[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

I understand your point of wearing seat belts , but would be great if you can explain the great insight you got from this experience on not buying a MUL car ?

I guess he's talking about the thinner body frame of MUL car that caused the more visible damage. Even if it is too much of a generalization, it's just his opinion; everybody's entitled to one.

I don't believe it needs to be made that important a discussion point

[bblost]

What is the procedure if the OP had decided to get his third party insurance to cover all the expenses?

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

In Japan, and most other developed countries, if there is a fender-bender, the parties involved step out of their vehicles, exchange business-cards and be on their way.

I agree on this part with you Suhaas, I would like to share a serial rear ending accident involving my Paa's Esteem in October 2008. It was at Maharani Bagh (near DND Flyway) where a Black Alto which was ahead of me took to immediate braking to avoid collision with a White Swift as this Swift braked to avoid collision with a Wagon R which in turn rear ended a Tempo. The Tempo was not at fault since he avoided being run over by a Blue Line bus at that time.

Due to sudden braking of Alto, I managed to steer my car to left side as I was driving in the right most lane i.e next to the divider. But I could not steer it properly and banged the Alto from rear left due which the Alto banged the Swift and Swift crashed into Wagon R making it almost enter into the Tempo from behind.

When this happened, for about 5 minutes I was shaken and asked my driver if he was ok. Then the Alto guy came out and so did the Swift guy. The guy in the Swift was really shaken himself so I did not ask for anything. But, this Alto guy was a gem of a person. I still remember his exact words he spoke to me "Aap jitna bacha sakte thay, aapne kara aur mae jitna kar paya woh maine kiya" (You did your best to save and I did my best). He provided me with his business card and said if you need any help just ring me up and then we all left without calling of Police etc.

The damage of my car was 43000/- at that time which included Hood, Headlamp, AC compressor and fan and Radiator apart from other minor nuts and bolts. After taking insurance I paid 11000/-.

Now, If I had created a scene out there or any other affected party would have created a scene then no resolution would have reached. The Alto gentleman was kind enough and so I decided not to ask/ claim any damages.

All in all what matters is how you deal a particular situation.

Thanks

[arunu]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

In Japan, and most other developed countries, if there is a fender-bender, the parties involved step out of their vehicles, exchange business-cards and be on their way. Because people realise that getting into a verbal altercation on the road is probably going to cost them more than what it would to get the car repaired in the first place.

I have been in Oman for the past 6 years and whenever an accident happens, first thing people do is to get out of the car and rush to the other vehical involved to check whether the occupants are OK. Both affected parties get out of their cars, greet each other, agree whose mistake it is, exchange mobile numbers for raising the insurance claims of the person responsible and move on. Even in case of disputes and disagreements, police is called to resolve the issue, but there is no heated arguments.
Ofcourse all this happens only incase of Non fatal or Non injury cases, but still people are very cordial.

You would actually feel a little puzzled when you see such incidents for the first time and wonder why and how people are so cool after coming out of an accident.

[Kumar R]

Originally Posted by sindabad.sailor

ALso I read the policy wordings quite carefully. The third party property damage liability is limited at 6000 Rs anyways.

Rs. 6,000 is the floor limit for third party damage set by law for the mandatory insurance -- meaning you must buy a policy providing for at least Rs 6,000 cover for third party claims for damaged property (that's why any insurance policy sold today will provide for at least this 6k cover).

Most insurers permit this cover to be increased by slightly increasing the premium. My third party limit on liability for damage to property of others is Rs 7,50,000.

Originally Posted by bblost

What is the procedure if the OP had decided to get his third party insurance to cover all the expenses?

It's a tedious process and poorly explained by insurers. The affected party may file a claim but the OP has to also submit a claim form including copies of the usual documents (RC, etc.). An FIR is a must and since the OP will have no interest in doing this (might well be adverse against him) the affected party has to file the FIR before the claim can be made and and himself pursue the matter in a motor vehicles claims tribunal. Insurance companies do not reveal this but they do nothing on a claim till they are certain the court will award a judgment against the guilty driver (i.e. their policyholder). Ten years back our neighbour was told to get a copy of the police chargesheet against the driver/owner of a taxi who bashed his parked car in the middle of the night in order to file a claim. Left to itself the process can take 4-5 years. With some follow-up it can take 1-3 years depending on how cooperative the cops (and insurer) are.

