[Hayek]

Interesting post. I must say the problem in India arises because of the ineffective third party liability management system of our auto insurance companies. In this case, you were clearly at fault. In any other country, you would have provided your insurance details to the other car owners, and your insurance company would have borne the costs for damage to all three vehicles. You would have faced higher insurance costs next year, but the other two would have not had to pay anything since they were not at fault. The insurance deductible would have been borne by you. By the way, NCB is not a "marketing gimmick" - it is a simplistic method of rewarding people who represent lower insurable risks. In most parts of the world, insurance companies use much more sophisticated processes for the same - such as the age of the designated driver (young males pay more), the type of car (Red sports cars pay more) and of course the driver's track record, both in terms of accidents and points on the license. It's the same as the health check up you need for life insurance.

It's only in India that people who are not at fault have to pay for repairing their cars from their "own damage" portion of their policies and hence end up losing their no claim bonuses. This has happened to me as well - a jeep rammed into my Getz when I was waiting at a signal. Despite my registering an FIR, no action was taken against the jeep driver, and I had to pay both the deductible and lose my NCB.

You were clearly more decent than the average Indian as you paid the deductible - legally, there is nothing the others could have done if you had refused to pay the same. In fact you paid a bribe unnecessarily - an FIR against you for causing the accident would have been on a NC charge with only a minimal fine as the possible penalty. (typically, even a court hearing can be settled by paying an official fine of just Rs. 1000, if I remember right)

By the way, the Alto guy was obviously tail gating too - if he had maintained an adequate gap, even your ramming into him would not have caused him to crash into the Swift.

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by StepUP!

The accident happened few months back. Suddenly my friend showed me a big hoarding on the beneath highway and I turned my neck, my eyes went off the road ahead. I rammed into an Alto. I started my warning lights and pulled over while Figo's engine was still running. To my surprise I had damaged two cars. The Alto in front had rammed into the Dzire ahead of it.

I was truing to tell them, we all have insurances, you claim your car's insurance towards damages and I will pay the part which you have to pay through your pocket. After heated arguments they agreed to claim the damages in their insurance. But again demanded I have to pay towards their NCB also! This was it. I lost my cool and said now call Police only. I was in no mood to discuss with these morons.

Lessons learnt:

1. No matter what, don't take eyes off the road even for a second particularly on a crowded road or when you are doing high speeds.
2. Don't be nice to not so nice people. Give them the treatment they deserve.
3. Always Wear seat belts and never buy a Maruti car! (no offense meant)
4. keep the cool. You can save on lot of things and hassle in future.
5. Never be intimidated by Police or whatsoever if you are not at fault

Well, Firstly it's highly derogatory to address people affected from your mistake with derogatory terminology. The 1st rule of safe driving is staying alert irrespective of "back-seat driving" (read distraction) done by co-passengers. I am not preaching you but suggesting you and it's good that you appear to have learnt from your mistake.

Secondly, NCB or no NCB your persuasion for them claiming their insurance for your mistake is not right in my individual opinion. I hope you know that apart from loosing out on NCB, every time one claims the insurance of damage the premium amount goes up for the next renewal. You should thank your stars that those people settled for the margin amount only and did not take it further. Who is responsible for the increase in their renewal amount?

Coming to your list of lessons!

1) Irrespective of crowded or deserted road, one should not be distracted. Deserted stretch are more dangerous than crowded ones. On a deserted road you can't anticipate what may suddenly appear in front of you and from which direction it may come out. Secondly, Kindly don't mention about high speeds since its not advisable to drive at high speed under any circumstance and as you are team-bhpian please note Team Bhp advocates safe driving!

2) Your perception is at fault here. When you are at fault and all of a sudden because of your mistake the affected person is venting out his agony you call/ refer them as 'not good'. This is not right.

3) Seat belts are to be worn irrespective of whether you own a Maruti or a Maserati. Comparatively Maruti is light weight in front of Ford so that does not mean its a bad vehicle. Keep aside the offence, You should start keeping braking distance from now on.

4) Keeping cool means not loosing cool under duress. But you eventually lost it and ended up in an argument.

5) Totally not agreed, respect them if they are trying to help you. You can stand on your point only when you feel they are biased/ unreasonable. Please don't generalize the concept.

Do give thought to the above suggested points and drive safe from now on.

Thanks

[StepUP!]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

Seeing the deeply insightful and extremely humble interpretation of the entire episode, I don't think I can handle the truth! So please educate me!

Better not make fun of or ridicule my post. I expect to be treated with respect and dignity here.

