[carboy]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Now there is talk of linking your UID for passports. You will have to sign an authorisation / waiver. The first obvious benefit!

What exactly is the benefit from this?

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I am sure most people going for a US Visa do not think twice about fingerprinting. Also, many countries now need an Iris scan for the electronic passport.

3 things.
- As far as I am concerned, biometrics is just part of my gripe against Aadhar or a national ID card. I don't want a National ID card without biometrics either.
- Fingerprints for a specific purpose (though I don't like it) is not as bad as fingerprints for a national ID.
- I am more worried about the Indian Govt having my fingerprints than any Foreign Govt. The Indian Govt has power over me, foreign govts have very little power over me as long as I am in India.

[Chetan_Rao]

I enrolled for UID 2 years ago along with my parents. Their Aadhaar cards were finally delivered a couple of months ago, but mine never arrived. I was finally told to re-enroll as there was some (un-explainable) issue with my bio-metric data.

The only reason I'm doing it now is my workplace is conducting an enrollment drive, so I won't need to run around. I'm very skeptical about the whole process though, and still unsure whether it's a good idea.

[gsurya]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

I'm very skeptical about the whole process though, and still unsure whether it's a good idea.

If & when Aadhar is used fully on 18 targeted benefit schemes including Food Security Bill it is expected to SAVE 45000 cr that is lost today in leakages. Moreover it will ensure the actual person gets the benefits, not some middleman. Just for that, its totally worth it.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by gsurya

If & when Aadhar is used fully on 18 targeted benefit schemes including Food Security Bill it is expected to SAVE 45000 cr that is lost today in leakages. Moreover it will ensure the actual person gets the benefits, not some middleman. Just for that, its totally worth it.

Sounds great on paper, but most of India's policy decisions only survive until the next general election, if they actually make it that far.

The Food Security Bill is a bit of a false starter. Our government doesn't even have the money required to run the scheme, forget saving money once it's fully operational.

[binand]

Originally Posted by gsurya

Aadhar is at least having biometrics in highly secured environment & servers stored in encrypted databases that can only be accessed by webservices.

Sounds like a commercial for Aadhar. What secured environment and encrypted databases? How do these stack up against the might of the Indian bureaucracy? A couple of weeks back there was a case reported from Kerala, where a suspended cop, who wanted to trace someone who eloped with the relative of a friend, simply walked into the nearest police station, got the inspector there to ask the Cyber Cell to trace the guy's cell phone, and attempted to kidnap the guy from the road in broad daylight. How exactly is the "highly secured environment and servers and encrypted databases" going to prevent such gross, unpardonable intrusion of someone's privacy?

Originally Posted by gsurya

If & when Aadhar is used fully on 18 targeted benefit schemes including Food Security Bill it is expected to SAVE 45000 cr that is lost today in leakages. Moreover it will ensure the actual person gets the benefits, not some middleman. Just for that, its totally worth it.

If anything, UPA-2 has made big numbers accessible to people. :-) The leakage from NREGA is at the cash distribution level. Sarpanchs who take the money on behalf of the workers. How is Aadhar (and DBT) going to stop that? If the all-powerful sarpanch tells you that's he's going to keep your ATM card for you, will you say no to him (he who gives you work in the first place)?

Ref: http://www.downtoearth.org.in/conten...naire-mukhiyas

Maybe we need ATMs with retina scanners.

I just hope the money wasted on Aadhar were used in improving primary education, healthcare, sanitation, potable water access and a bunch of other really pressing issues instead of on vapourware.

[TheTeacher]

Originally Posted by gsurya

If & when Aadhar is used fully on 18 targeted benefit schemes including Food Security Bill it is expected to SAVE 45000 cr that is lost today in leakages. Moreover it will ensure the actual person gets the benefits, not some middleman. Just for that, its totally worth it.

Do you actually believe that ???!!! We Indians are geniuses at circumventing the system. Are you aware that there is a significant percentage of PAN cards that are fake / duplicate which used to avoid tax?

I read the other day that for manual labourers, their fingerprints taken for Aadhar are virtually useless because their palms and fingers are so calloused.

Wait and see how this pans out! As many have pointed out, it is our beloved government that is implementing it.

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by gsurya

We were the largest democracy to use EVMs for voting.. now others are adopting it.

We brought in IT services outsourcing revolution.. others copied it.

We invented MGNREGA... UN loved it & African countries are implementing it.

We invented Mid Day meal scheme.. UK is now implementing it on pilot basis.

We have invented UID / Aadhar model... I am sure others will follow. Its brilliant cutting edge technology put to use in the worlds largest IT project.