The entire business model of third party motor insurance business in India is somewhat suspect. It's essentially a zero-sum game because to successfully claim it pretty much means a court judgment against the bad driver along with the interim headaches (cops might and will seize his car, impound his license perhaps, etc.) -- there's no middle path for the guilty driver to accept liability but not suffer legal censure -- meaning no incentive to cooperate. Plus there's the system apathy and time delays. Consequently hardly anyone ever bothers to make such claims and we fall back on own damage policies (where they exist).

I conjecture that the premium for such 3rd party cover does not reflect the risk of a claim payout and so insurance companies are hell-bent on making the process as hard and as distasteful as possible to avoid losing money. Instead if they just increase the premium, they could ease up the claims procedure, solve a huge amount of road rage in the process, make some more money (perhaps) and as a bonus the cost is borne by the guilty driver next year in his own higher premium.

I suppose that's why the premium paid is so low. In my case, the premium for an IDV of Rs 3,50,000 is about Rs 10,000 (own damage) (or 2.8 % of insured sum) but for a third party liability of Rs 7,50,000, the premium is a measly Rs 1,075 (a miniscule 0.1%).

[StepUP!]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

StepUp, I will take your side for a change. I remember reading on team bhp itself, that someone had injured a person in an accident, paid up his medical expenses, and after some week or month, he got a summons for an accident claim!

Do ask any lawyer friend of yours whether you are well covered based on this, and whether there is any time limit of putting up police case in case of Hit and run accidents. Make sure your loss is limited to what you have already paid till now.

No worries on this front. I have taken their signatures on a Rs 1 revenue-stamp paper by which they accept that all damages have been reimbursed and they owe nothing from me in any form.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Welcome to Team BHP @StepUP. A rocky start, but I can see you have taken it in your stride without getting personal regarding some of the replies you got out here. One would think the Dzire's & Alto's friends were part of the thread discussion members

Thank you!

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

That indeed was exemplary behaviour by the OP and kudos to him for owning up. More than the NCB, what must have put off most folks would have been his uncomplimentary comments on the affected parties.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by speedsatya

Dont understand your logic here . First of all you do a mistake and damage others vehicles ! On top of that , you expect people to be polite with you . Both the car owners were right in asking you to use your vehicle insurance to sort out everything . Why should they use their insurance when its not their fault at all !!

You were just lucky to get away with all this !

Point 1 - I havent read what others have posted here , but lemme clear your misunderstanding here . Those 2 car owners were nice with you for having agreed to use their insurance policies . So your point 1 should have been " Be thankful to people who are nice with you , give them the treatment they deserve "

I understand your point of wearing seat belts , but would be great if you can explain the great insight you got from this experience on not buying a MUL car ?

Originally Posted by arunu

Stepup, by reading your side comments, I get a feeling that you are trying to project yourself as a victim of a road accident rather than the one causing it.

Firstly, the good part.
You did a good (not necessarily the right thing) thing by agreeing to pay up for the difference amounts, but hope you understand that THEY are entitled to get their cars repaired through YOUR 3rd party insurance claim and you are not doing them a favor.

Rather, you should be apologetic and remorseful for damaging 2 cars and ultimately saddening the owners and their families. They may have bought these cars with lot of difficulties,expectations and with great dreams, but because of your negligence, you damaged the cars and saddened them. Everybody has an emotional connection with their cars and something like this will forever leave a scar.
Whatever repairs are done, those cars will carry a damaged car tag throughout their life, for no fault of the owners.
Also this claim will ultimately lead to the car being categorized as accident vehicle and re-sale value will go down considerably.

By reading drmohit and others' similar comments, I understand that claiming 3rd party insurance is a pain, but there MAY be people who would try to take advantage of such pain points and rather pressurize the affected parties to claim their OWN insurance, rather than paying up thru their 3rd party claims.

Finally, boasting about being local and connected does not mean you get away with the mistakes, may be the affected parties also could be well connected and could have lead you to more than just financial troubles.

Very critical lessons learnt - be attentive and never loose sight of the road. Thank your lucky stars and move on.

I did a mistake. I said sorry and accepted my fault. Paid for my mistake. This is maximum I can do.

I can't be apologetic all the time when victims are exploiting the situation; lying about NCB; trying to pressurize me in police station; using abusive language when confronted.

Basically I feel being a victim doesn't authorize anyone to exploit the situation.

I feel insurances are "damage specific" and not "mistake specific". If you are saying why I should use my insurance at no fault of mine then when an unknown truck driver damages your car when parked on road then do you wait till he is caught and then make him pay because it's not your fault and you don't want to use your insurance? No, right?