Originally Posted by Hayek

You were clearly more decent than the average Indian as you paid the deductible - legally, there is nothing the others could have done if you had refused to pay the same. In fact you paid a bribe unnecessarily - an FIR against you for causing the accident would have been on a NC charge with only a minimal fine as the possible penalty. (typically, even a court hearing can be settled by paying an official fine of just Rs. 1000, if I remember right)

Thank you! Even I am unaware of court proceedings and fines. But yes fines are very negligible and we see people walking out on bail even if they are involved in accidents with casualitities within few hours.

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Thanks!

[ishlinea7260]

This reminds me of my accident which happened sometime in 2012.

I was driving my 2 day old Skoda Laura to my college and was patiently waiting at a crossing along with other traffic and had stopped a reasonable distance from the Alto which was in front of me.

As soon as I am about to come to a halt I have this habit of checking my IRVM for any traffic behind me.And soon enough another new (read temp registered) Swift stops behind me maintaining a sufficient gap from my car.

What happens next was unprecedented I was still looking at the IRVM and I see the Swift driver while sitting in the car literally jumps from his seat and I prepare myself for the worst by grabbing the steering wheel as much as I could.

I felt a whiplash and my car lurched forward and hit the Alto in front!

I was belted up so was not thrown from my seat like the Swit guy was.

After the anxious few moments when I just recuperated what happened I switched on the hazard lights and came out of the car.Locked it and went to see what actually caused the accident.

A Chevrolet Spark driven by a middle aged lady was bleeding (the car not the lady ) All the engine fluids on the road , bumper, headlights, bonnet, grille foglights , front fenders ,front doors , windscreen everything in tatters!

What happened exactly even she didnt know , but her guess(?) was she might have pressed the gas pedal instead of the brake which was apparently an honest mistake and could happen and does happen to everyone( according to her )

Fortunately she was belted up so apart from the usual few early anxious moments after the accident she was alright.

The swift had a broken bumper , severly dented rear hatch and had lost both taillights , rear quarter panels damaged , and I from what I gathered slighty bent chassis. And in the front both headlamps, were gone ,bumper grille both gone, bonnet dented and both no: plated were in pieces.

Coming to my car rear parking sensor went in , rear bumper was damaged,
rear hatch was damaged and in the front bumper was slightly damaged and both the no: plates were in a couple of pieces.

The alto guy had a slightly bent bumper and the hatch door.

Since the Alto was least damaged the driver got down surveyed his car and met us and said since he is already late for his meeting and the car not that damaged he wants to leave!

Here we three were discussing our insurance details and found out all the cars had zero Dep. policy.
After a quick call to our insurance providers and intimating them about the accident we exchanged contact details and went back to our respective destinations.
(Except for the Chevy lady of course) She had called up a relative to pick her up.

My friends later on said to me that I should have demanded money from her and that I will be paying extra on my insurance premiums next year for no fault of mine.
But I told them what I tell everybody , that's what insurances are for!

I thank my stars that no one was injured and also that my car suffered comparatively less damage , it could have been written off that day for all I know!

Though we had exchanged details but none of us ever heard from each other and I had actually forgotten about the incident until today when I read this thread the chain reaction accident brought back some not so good memories.

[drmohitg]

Sorry but I do not understand the whole hoopla going on here. Is everyone angry because the OP called the other two drivers involved morons and cheats or that he refused to pay up there NCB costs? If its the first then I agree. If its the second then I certainly do not. We all buy 3rd party insurance for the simple reason that in such instances regardless of the mistake, the insurance company takes care of the other person's damage. Where is it written in the law that one has to pay up the difference and NCB and etc etc. If the other driver is not keen on taking a claim under his insurance then he is free to deal with my insurance company. In no circumstances am I going to pay for his NCB loss etc even if its my mistake. I pay a huge premium to the insurance company to cover me up for such mistakes.

And what is this thing going on about the other drivers being very reasonable in not taking this up further. They cant claim for any damage other than seek the OP's third party insurance even if they go via the FIR route.

[ani_meher]

But drmohitg, OP specifically didn't want them to claim anything from HIS insurance. He wanted them to use their own insurance. So should they just grin and bear the brunt of loss of NCB and addition of an accident in vehicle history?

OP, I am not a judge and this is not a court, so I will stop judging you. I don't like your actions and your attitude, but since you are happy with the outcome and your thoughts, I will leave it at that. No more comments directed personally to you.

BUT, I will contribute on the discussion of this situation. I would love to hear mods' opinion about this. I think their replies will define the 'team-bhp' core, so to speak.

