[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

@dot: Completely agree. Bangalore was fine till the late 90's. With the IT boom, and the increasing cosmopolitian population the locals just didn't react well. Initially there was admiration and people not speaking Kannada were treated like royality and given a warm welcome. Then by mid 2000's the love started turning to hate and now there is an undercurrent of hostility towards anyone percieved as an outsider. The people who have been here before the 90's, myself included don't face the issue though. That is one of the reasons why Bangalore is not a metropolitian city. It is not cosmopolitian enough, unlike the four Metros.
The solution will be to integrate into the society with the least fuss and to acknowledge that the local is your better. This often gets your work done.
Humility is a virture.

I somehow can't agree with you on this.

Bangalore is, by far, the best city to live in. Believe me. I've just come back from a 7-day stay in Calcutta.

I used to think Bangalore is a horrible place, but what I reality check I got this month.

I have been to the other metros in the country, and I can safely say that Bangalore is a very civilized place. Yes, there is road-rage and there are incidents that is best left forgotten. It's bound to happen when you put so many people in a small place. But the people here are much nicer, even if you don't speak Kannada.

Now even though I've been staying here for as long as I can remember, Kannada doesn't come naturally to me. And sometimes, I tend to speak English to auto-drivers and bus-conductors. And believe me, they make an effort. Speaking Kannada does help, especially if you're dealing with a nasty local who is out to fleece you. But by and large, Bangalore is a city that 'accepts'.

I have not seen this in other cities, where Regionalism is widely practiced and advocated. The streets of Bangalore may be crowded and full of two-wheelers and BMTC buses cutting you off, but there is a sense of decency and compassion that I've noticed, apart from some little order that I've noticed too. People don't try and take you apart here, at the very whimper of a fight.

Believe you me, it's much worse every where else. And it pains me that that's how it is.

This could be attributed to the fact that Bangalore isn't as crowded as some of the other larger metros.

I study in a college that has quite a few people from other parts of the country. People from Delhi, Hyderabad, Mumbai and other parts of the country. And all of them concur.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I somehow can't agree with you on this.

Bangalore is, by far, the best city to live in. Believe me. I've just come back from a 7-day stay in Calcutta.

The thing is Bangalore is not the heaven it used to be. Ever since the IT boom took over this city, the innocence is lost. Heavy commercialization, population explosion, pressure on the inadequate infrastructure have taken its toll on the city. The people who would happily agree to : 'swalpa adjust madi' are not so eager to do the same now. My family moved from Bombay to Bangalore in 1990. The city was so realxed and easy going at that time that my dad would say "Bangaloreans are so lazy!". Bombay was cut throat in those days only. Bangalore has now reached that stage. Even so, I agree with you , its the best place to be

[suhaas307]

^^ True.

Just like Bangalore, every city has changed and grown. The population has obviously gone up. Bangalore has become cut-throat, the way Mumbai used to be a decade ago. But cities that were cut-throat back then (like Mumbai and Delhi) have become cut-everything!

[wildsdi5530]

@suhaas307: I agreee that Bangalore is the best place to live in. I've recently relocated back to Bangalore after a gap of 15 years pursuing my education. Unfortunatily things are not the same. The only other metros I've been to are Delhi and Chennai. While the people there are not as friendly as some Bangaloreans, As long as you mind your business, people let you alone. Even in the security conscious Delhi, you're observed, but never interfered. I value this independence in privacy. In Bangalore, you will hear comments, unwanted opinions and downright rowdyism.

[rki2007]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

The thing is Bangalore is not the heaven it used to be. Ever since the IT boom took over this city, the innocence is lost. Heavy commercialization, population explosion, pressure on the inadequate infrastructure have taken its toll on the city. The people who would happily agree to : 'swalpa adjust madi' are not so eager to do the same now. My family moved from Bombay to Bangalore in 1990. The city was so realxed and easy going at that time that my dad would say "Bangaloreans are so lazy!". Bombay was cut throat in those days only. Bangalore has now reached that stage. Even so, I agree with you , its the best place to be

+1 to that. I really miss the real Bangalore as it used to be. Green , green everywhere. But now you can find just flyovers and traffic everywhere. IT growth is a boon or a ban? Everything has become commercial and your innocence is en cashed. Day by day Bangalore is turning worse. I personally feel still North Bangalore isn't very disturbed and also not polluted with IT companies and it is a good place to stay.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by mempheS.D

I didn't want to start up another thread. But, 2 consecutive incidents last night definitely got me totally fueled up to throw a few punches if not pull a shot with an air-gun.

mempheS.D I'm really sorry to hear about such an unfortunate incident. These days driving and living in metro cities has become like a daily fight and you don't know what may happen to you the next moment.

