[sujithpnair]

A touching sorrow incident. R.I.P.

Also I am wondering how parents can be so frivolous about thier kids, and thinking how much struggle kids undergone when they were trapped inside car. The yard owner has little responsibility here, leaving apart one of his employees kept car unlocked - again which he/she will not have any control. I think this is purely an accident and Police has to release the yard owner with immediate effect.

[Tigger]

Lighten up folks! Two sets of patents have suffered losses of three children!

By far the worst punishment that can be accorded to a Human being is Death. As is what is normally done by society, in cases where the crime fits the description of the "Rarest of the Rare" variety. The only punishment I can think of which will outweigh the Death penalty is the punishment of having your children put to death; an absolutely abhorrent and scary concept, which I shudder at the mere thought of, while writing it here!

Some of us are affixing the blame on negligent, careless, irresponsible parents of the children, others are recognizing that the children are to carry the onus for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and doing the wrong thing, while on another person's property, still others are attacking or defending a businessman for leaving a car door opened on his own property and finally the police came in for there share of blame for allegedly trying to make a buck out of the circumstances!

What more can you say to a parent after the death of their child, and in one case, both their children!

I am sure that the yard owner has thought of tens of ways in hindsight, so that the final outcome may had not been! As, I am sure that the parents must have gone through a hundred different things that could have occurred, for this tragedy to have been averted. All involved will live out their lives faced with the reality of what could have been!

This was an accident and it wasn't really waiting to happen! It just occurred due to a series of aligned circumstances. Imagine it as the unluckiest possible day in someone's life.

I feel that we need to practice prudence in being judgmental and opinionated about something that is so very Sad and absolutely horrific. A wise man once said, "don't call a donkey a donkey"; there is something in that. Sometimes it is imperative to let something be. Hindsight is always 20-20!

Just lets pray that all involved find absolution and the little ones find eternal peace.

[fine69]

Can you die of suffocation sleeping in car?

Answer:
Technically speaking, you can not die of suffocation just by sleeping in the car. A car in not 100% air tight and oxygen keeps flowing in through the various opening in the car. These openings could include points where the brake and clutch pedals connect to the engine compartment, air vents, etc.

However, under certain conditions, you can die of suffocation in the car. One of these condition is heat buildup. When you park your car in the sun with the windows rolled up, the heat entering the car gets trapped inside causing the temperature to rise considerably.

If a car is parked in the sun with outside temperature of 90oF (32oC), the temperature inside the car could rise up to 140oF (60oC) because of the trapped heat. Normal body temperature is 98.6oF... At 107oF (42oC) we begin to lose consciousness and the body stops to function. Under these circumstances, the small openings discussed above are insufficient to prevent heat build up.

REMEMBER: It could take as little as 10 minutes for this heat buildup to occur.

Secondly, suffocation could occur if exhaust fumes build up inside the cabin of the car. As mentioned above, the car is not 100% air tight and if you have the engine running in an enclosed space like a garage, or if the fumes are somehow leaking into the cabin directly, it could lead to suffocation. A good term to search on the Internet in this regard is "CO (Carbon Monoxide) Poisoning."

Source - Wiki answers

[soonya]

Unfortunate incident.

The grief stricken parents and their neighbors of course will latch on to something to lay the blame on. One can only empathize with their grief.

People living in slums and ghettos may not have the luxury of safe play areas and working parents may not often have the wherewithal for continuous supervision of children.

It was probably wise on the part of the cops to arrest the 'person' as mobs can be mindless - the person would be safer in the police station than outside dealing with a mob.

And it is extremely difficult to fore-see all the possible things children would do given their curious nature. Children play hide and seek and lock sometimes themselves inadvertently inside cup boards also!

I appreciate Saket's advice to share with as many as we can so that it becomes common knowledge, as how to save one self. Often the low oxygen levels and panic stops a person from using his/her faculties in such situations.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by soonya

Unfortunate incident.

1. The grief stricken parents and their neighbors of course will latch on to something to lay the blame on.

2. People living in slums and ghettos may not have the luxury of safe play areas and working parents may not often have the wherewithal for continuous supervision of children.