EDIT: One important update is missing, OP.

Originally Posted by StepUP!

I was going to drop my friend at Pune station. We were on the Wakad bridge; chatting usual stuff.

Did your friend finally make it to the station in time, after all this tension?!

[Hrishi_111]

Originally Posted by ishlinea7260

But I told them what I tell everybody , that's what insurances are for!

.

Exactly what is in my mind !

Even though majority of them are due to human errors, accidents are bound to happen

And we all insure our vehicles to seek a helping hand from insurance companies towards the repair cost/compensation.

We have to understand that 'No Claim Bonus' is not an integrated part of the insurance policy, rather a feature of it.

IMO, if you have insurance, you should claim for it irrespective of whoever is responsible for the accident. Finding out whose fault it is and asking him/her to pay for 'NCB' is an unethical practice.

In aftermath of any accident nowadays, people seem to be taking advantage of the situation that the person who is suspected to be fault would never want to go to lodge an FIR and afraid of getting involved with legal system.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

But drmohitg, OP specifically didn't want them to claim anything from HIS insurance. He wanted them to use their own insurance. So should they just grin and bear the brunt of loss of NCB and addition of an accident in vehicle history?

No the OP cannot decide whether he would let the other parties claim from his insurance or not. If he says no and the other party decides to take this forward then go via the FIR route where the OP would be forced to comply. Covering the other person's NCB loss + claim differential + higher premium amount from next year onwards etc is not at all the OP's responsibility. He may choose to cover them out of goodwill but is not legally bound to do so. And yes I understand that going to courts and claiming 3rd party insurance is a tedious task but the law is the law.

[ani_meher]

^^^OK, so the choice lies with the victim, rather than the responsible party, whether to claim his third party insurance and thus involve FIR, Police and courts, or to use their own insurance and lose up NCB. Got it.

[StepUP!]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Sorry but I do not understand the whole hoopla going on here. Is everyone angry because the OP called the other two drivers involved morons and cheats or that he refused to pay up there NCB costs? If its the first then I agree. If its the second then I certainly do not. We all buy 3rd party insurance for the simple reason that in such instances regardless of the mistake, the insurance company takes care of the other person's damage. Where is it written in the law that one has to pay up the difference and NCB and etc etc. If the other driver is not keen on taking a claim under his insurance then he is free to deal with my insurance company. In no circumstances am I going to pay for his NCB loss etc even if its my mistake. I pay a huge premium to the insurance company to cover me up for such mistakes.

And what is this thing going on about the other drivers being very reasonable in not taking this up further. They cant claim for any damage other than seek the OP's third party insurance even if they go via the FIR route.

Thank you very much for reciprocating my thoughts! I feel irrespective of who's mistake, no one is entitled to ask for NCB. That is what for insurances are meant. I am surprised to see people saying think about their loss when they resell, mental agony, day wasted etc. Then I should compensate them for the whole life, arrange vehicle for them till their vehicle is repaired. And every time vehicle is sold I should keep on giving money.

Originally Posted by ani_meher

But drmohitg, OP specifically didn't want them to claim anything from HIS insurance. He wanted them to use their own insurance. So should they just grin and bear the brunt of loss of NCB and addition of an accident in vehicle history?

OP, I am not a judge and this is not a court, so I will stop judging you. I don't like your actions and your attitude, but since you are happy with the outcome and your thoughts, I will leave it at that. No more comments directed personally to you.

BUT, I will contribute on the discussion of this situation. I would love to hear mods' opinion about this. I think their replies will define the 'team-bhp' core, so to speak.

EDIT: One important update is missing, OP.



Did your friend finally make it to the station in time, after all this tension?!

No one is asking you not to contribute. But "contributing" and making fun of, ridicule a post, passing personal comments are far different.

Ok you have got so touchy about me not asking them to claim third party from my insurance.
Do you even know the procedure? Indeed it would have been much wise decision financially for me.

I claim my insurance. They file FIR. Police confiscates all cars till RTO releases them. Now till court decides what is the actual amount of compensation, they have to shell out Rs 120000 for Alto and Rs 40000 for Dzire from their pocket to repair them, forget about NCB.
I accept my fault in court and pay maximum Rs 5000 fine and walk away.
They wait till court settles the case and decides as per the law what is the compensation which anyways would be way less than actual bills.
At the end what do they get? Peanuts for their damages, court proceedings, time wastage, shell out lakhs to repair the car, NCB? Court says.. What's that?

