Originally Posted by JoseVijay

I had been to L.B Nagar yesterday and while coming back had a look at the above mentioned place/road. I had no words to say when I saw the place.

The place/road was not a smooth one. It was a rough road with potholes here and there. One question flashed my mind: How could anyone drive on this road in a rash manner?
gemi_kk, what is the latest update?

Sir, As said, i was in a traffic jam. Also, ignore the area prior the place described. it is full of pot holes. Only consider the area, which i have said.

I do not know, at what time you went through this place. please run through it in the morning hours to see the amount of traffic jam. Also, i never entered 100% into this road as said earlier. I partially entered.

Have a look at Malakpet to Koti road, where nice road is laid with Tar. I hope this road is generations ahead than the malakpet tar road. If entering this road is considered as rash driving, then who drives on malakpet road should be fined for off-roading on road.

Latest status: Went to Traffic PS. Sirji is on leave. No one is ready to share his phone number even on request. Also, i cant start from office early because of business reasons. Just thinking as of now on what to do next.

Attaching the exact image of the road and traffic jam, i am talking of.

This is a 4+/5 lane road on each side. compressed to hardly two lane because of metro(Left two lanes and one right lane are occupied here by metro construction). After the station above the ground, the lane diverges to 5 lane again. So, am i supposed to use only the two lanes? For whom the rest 3 lanes are for? I partially entered the right lane. :( . Still am i wrong?

[JoseVijay]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

I do not know, at what time you went through this place. please run through it in the morning hours to see the amount of traffic jam.

I crossed this place at 9.30 P.M on Sunday. Since traffic was very less at that time, I had enough time to observe the place. I am also aware of the regular traffic jams this place offers.

[falconion]

Originally Posted by JoseVijay

I crossed this place at 9.30 P.M on Sunday. Since traffic was very less at that time, I had enough time to observe the place. I am also aware of the regular traffic jams this place offers.

Where in Hyderabad is there NOT a traffic jam these days. A 10 km route can take 1 hour minimum during rush hour, which is 60-75% of the day.

[ortho_surgeon]

The traffic cops just tried a fast one on you. When you confronted him, it hurt his ego, so all this mess.

The system in our country is corrupt. Period.

Gemi I will give you an example. This happened with me in December 2013.

I was returning back from Bombay. I usually leave pretty early by 3 am. But got stuck up in the hospital there, and so had to leave by 11am. I had all documents with me, including fuel bills. I was driving a KA registered car. At Sion, a cop stopped me. First he said I have to pay 1000, because I was driving another state vehicle, without paying MH state road tax.

The traffic cop said that I cannot drive an outside side for more than 5 days in Mumbai. I was returning back after a week. I told him that the RTO rules on internet clearly say that you can drive an outside vehicle anywhere in Maharashtra for a month without paying taxes. This hit his ego badly.

I showed him all documents, including the PUC, then he said I had done lane cutting. I had to pay Rs 300 as fine. I argued that I did not break any traffic rules. Then he demanded my Driving license.

Since, I was returning back to Kerala, I had no option but to part with Rs 300.

I tried lodging a complaint with the Mumbai traffic police via their internet site, but it was useless.

[aqualeo2040]

A question to the lawyers in the forum:

If the Police officer/constable tries to pull a fast one like this, and we refused to pay the fine, they are supposed to confiscate the license, give us a receipt and present the case before the magistrate.

Now, any court will ask for proof or evidence.
Also, I have been told by Traffic Cops that they cannot bear witness to any case they present i.e. they cannot be the sole witnesses for any accident and there has to be a 3rd party(common man) witness to the event.
In such case, How can the Police prove the validity of the challan?

i.e. How can the police prove that Gemi_KK was indeed driving rashly or ortho_surgeon was cutting lanes without proper indication?

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by aqualeo2040

A question to the lawyers in the forum:

If the Police officer/constable tries to pull a fast one like this, and we refused to pay the fine, they are supposed to confiscate the license, give us a receipt and present the case before the magistrate.

Now, any court will ask for proof or evidence.
Also, I have been told by Traffic Cops that they cannot bear witness to any case they present i.e. they cannot be the sole witnesses for any accident and there has to be a 3rd party(common man) witness to the event.
In such case, How can the Police prove the validity of the challan?

i.e. How can the police prove that Gemi_KK was indeed driving rashly or ortho_surgeon was cutting lanes without proper indication?

I am in a similar position right now for a speeding challan when I was surely within limits according to my speedo. I asked around and you have to file a protest petition against the erring policeman which is like fighting a criminal case. It's not worth the hassle involved as the challan is in another city 200 kms from my place. Already wasted two days in the court as the paperwork had not reached the courts on the given day. In hindsight I would have been better off if I had taken a hit to my ego and paid 1k on the spot. Its just the nature of things.

Originally Posted by aqualeo2040

A question to the lawyers in the forum:

Now, any court will ask for proof or evidence.
Also, I have been told by Traffic Cops that they cannot bear witness to any case they present i.e. they cannot be the sole witnesses for any accident and there has to be a 3rd party(common man) witness to the event.
In such case, How can the Police prove the validity of the challan?

Even i had the same question. but couldn't find any answer to this.

Also, as per the law, there has to be a third party witness. So can i ask my friend (who isn't the actual witness) to come to court and say that i haven't violated any rules? Is it acceptable as per Law?