3. It was probably wise on the part of the cops to arrest the 'person' as mobs can be mindless - the person would be safer in the police station than outside dealing with a mob.

4. Children play hide and seek and lock sometimes themselves inadvertently inside cup boards also!

You have provided another insight to the incident. All your points are valid and may also give this discussion some real world & practical perspective. That's why I have purposely 'bulleted' your quoted post.

Thanks,
Saket

[noopster]

@Tigger I really do think your advice to "lighten up" may get misconstrued especially when such sensitive and emotional issues are involved. But I also don't like what people are doing here: flaying the parents for their carelessness and holding them flatly to blame. As a parent you make choices regarding your children and sometimes the most seemingly inconsequential one results in tragedy. They have suffered and are lashing out as humans will, trying to find an explanation where none exists.

But surely the police have some discretion in this matter! What about the warehouse owner's rights? Has he really done anything to justify being arrested? Would it be asking too much if the cop in charge said it is unfortunate but there is nobody to hold responsible for such a ghastly accident?

A friend who owns a business says he is not at all surprised since this is a typical reaction from our authorities. They arrest the man who can afford to pay, never mind if he has done anything wrong. I feel bad for this country.

[shivasi]

Dear Friends,

I do not want to add to the grief however I had read the below Pulitzer winning work on what is being done in the US to ensure that kids are not left unknowingly by parents in their cars.

http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2010-Feature-Writing

Maybe this forum can be used for people to suggest/discuss preventive steps to avoid the same.

[Tigger]

Originally Posted by noopster

@Tigger I really do think your advice to "lighten up" may get misconstrued especially when such sensitive and emotional issues are involved. But I also don't like what people are doing here:..... I feel bad for this country.

Hi Noopster,

there is really nothing to misconstrue. We present our opinions on these threads amongst a membership class which is screened for maturity, knowledge and sense among other qualities.

I have three children and it's my very personal, opinion that we need to lighten up on being so freely judgmental and lashing out at different things, simply because we need to express our sheer helplessness, frustration and angst at such a needless and humungous human tragedy.

All BHPians undergo a formal screening process before being allowed to join and post. I have been through the same process and have seen the direct result, in the quality of the topics and posts on this website, simply because of the caliber of the members. I always feel that in speaking my mind here, I am addressing my peers; people with similar sensibilities and knowledge levels, who will understand what I am presenting to them!

It is an accepted practice to speak in soft voices and curb certain strong opinions at tragedies and deaths, especially when the affected parties have suffered huge personal irreplaceable losses, however much they may be at fault.

Sometimes a sombre silence, broken only with a few well chosen words, can express volumes!

I do, off course, offer unreserved apologies to those of us who have felt affronted by the words, "Lighten up folks! Two sets of parents have suffered losses of three children!".

[mooza]

A possible safety solution could be to have a manual roll down emergency option for the window on the driver's side, at least. This system could work simply by an automatic spool movement from the motor side to the manual lever side of the window whenever the ignition is switched off, or if there is a power off situation, thus enabling a manual roll down of the window.

The above feature can help both kids and adults alike while trying to exit a car in emergencies when all doors and windows have got jammed.

[MHG]

The police claims that for a large stockyard the owner only had two watchmen who only watched the front gates. How is the owner to blame for this ? If there is only one path via which the cars can be driven off (or stolen) that is the place to install guards. I doubt a car can be stolen via a small hole in the wall or that someone entering from a small hole in the wall can cause enough damage and escape all unnoticed.

OT: It must be REALLY creepy to be the guy who ends up buying the Verito wherein the tragedy occurred.

[apachelongbow]

Two paths of thinking on this thread.
1) Justified anger at how the issue was miss managed. What is the objective in arresting the stockyard owner? Is it required that he childproof his yard? Is yard an area where children can play unsupervised? If parents cant take care of their children, the one they have bought into this world, how can they expect strangers to do so? Is the police justified in arresting the richest one for the sake of extracting bribes? How different is the police from a roadside goonda?