I would just like to quote this from M.K.Gandhi some very known quotes.
"Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary" & "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence."

Sometimes I do like to a give piece of mind to those idiot drivers out there but better sense prevails. They are not going to learn and it doesn't make sense fighting over small issues. What I really felt unfortunate is that policemen who are there for our security harassing you for no known reasons.

Originally Posted by reswaran

Nearly 6 months ago, I remember telling off bad drivers. Now I keep my big mouth shut and just inhale and exhale deeply. I don't want a bullet in my brain.

That's what it has become these days. Minding one's business.

Originally Posted by Rajith

@mempheS - Boss please learn kannada, half of your problem will solved by itself.

I have been in Mumbai for 19 yrs and whenever a traffic police stops me I always talk to him in Hindi and never does it makes any difference if you know Marathi or not. Why should local language make a difference if you are right.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

@suhaas307: I agreee that Bangalore is the best place to live in. I've recently relocated back to Bangalore after a gap of 15 years pursuing my education. Unfortunatily things are not the same. The only other metros I've been to are Delhi and Chennai. While the people there are not as friendly as some Bangaloreans, As long as you mind your business, people let you alone. Even in the security conscious Delhi, you're observed, but never interfered. I value this independence in privacy. In Bangalore, you will hear comments, unwanted opinions and downright rowdyism.

+1. I have felt this too and actually felt very sad. I love bangalore a lot. Stayed there for 7 years. I can speak decent Kannada with a rare grammatical mistake ( took classes for it and all). Overall bangalore is a lot more sober when it comes to humanity. You will see a lot of hostility in Delhi when you interact with people where as in bangalore the chances of someone stopping and telling you the right directions/helping you are much more. But the ONE BIG difference I have always felt in bangalore is that the lower grade workers ( If I can call them that) including the road side good for nothing morons and the auto drivers etc find it very amusing to meddle into your life. Passing comments ( which I can understand since I know the language) is a very common thing. In a much more rough city like Delhi people are least bothered as to what you are doing.

[akshay380]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

I had stayed in Bangalore for more than 10 years and then shifted to Mumbai and now staying in Goa. Believe me my stay in Goa reminds me of Bangalore before so called development. Here in Goa also we face the local v outsider issue though not to the level of Mumbai and Goa being a tourist place makes people more broad minded in few aspects. But what I really worry about is that Goa is also turning like metros day by day and I pray it should not lose its unique identity. Let's hope.
PS: As this thread seems to have reached its purpose, requesting the mods to merge it with How do we spot bad Drivers thread.
We have daily road rage related incidents happening everywhere, it is not required to start separate threads for each one of them IMHO.

Spot on regarding what you think about Goa. Fortunately, off late people seem to be realizing that we are loosing our 'susegad'ness and with elections around the corner it's getting heated up. A lot has changed in last 5/7 years.

[acurafan]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I somehow can't agree with you on this.
Bangalore is, by far, the best city to live in. Believe me. I've just come back from a 7-day stay in Calcutta.

I guess I just have to take it with a large pinch of salt. The first time I came to Bangalore was in 1998 to join my first job and left the city in 2000 for higher studies. I must say I really liked the city. It was less polluted than most other cities with decent infrastructure. Traffic was very manageable. I lived close to Magrath road where Garuda Mall is now and it was a 15-20 min commute to Indiranagar where I used to work. Autos used to go on meter rather than ask for exorbitant fare.

After that I came to Bangalore in 2004 and started visiting every year as part of my job. I think the rudest shock I got was in 2004, when I saw the biggest changes. Roads were full of craters, Domlur Flyover was a nightmare, basic amenities like water, garbage removal became scarce. But what scared me was the amount of personal vehicles on the road that was almost fulled to the brim. The lack of driving skills of most drivers which used to be fun topic started to bite.

It got worse every subsequent year. Things that are wrong in Bangalore compared to the other metros are the following. These days I live and drive in Bangalore, so can relate it much better than my annual/bi-annual trips.

a) Poor public transport. Since you gave example of Calcutta. Let me give you a counter example. Few months back I had to go to the CBD (Camac Street) from Dumdum, which is around 17-18 Kms. If I had taken a bus it would have easily taken me couple of hours in rush hour traffic. Instead using point to point auto, Commuter train and Metro, I reached there in 35 mins. It cost me around Rs 20. The point is there are lot more options in the bigger cities to commute. The last mile problem has been effectively solved in Calcutta by the autos, who do not refuse and charge a flat fare.

b) Road conditions. The arterial roads are in better condition in Bangalore but the inner roads in Bangalore are frankly in a pathetic conditions. So you cannot really use the by-lanes as you can do it in Chennai or Calcutta to avoid traffic.

c) Lack of taxis. This is my pet peeve. You can almost never hail a taxi in Bangalore and go anywhere. Autos are not a substitute for taxis and one has to probably more in a Auto.

d) Fondness to build flyovers. Imagine this, outer ring road in most part is 6 lane along with two lane service road. Judicious use of signal timing and enforcement could have solved the rush hour gridlocks. Instead we are continuously enduring flyover constructions. Probably better solutions are metered/timed signals and police enforcing it. It would keep the arterial traffic smooth. Most western countries do that instead of building huge flyovers.