[JoseVijay]

Originally Posted by aqualeo2040

A question to the lawyers in the forum:

If the Police officer/constable tries to pull a fast one like this, and we refused to pay the fine, they are supposed to confiscate the license, give us a receipt and present the case before the magistrate.

Now, any court will ask for proof or evidence.
Also, I have been told by Traffic Cops that they cannot bear witness to any case they present i.e. they cannot be the sole witnesses for any accident and there has to be a 3rd party(common man) witness to the event.
In such case, How can the Police prove the validity of the challan?

i.e. How can the police prove that Gemi_KK was indeed driving rashly or ortho_surgeon was cutting lanes without proper indication?

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Even i had the same question. but couldn't find any answer to this.

Also, as per the law, there has to be a third party witness. So can i ask my friend (who isn't the actual witness) to come to court and say that i haven't violated any rules? Is it acceptable as per Law?

Nice questions raised. I doubt if most of these incidents even reach a court. Yes. Drunken driving is a punishable offence under Indian Judicial system, but not lane cutting or traffic signal voilation or any other offence.

Another observation I would like to make. Why would anyone shell out a few thousands of rupees in employing a lawyer than parting with a few hundreds as a fine? Talking about evidence, I have seen many traffic constables with handy cams recording the behaviour of traffic offenders when they were caught.

[JoseVijay]

Sorry for the back to back posts. Request mods to merge if possible.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Latest status: Went to Traffic PS. Sirji is on leave. No one is ready to share his phone number even on request. Also, i cant start from office early because of business reasons. Just thinking as of now on what to do next.

What is the latest update on the issue? Did you get back all the original documents?

Originally Posted by JoseVijay

Sorry for the back to back posts. Request mods to merge if possible.

What is the latest update on the issue? Did you get back all the original documents?

Documents are with them. Receipt is with me. Planned to go today. But no hopes that the officials will be in office, as yesterday being Ganesh Chturdi. Waiting. Planning to bunk a day in the coming week and visit them.

[aqualeo2040]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Documents are with them. Receipt is with me. Planned to go today. But no hopes that the officials will be in office, as yesterday being Ganesh Chturdi. Waiting. Planning to bunk a day in the coming week and visit them.

Hi Gemi,

Have you sought any legal counsel yet?
Once you have the documents, I think you should file a RTI for this one. It would help getting clarity on the Police operations.

Alternatively, I am close to Mr Abhishek Goenka (a gentleman who most bhpians might not approve of since he raised the RTI on the window tints), and I can ask him to raise a RTI on this. Police attrocity has to end and they cant just harass hapless citizen with their understanding/interpretation of a law.

Originally Posted by aqualeo2040

Hi Gemi,

Have you sought any legal counsel yet?
Once you have the documents, I think you should file a RTI for this one. It would help getting clarity on the Police operations.

Alternatively, I am close to Mr Abhishek Goenka (a gentleman who most bhpians might not approve of since he raised the RTI on the window tints), and I can ask him to raise a RTI on this. Police attrocity has to end and they cant just harass hapless citizen with their understanding/interpretation of a law.

I would be interested to raise an RTI. Also, i am more interested in taking it to court seeking judgement. But the biggest problem is pulling out time to do all these.

[ameyawaghmare]

This is really really bad. Let us keep the corruption, policemen, rash drivers all aside. But, if we were to think of it from a systemic point of view (that the traffic authority is supposed to think), was there any board confirming not to use any particular dust lane?? If no, it is a clear case that road is under construction or with no plans for construction and can be navigated by motorists.

If the judicial system wants proof, why we do not have cameras along all stretches of roads or at least intersections? Policemen should not even stand at places where there is no camera or any evidence backing their claims.

Rash driving/lane cutting is subjective, are there any clearly laid down rules or objective points for this at pan-India level?!? Or do they change with every city and state!

The experience that ortho_surgeon had, i am sure we all have gone through this. Traffic police clearly lie to us on anything possible. When the website, fine for driving without licence is 300/-, they will ask for 1000/- and then start negotiating on getting freed without receipt.

End of day, we may be right but don't have time for all these hassles of court, etc. That isn't going to change things, only help us show the police wrong. It is better to pay 300/- or something after negotiations and get away than to argue with people who are going to remain same for ever (again, a systemic issue) in my view.

BTW, dirt road right there which is open for public is also a huge safety risk. But, safety is last on priority for authorities even while designing new roads or projects!

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by ortho_surgeon

Then he demanded my Driving license.

Since, I was returning back to Kerala, I had no option but to part with Rs 300.

What happens in situations like these is, he takes the license and goes away/puts in his pocket and then the bargaining starts.

For this reason, I always try to show duplicate DL.

Originally Posted by ameyawaghmare

It is better to pay 300/- or something after negotiations and get away than to argue with people who are going to remain same for ever (again, a systemic issue) in my view.

Let me give you my weird example. Sometimes in March/April this year, I was at Siliguri and wanted to take a right at the busiest crossing. There was a traffic cop stationed and he signaled me to drive over. Next moment, he came in front of the car and started confronting me for breaking signal. Can you even imagine this?

Luckily, in the passenger seat with me, I had a fleet operator who has over 50 trucks plying between Siliguri - Purnia. He couldn't resist and shot back. And then we created a scene.

Now, can you imagine? A cop waives you to go ahead and confronts you?

He was ready to fine, but we were adamant to get a receipt and then ask for his name & designation. He started chickening out then.