghead:

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by bluevolt

All thanks to Indian media aka Hindi news channels who were airing every other day in their so called cricket expert discussion programs about Dhoni's retirement. They could have at least him complete this entire series.

I don't think the media had anything to do with it. Sure they are talking crap stories all the time but I think Dhoni surprised everyone with the decision. The post match show, Manjrekar, Gavaskar, Chopra were all talking about why Smith decided to declare. No hint of anything related to Dhoni.

From his point, the series is gone. The test was drawn and he as usual saved the match by staying on the crease. Even if he wins the next match, no one is really going to mention that. It will only be a series that was lost in the first two matches.

He pulled a rabbit out of the hat once again. Great man he is.

I really wish we do well in the ODI and the WC. He really deserves to go out big. He might not have the best technique for test but his determination and will are something that the future teams should consider and carry forward.

Kohli needs to wise up. He cannot act like he is doing now, being the captain of the team. The real appreciation for Dhoni will come after his time. Somehow a lot are failing to see what Dhoni brings to the team, in his captaincy, WK and as a batsman.

Dhoni has lost one and drawn a test match in this series. Kohli has lost one. Lets see how he comes back in the second chance. All the best Virat.

Dhoni, an enigma and a legend if there was one.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Your words seem contradictory right?

I don't understand how.

My first sentence is related to test cricket in which is was out of form both as a batsman and as a captain. Two days ago, they were showing a stat during the course of the match where it showed that since 2011, his win percentage away from home was only around 10%. His batting stats in tests n the recent past are also no good. He was under performing for sure and he resigned before the selectors could even think of dropping him.

My second sentence is related to the shorter formats in which he is still a very valuable player for the team. I said it was good because he didn't decide to retire from all formats...especially with the World Cup around the corner. If he had retired, the team morale would be affected.

For example, in the last test match, when a small shuffle in the batting order because of Dhawan's injury resulted in a disastrous team batting performance(As claimed by Dhoni himself); his retirement from the shorter formats would've had a similar effect on the team's performance
For the tests however,added to the above reason, this series is gone and the next test is at least 6 months away.

[mercedised]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I don't understand how.

For the tests however,added to the above reason, this series is gone and the next test is at least 6 months away.

Australia's winning percentage in Asia is 11%. Same story with India having 9% winning rate out of sub-continent.

[Eddy]

There is no debating the fact that:

- MSD was the best captain India has ever had, along with Sourav.
- His record as a player in all formats is very decent - he is India's most and world's fifth (?) best wicket-keeper by dismissal counts

Butttt

- I do not agree with him leaving midway through the series. By all means, retire but finish the god-damn series. This not the way to handover the captaincy to a younger player.

I suspect some discontent in the dressing room.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Butttt

- I do not agree with him leaving midway through the series. By all means, retire but finish the god-damn series. This not the way to handover the captaincy to a younger player.

I suspect some discontent in the dressing room.

I feel the same too. I wonder under whose name this series loss will be written in the books...Dhoni's or Kohli's

Originally Posted by mercedised

Australia's winning percentage in Asia is 11%. Same story with India having 9% winning rate out of sub-continent.

So? Should we be happy with whatever is the percentage?

This is very similar to what kids say when they get less marks. Pointing at someone else who has lesser marks especially when that someone is regarded as a good scorer. I consider it as a mere attempt of consolation. That leaves no scope for improvement.

That 9% is the least amongst indian captains IIRC as per the stat shown on TV.

Dhoni's performance in the shorter formats of the game are good and his match finishing abilities are unparallelled.
That along with his lightning fast keeping, match awareness, cool head etc... make me a big fan of him.
But I'm sorry, i'm not his fan when it comes to test matches.

Anyways, in a country where everyone is a cricket expert, I understand that many will not opine with me. And you may agree to disagree.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Eddy

There is no debating the fact that:

- MSD was the best captain India has ever had, along with Sourav.
- His record as a player in all formats is very decent - he is India's most and world's fifth (?) best wicket-keeper by dismissal counts

Butttt

- I do not agree with him leaving midway through the series. By all means, retire but finish the god-damn series. This not the way to handover the captaincy to a younger player.

I suspect some discontent in the dressing room.

Agree. This is the polite cricketing equivalent of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue...ndant_incident !!

or like a comedian on twitter said:

Dhoni just did a gujju. He chose to retire from that form of cricket which gives him the lowest earning per minute played.