The irony in Bangalore is that more than half of the city has probably grown in last decade and yet there was no urban planning. If you compare the older part of Bangalore it looks more civilized than the newer part which is a pity.

[AltoLXI]

Basically such incidents have got nothing to do with whether one is local, whether one knows Kannada or not or for that matter any local language.

Logically there is no way the apparently drunk person know whether you are a localite or knows Kannada. So it could have happened to anybody.

In the second case, just for argument's sake, how can cops on beat know whether one was only having Chai and not indulged in any other activities? It is their responsibility to maintain law and order. Again, just for argument's sake, imagine a car stops opposite to the house where one stays, the occupant gets down, sips Chai and leaves and there are no cops around. Imagine after a few minutes the car leaves and there is an explosion. Circumstantial evidence comes into play here and the car comes into picture. Such things are happening at regular intervals across the country. How does one react? Will not cops take blame for not checking the people on road at the dead of the night? Will not heads roll in the department for the incident? So if one is in cops shoes (no pun intended), will he not make an attempt to keep the streets trouble free? Will talking in decent way with a potential trouble maker (remember one is not sure of the person on the road) work? Looking from the other side, we will realize and not feel so bad after all. I am not supporting the Oiyeees and Aiyyes but also cannot expect "Please sir" and "Excuse me" sort of decencies on the road also, atleast not in India.

About knowing Kannada - let me narrate my experiences. I am a Kannadiga from North part of Karnataka. To those who do not know, there are various dialects of Kannada. One can make out which part of Karnataka one is from based on the way Kannada is spoken.

I have travelled by autos from Majestic railway station to my house many times. The auto drivers can make out from my accent that I am not a native of Bangalore. When I deliberately speak in North Karnataka dialect, some auto drivers, not all, have tried fooling around with me about the route. Now when I switch my accent to pucca Bangalore lingo and tell the routes, even better than that they are aware of, they become cautious. Some even go further and try to convince there is a traffic jam, road under repair and give all sort of excuses. I have even doggedly insisted the routes which I want to go and have ended up in fights with them. I have even got down off their autos before reaching home. Route manipulation, not providing change, rudeness are not, I repeat, NOT, happening only with non-Kannada speaking people, but with Kannada speaking people as well. If they want their way, they will have it - no matter what. Show your knowledge of routes and language, they will be rude and abusive to be on defensive. The innovative ideas they get to fool the passengers is unparalleled. In fact, dealing with people who do not speak Kannada is better for auto drivers as the passengers will not
question them, insist on particular routes, in short, such passengers are not "headaches". I have even tried that - speak only in Hindi, go by the route they want to and ended paying more but a smiling and contended auto driver. No swearing or staring. Choose which you want.

But then all auto wallahs are not like that. Some are downright honest. But then they are minorities (by number). Engage them in conversation getting to personal level, one can understand the tough life they face, their humane side and their concerns.

The argument that knowing Kannada solves the problems is bit far fetched. In fact, one can only understand what is happening and only so much. Things will go on as usual. In fact, if the argument is valid, people from other parts of Karnataka should not be having any issues at all and all Hindi speaking people should not be having any issues at all in Delhi.
Now the word Kannada can be replaced with "local language" and the situations are the same in all other states as well. For instance, in Mumbai "Khandivali" and "Chandivali" are "confusing" to auto drivers and so are Andheri (E) and Andheri (W)

The phrase "auto driver" can be replaced with "bus driver", "conductor", "shop keeper" and the same pattern emerges.

By the newspaper reports, the cab driver whose son was shot at was Kannada speaking guy returning home with his family after a family event.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by acurafan

I guess I just have to take...

...Bangalore it looks more civilized than the newer part which is a pity.

Bangalore is simply not built for the kind of traffic it handles today, and the number of people walking around in the city. Buildings have come up, traffic has gone up. People have migrated from other parts of the country to this city. In short, the city has grown in terms of population and traffic, but not in proportion to its development. And it shows.

But it still is nowhere near as bad as some of the other cities, IMO.