So do you think all this is worth for not getting NCB of 2000-3000? If you think so, fine!

Instead I shelled out Rs 50000 to repair all cars. I am a fool then

Originally Posted by drmohitg

No the OP cannot decide whether he would let the other parties claim from his insurance or not. If he says no and the other party decides to take this forward then go via the FIR route where the OP would be forced to comply. Covering the other person's NCB loss + claim differential + higher premium amount from next year onwards etc is not at all the OP's responsibility. He may choose to cover them out of goodwill but is not legally bound to do so. And yes I understand that going to courts and claiming 3rd party insurance is a tedious task but the law is the law.

Bang on Dr Mohit

[noopster]

Mod Note: Please be civil in your interactions with fellow members and do not indulge in ridicule, sarcasm and personal attacks. Any posts that do not adhere to posting guidelines will be summarily deleted.

[mayankk]

StepUp, noone here is trying to prosecute you, first off.
All that we're trying to convey here is that Third party is painful to the extent that people would rather have teeth pulled. Since that cannot be done, we have developed our own system of F&F settlement on the spot. I have not seen this system anywhere else in the world(in what I have seen of it.disclaimer).

Agreed the alto was lying to you, and didnt have NCB, but as a standard, he was justified in asking for losses coming to him by way of your hitting his car, like the repairs, or if not that, then the NCB loss if you came to an off the papers arrangement of him using his insurance. Its just a tactic, also unofficially developed, to cover the exorbitant repair cost that even any minor minor scratch nowadays entails, and nothing more than what any of us has ever done.

Its just that here there are two sides, one is more wrong than the other, and that happened to be you.

Just have a good stay here, and if some of the posts offended, I'm sure noone meant any, and youll take none.
Rest I am sure the mods have already taken of.

[::CMS::]

I feel you are lucky that the other two were not adamant and helped you by absorbing their loss.

[swiftnfurious]

Ohh My Goodness! According to the numerous posts;

Unfair practices:

• Calling someone moron = derogatory. Someone even says you can't abuse "family members"!
• Not providing the NCB amount for those two souls (one of them never had it in the first place!)

Fair practices:

• The Alto guy who lied about having NCB & demanding cash
• The guy who accepted his mistake being cornered in the police station & pressured for paying up additional!

Where is this thread going?!

Yes, it definitely was his mistake; taking the eyes off the road.

For me, StepUp gets the point for owning up the mistake and also being ready to pay for the damages. He also had the courtesy to drop the victims to their home (He didn't have it do it).

How long would someone pay for the NCB damages; it's NOT a one time loss. If the guy had a 50% NCB it means that he has to pay additional for the next 5 years till he gets back the 50% NCB. Yes, it's unfortunate it happened and one of those guys lost his NCB, but then insurance is for those "unfortunate" instances called "accidents". I would be frowning if I were one of those (especially with the NCB), but then would I have a choice?

And for those who are supporting NCB loss of 50% - How much difference does it make in insurance amount on a car more than 5 years old (without NCB)? Or the NCB on a less than 3 year old (20-30% NCB)? Yes, it would make a big difference at the time of transferring the NCB to a new car. Otherwise - Not much if you ask me.

Edit:: Between, I have gone thru a similar instance where I was a victim for NO mistake of mine. But there was NOT much to do where the other party owned up the mistake and paid for my coverage too. I was also given the NCB loss.

Edit 2:: @StepUp, I read a post of yours asking why do you need to pay the damages for the Dzire guy when the alto guy was the one who hit the Dzire. You pay for it because you caused the Alto guy to hit the Dzire. In short, it was a chain reaction. As a fair policy you owned the damage.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Unfair practices:

• Calling someone moron = derogatory. Someone even says you can't abuse "family members"!
• Not providing the NCB amount for those two souls (one of them never had it in the first place!)

Fair practices:

• The Alto guy who lied about having NCB & demanding cash
• The guy who accepted his mistake being cornered in the police station & pressured for paying up additional!

Where is this thread going?!

I think it was the tone of the first post that put off many guys here. But in an accident tempers are always frayed. Good to know that StepUp has put this behind and moved on. Hopefully more lessons learnt than the 4 points originally posted

For me the learning is that it is always better to settle it outside the view of the authorities instead of going by the law.

- Ideally the whole thing should be taken care of by the insurance guys, but it will not happen that way
- Ideally, if I am the victim, I should not lose my NCB, but it will not happen that way

So a typical Indian road-side bargaining is the only solution. No right or wrong here. So, I think I should thank all those who posted here for bringing clarity on that issue