[faustus77]

Hi everybody.
A bit of statistics regarding bowling. Saw it on TV yesterday.
Top 10 Asian wicket takers outside Asia. Minimum 25 innings.
9 are Pakistanis and 1 Sri Lankan viz Muralitharan.
This speaks for itself
Regards

[mercedised]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I feel the same too. I wonder under whose name this series loss will be written in the books...Dhoni's or Kohli's

Guess what? I was about to write in my previous post that the Australian winning percentage by no means says that Indians should also have similar stats outside sub-continent. But, as stated by someone a captain is as good as the team he gets. He could'nt have done much, we should have a look at the series a few years ago when Ishant went to Australia and shattered their batting line-up badly, Ponting had no answers for his balls, I don't remember who was the captain at that time. In this series, atleast if we had one bowler who could have puzzled Australians like what Zaheer used to do when he was at the peak of his form, things would have been different. Can't blame captain.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by mercedised

He could'nt have done much, we should have a look at the series a few years ago when Ishant went to Australia and shattered their batting line-up badly,

This never happened.

Originally Posted by mercedised

Ponting had no answers for his balls, I don't remember who was the captain at that time.

He bowled one good spell to Ponting where Ponting struggled and got out. That's all.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by mercedised

a captain is as good as the team he gets. He could'nt have done much...atleast if we had one bowler who could have puzzled Australians like what Zaheer used to do when he was at the peak of his form, things would have been different. Can't blame captain.

Drawing analogy, If we can't blame a captain for a loss, we shouldn't give him credit for team winning also. If we do so, it will be very unfair of us won't it?

As a captain, he took the team to number 1, he was the most successful captain of the country.
So did it happen all because of the team and he had no role to play at all? Not really. He was a great captain and he won us a lot of games. but off late, he was going down and it started to show in results.

So, his retirement was very well timed if you ask me. Before anyone could drop him, he resigned and retired.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

So, his retirement was very well timed if you ask me. Before anyone could drop him, he resigned and retired.

I agree with the timing in the larger context, but it was one test match too early IMO. Should've done it after the Sydney test, and avoided all these question marks.

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Some questions that I have for you:
1. Can you name some better WK Batsmen in India?

- He does not deserve a place in the test side and his recent track record is ample proof. WRT to a replacement, one will know only when fresh blood is tested and yes, why only Dhoni, even the Pujaras and the Rohit Sharmas and Shamis should be put on the line if they dont deliver. We always seek refuge in this hypothesis that 'there is no replacement', pray tell me how will you discover new talent if you dont throw them in the deep end?

Originally Posted by pratyush6

2. Any evidence for promoting his own players?

- Refusing to drop players even after extended bad runs - Raina, Ashwin, Jadeja etc, one can also insinuate that CSK players had extended runs in the national side and was granted immunity from poor performances. Its only under Dhoni (and I dont want to bring Azhar and his disreputable tenure in comparison here) that I saw the insistence to stick to the same xi, regardless of repeated failures. Didnt matter in the limited overs format as the team has done well, no excuses for flogging the same dead horses in the longer format with dismal results to show

Originally Posted by pratyush6

3. Feathering their own nests - The guy has played 90 Tests, he is retiring before a year which all Tests will be at home - he could easily play 100 Tests

This is where our serf mentality comes in, no matter what he or anybody else has done, nobody is bigger than the game. Why only a hundred, he could go on to play 150 tests, if people like you and I only keep paying homage to what he has done in the past and keep mum about his current showing. He should have gone long before the 90 tests and retained his grace, that he has done now, all the better for him and his reputation. And Dhoni is not the first, we have a long tradition (Kapil, Sourav, Sachin) who would just refuse to believe that professional athletes have a sell by date, after all this is not a desk job where you chain yourself to the chair and refuse to go. Sourav had to be dropped before he made his famous comeback, Kapil looked pathetic as he would amble in, only to to painfully crawl towards his WR and Sachin, well sacrilegious as it might be, he would have done his legend no harm if he had chosen to bow out a tad earlier. The only legend who had the both grace and good sense in equal measure is Mr Sunil Gavaskar, who made 96 in his last innings and went when people were still wondering 'why' and not 'why not'. I would not completely blame Dhoni here, who knows what his private thoughts were, the reality is in our country, whenever we have a good thing going we expect it to last forever and a little bit more so that succeeding generations are also consumed by our greatness

Originally Posted by pratyush6

I find it rather amusing we jump on someone who has retired - whatever reasons - rather than thanking and being grateful for what he has provided to the game, we start punching holes in his character

Let me introduce a concept here, the right to scrutinize and judge the performance of public figures. Evaluating performance post retirement is not akin to posthumous character assassination. Every athletes' legacy is and will be judged, encomiums will be showered and lapses laid threadbare, whether we like it or not. Dhoni is perhaps the best exponent of the limited overs format and the best finisher ever, his exploits in the traditional version however, has been in comparison, far more modest. His recent showing overseas has only reinforced that. Hope he goes out on a far higher note in the slam bang versions