Also, I think Bangalore has one of the best public-transport services today. Gloss over the fact that it was rubbish back in '02-'04. It has improved a great deal.

Let me narrate an incident that I had recently, with an autorickshaw driver.

I disembarked from the KR Puram Railway Station a week ago and hired an auto to take me home. During my ride back home, we had a close call. Right in front of the Bypanahalli Metro Terminal, just after Big Bazar, there is a traffic-junction and it had turned red. The road was relatively empty and devoid of 'traffic' sans a few cars. And our man driving the auto decided to jump the red-light, only to be confronted by a biker who was taking a right turn from the other side. He did nothing wrong. It was a green for him and a red for us.

The auto driver had to apply the brakes like our lives depended on it. He very nearly hit the guy. And guess what, the auto-driver shouted at him and yelled expletives that could get me thrown out of here, and in Kannada at that. The poor biker, probably from another State, quietly slipped away while the auto-driver continued to yell at him like it was his fault.

So with the little Kannada I knew, I struck a conversation with him and expressed my displeasure. He was taken aback, but defended his action. I was rather appalled by his behaviour. He very categorically stated that he has the right to do what he pleases. I shall translate some of what he said: "who cares if I break the law? The law is made by people who break it, so what is the point of it in the first place? These politicians sit in an assembly and watch blue-films, and then police the rest of the people in our country. they take our money and then pretend to help us."

I try and stay away from discussions that echo political overtones. But I couldn't resist here. I told him explicitly, that if we all behave like you do, the city and the country will crumble. Rules are meant to be followed and if you think you're above the law, you're no better than those politicians.

That shut him up for a little while. And then I bought him a cigarette on his request.

[sunishsamuel]

Looks road rage is going to continue unabated.

Day before yesterday on my way to office, near iblur signal spotted a maruti 800 driven by a young girl with someone looking like a middle aged politician sitting beside her. She is struggling to drive, the car keeps getting off, she tries starting, the car jumps and stops and all. Everyone including her is waiting to cross the road at iblur signal so that all can get on to the sarjapur road. This whole drama of maruti 800 is now blocking the road and bumper to bumper traffic develops in couple of seconds !

As always there is an indicab trying to tail the 800 as it moves. Looks he missed a bit, ends up tailing her at slow speed with some minor damages on both sides. I generally keep a good distance and my car is behind the indica almost 5-6 mts way.

The maruti 800 guy charges up to the indicab driver and he immediately blames me saying that the car behind me hit because of which i lost control !

I could see the 800 guy charging towards me, he was screaming saying that i am a rash driver !. I told politely that my car did not hit anyone and you may please check. He was speaking telugu so me speaking telugu pacified him i guess. He then got back to handle the indicab guy and a fight erupts.

I just could not understand few things:

- First why did the indicab blame me ? He wanted to escape but at my cost ?
- The 800 is driven by someone who does not even know to drive which is a bigger mistake. The 800 guy, whoever he may be was justifying that somehow.
- And why do indicab's end up tailing every possible vehicle ?
- And why is it that first reaction is to start fighting and gain whatever high hand whenever such incident occurs ? Looks someone who starts the fight always end up being justified as if he is the "hurt" person in the whole drama ?

[mempheS.D]

Angry Guy Smashes Car - YouTube

This video speaks volumes for what one can face in the event of an accident.

[shankar.balan]

Cochin is a city that I visited last week after a long time. I was amazed at the quality of roads, lane discipline, generally good road manners and other good practices being followed across the various segments of society in their vehicles. For example, on at least three separate occasions on different days, in different places, on my visit, the whole line of traffic slowed down, made way for others to come to the left, and themselves moved to the left, when an ambulance was coming along from behind, in order to give the ambulance right of way! I observed less honking and far better behaviour than I have seen over these last so many years in Bangalore. The Cochin road users appear to be far more civilised than those in Bangalore and we Bangaloreans can certainly learn a lot from them.

[apachelongbow]

Bangalore's problem per se, is the appeasment of the local kannadigas by local politicans/goons. That silly concept of 'mannina magane' translated as sons of the soil, has spoilt the brains of all the low income thugs who get away with murder, simply because they are the local vote banks.

Since they are not a part of the progress, it is easy for them to blame 'outsiders' for stealing their 'rightful' inheritance to work in software companies or live a good life. Every 5 years the politicans/goons reinforce this misbelief during their election campaigns.

Its not just Bangalore, similar incidents can be seen in Mumbai, where in the local goons keep thrashing north Indian aspirants who come to seek govt jobs or railway jobs, as if by pushing the other state's people out, their lazy votebanks are capable of getting work.

Its high time the educated and working class rise up, and get rid of this menace, by voting and kicking out goon/politicos from local and state bodies.