2) Feeling sorry for the loss of little lives, who were not given a chance to grow up and experience the world. Empathy for the poor parents who lost young children in a senseless tragedy, one that could be avoided had parents known the whereabouts of their child.

Both sets of opinions are very valid, and yes some members choose to support one over the other. But we have to realise if we call ourselves a civilized society, then arresting an innocent man for the sins of the other is not justified. At the same time, if regulations are passed regarding supervision of children, maybe making more parks/play areas where children can play safe, ensuring that potentially dangerous areas are well fenced restricted, well lit etc, this would help in preventing further tragedies.

[wheeledsoul]

Yet again..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/40192419.cms

The article says all the doors shut accidentally. Now, how is that possible? Only if the key was in place and battery turned on, the children might have accidentally hit the central locking button, but considering that the car was left abandoned in the yard, it would be highly impossible.

[raghu.t.k]

Originally Posted by wheeledsoul

Yet again..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/40192419.cms

The article says all the doors shut accidentally. Now, how is that possible? Only if the key was in place and battery turned on, the children might have accidentally hit the central locking button, but considering that the car was left abandoned in the yard, it would be highly impossible.

Very true, not sure how they got locked unless it was only one door that was left unlocked, and the kids locked it from inside!! I think, its high time that the parents are made accountable for this. Irrespective of the socio-economical background the simple ground rule is dont touch anything that does not belong to you

The fact that we are not supposed to touch / play with other's property is something that is being forgotten at all levels of social strata. When the parents are asked, they simply "explain" that "he is only a small kid"....

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by raghu.t.k

Very true, not sure how they got locked unless it was only one door that was left unlocked, and the kids locked it from inside!! I think, its high time that the parents are made accountable for this. Irrespective of the socio-economical background the simple ground rule is dont touch anything that does not belong to you

The fact that we are not supposed to touch / play with other's property is something that is being forgotten at all levels of social strata. When the parents are asked, they simply "explain" that "he is only a small kid"....

Just one word. Intrusion. There is no concept of personal space in our country. We jump queues, talk loudly over mobile breathing down each others' necks, step on one another's toes, push, jostle, shove. We have no regard for others' property. Kids run onto streets without looking and if you so much as even tell the kid not to do that in his own interest, his parents will mob you and say, "how dare you talk to my son?" And we never accept our fault gracefully. The ones who cause accidents argue as strongly as the victim. They will blame everyone else and everything else under the sun but themselves. Till day, I have not seen a singie person accept his fault and say sorry. In other words, no exchange of pleasantries, no nice words to each oher. Just cursing and bickering.

[anjan_c2007]

Sad to read about the incident. In the heat of the moment, the car dealer has been made the scapegoat for the incident. This is an old, natural and a proven way in which the ire/ anger is vented in such cases, to assuage the tragic horror, sadness, agony caused to the families who lost the kids.

If we do a proper introspection, we can conclude that the parents are equally at fault. A kid of that age cannot have any judgement in such cases and it was sheer juvenile temptation to get inside a car with ease and have the whale of a time. It had a very tragic end.

The parents (the mothers in this case) were busy with their domestic affairs and had failed to keep track of their young ones' movements. The tender kids at such an age need to be constantly monitored as to where they are and what they are doing? In the earlier days, parents used to have four or more children, but a majority of them were extra careful in such cases, when kids would move in the outdoors to play. The prying eyes of the parents would watch their children's activities, either actively or passively. Besides their teachings would also imbibe values in kids. Not that these values are not taught anymore today, but sadly both the kids and parents are victims of the times.

As regards the number of kids parents have one, two or rarely three kids,these days but give them all the liberty to do what they like in many cases. Parents are perhaps busier with either their daily chores or maybe hobbies or with the idiot box.

Like Pink Floyd (actually the lyricist wrote and their song said ) said "teachers leave their kids alone" in 1980, not only the teachers but even the parents leave their kids alone now a days. Sad but true and the truth is bitter.