China leads the world on so many issues, why are we dissing a few things we lead the world on?

Its ok to oppose the Govt of the day on issues without dissing every single achievement of ours as a nation - this is what a mature democracy is about.

The only thing we have perfected in recent times is corruption.

Originally Posted by gsurya

If & when Aadhar is used fully on 18 targeted benefit schemes including Food Security Bill it is expected to SAVE 45000 cr that is lost today in leakages.

You seriously believe our politicians want to plug this leakage. What will the politicians and their minions survive on.

[naveenroy]

I have kept resisting even the thought of having to register for this "card". I think of it as a intrusion into my privacy and personal data. Though it has been advised that the data will be highly secure etc, we all know how that will work out in India. And you never know what my data will be used for. And to think my fingerprints will be scanned and held at such a "secure" database!

I am happy to read the SC's ruling regarding this and though a lot of money has been spent on this, I sincerely hope this whole thing is scrapped!

[carboy]

Originally Posted by naveenroy

I have kept resisting even the thought of having to register for this "card". I think of it as a intrusion into my privacy and personal data.

Intrusion of privacy by whom?

Originally Posted by naveenroy

Though it has been advised that the data will be highly secure etc, we all know how that will work out in India.

Secure isn't good enough for me because I am worried about the govt linking together all my data in different areas. I am less worried about a third party.

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by naveenroy

I think of it as a intrusion into my privacy and personal data.

Originally Posted by carboy

Secure isn't good enough for me because I am worried about the govt linking together all my data in different areas. I am less worried about a third party.

The intrusion is already in there.

CIBIL has been doing it without any public notifications. You will know the power of CIBIL scores only at the time of applying for loans. All your credit cards and bank loans are tracked.

The IT department is already making good use of your PAN to track your transactions.

Aadhaar is an ID system, to verify your identity better than just a number.

IMO, The scope for misuse of Aadhaar is far lesser than these financial systems. By integration, it will make life difficult for crooks, but yes there will be collateral damage.

[sa_kiran]

Nandan Nilekani is part of every committee and group that is making Aadhaar mandatory
- http://moneylife.in/article/nandan-n...ory/34677.html

In a strange case of conflict of interests, Nandan Nilekani, the IT czar, is either heading or part of a committee or group that is turning the 'voluntary' UID number or Aadhaar of residents as mandatory for citizens to access several services and benefits from the government

[sa_kiran]

Aadhaar ID or internal passport? - http://www.moneylife.in/article/aadh...ort/34729.html

PS Deodhar is former advisor to Rajiv Gandhi on electronics, but even his article in 2009, highlighting the problems with Aadhaar, was ignored in a hurry to push through Nandan Nilekani's ambitious and expensive UID scheme

On 1 July 2009, in a Delhi seminar on the subject of national identification (NID) card, I opposed the proposal to get into national ID cards for every citizen in the country. I fully endorsed the need to create “Citizen Data Base” by allocating a unique national identity number (NIN) to every citizen and resident of India as was suggested by our former President, Dr APJ Abdul Kalam, sometime ago in context of voter’s list. Let me also first establish my credentials by adding that I am a technologist who had brought smart card technology to India 23 years ago and I have followed ID card technology since, having personally developed India’s own smart card pay phone as well as applications for smart cards in financial and health sectors. Smart Card Forum of India in 2002 named me as “Smart Card Pioneer in India.” Yet I opposed this move.

[gsurya]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

The only thing we have perfected in recent times is corruption.

You seriously believe our politicians want to plug this leakage. What will the politicians and their minions survive on.

Correction; we ALWAYS had corruption.. what we are getting better at is more empowered institutions, more aware citizens & more empowered activists thanks to RTI. More politicians are now in jail in this last decade than ever before; that is a great positive change. It shows people that nobody is immune from the law. We need judicial & police reform to get even better.

Same politicians also passed the RTI bill that is giving us transparency like never before... so there are good & bad people like in society. We need to spot & choose the right ones.

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

Aadhaar ID or internal passport? - http://www.moneylife.in/article/aadh...ort/34729.html

I see you have good expertise and the experience to challenge the system.

Can you elaborate a bit on why you do not approve of Aadhaar and why NID is a better system?

To a layman like myself, both systems look similar. End of day they are creating a national database of individuals residing in this country. Guess only difference is NID is a proof of nationality as well.

Can't the two be merged easily?

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by HillMan

I see you have good expertise and the experience to challenge the system. Can you elaborate a bit on why you do not approve of Aadhaar and why NID is a better system?

I don't know about NID, so I can't comment about it. But, Aadhar is what MUST be avoided.