@arunu : please tell me where did I boast about being local? Is stating 'I am local' boasting?

Originally Posted by Kumar R

Rs. 6,000 is the floor limit for third party damage set by law for the mandatory insurance -- meaning you must buy a policy providing for at least Rs 6,000 cover for third party claims for damaged property (that's why any insurance policy sold today will provide for at least this 6k cover).

Most insurers permit this cover to be increased by slightly increasing the premium. My third party limit on liability for damage to property of others is Rs 7,50,000.



It's a tedious process and poorly explained by insurers. The affected party may file a claim but the OP has to also submit a claim form including copies of the usual documents (RC, etc.). An FIR is a must and since the OP will have no interest in doing this (might well be adverse against him) the affected party has to file the FIR before the claim can be made and and himself pursue the matter in a motor vehicles claims tribunal. Insurance companies do not reveal this but they do nothing on a claim till they are certain the court will award a judgment against the guilty driver (i.e. their policyholder). Ten years back our neighbour was told to get a copy of the police chargesheet against the driver/owner of a taxi who bashed his parked car in the middle of the night in order to file a claim. Left to itself the process can take 4-5 years. With some follow-up it can take 1-3 years depending on how cooperative the cops (and insurer) are.

The entire business model of third party motor insurance business in India is somewhat suspect. It's essentially a zero-sum game because to successfully claim it pretty much means a court judgment against the bad driver along with the interim headaches (cops might and will seize his car, impound his license perhaps, etc.) -- there's no middle path for the guilty driver to accept liability but not suffer legal censure -- meaning no incentive to cooperate. Plus there's the system apathy and time delays. Consequently hardly anyone ever bothers to make such claims and we fall back on own damage policies (where they exist).

I conjecture that the premium for such 3rd party cover does not reflect the risk of a claim payout and so insurance companies are hell-bent on making the process as hard and as distasteful as possible to avoid losing money. Instead if they just increase the premium, they could ease up the claims procedure, solve a huge amount of road rage in the process, make some more money (perhaps) and as a bonus the cost is borne by the guilty driver next year in his own higher premium.

I suppose that's why the premium paid is so low. In my case, the premium for an IDV of Rs 3,50,000 is about Rs 10,000 (own damage) (or 2.8 % of insured sum) but for a third party liability of Rs 7,50,000, the premium is a measly Rs 1,075 (a miniscule 0.1%).

Thank you Kumar for this information.

[arunu]

Originally Posted by StepUP!

No worries on this front. ................

@arunu : please tell me where did I boast about being local? Is stating 'I am local' boasting?

After reading your comments below and also the tone and the context in which it was said, I felt you meant that YOU WERE A LOCAL person who could handle other LOCAL people.

Originally Posted by StepUP!

Why I call them "not nice"; I had replied above. "Be happy that you were not mishandled by the locals" Really? For no life loss, for this damage where I am not running away, I would be mishandled? BTW I am a local here. The Alto guy was not local. I didn't understand your logic.
@ All: NOM to anyone! It's completely my opinion.

Anyways, you may differ with what majority of the members feel, but this thread will also serve as a learning to others. No matter how well you drive, there are chances of accidents due to loss of attention, even for a fraction of a second.

And second one, forget about damager's 3rd party insurance, claim your policy and be happy.

[StepUP!]

@Kumar I have a question to ask. Is third party liability car specific? I mean I have comprehensive insurance for my car. But suppose I am driving some other car which doesn't have insurance and cause an accident. I happen to damage some property. So as the car doesn't have insurance will that third party damage recovered from me? Or my car's insurer will pay for that?

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by StepUP!

But suppose I am driving some other car which doesn't have insurance and cause an accident. I happen to damage some property. So as the car doesn't have insurance will that third party damage recovered from me? Or my car's insurer will pay for that?

Sorry to come in between!

To the best of my knowledge, If the car that you are driving doesn't have insurance and its involved in a accident unfortunately then:

1) Car is highly at the risk of being taken into police custody for not having proper/ legitimate documents.

2) Since you have caused the accident, it wont be easy to pacify the affected parties easily and you may be questioned too. But no one can claim the amount from your insurer or you in any manner because your car was not in the picture.

3) As a sensible driver, one must do a random check of all documents relating to the car.

4) Since your own car is not involved in the mishap so no insurance claim can be taken upon it.

5) Driving someone else's car without an insurance and ending up in a mishap means that the actual owner is liable for the proceedings and settlements.

6) Lastly, curse your luck for being so bad.

Thanks

[Kumar R]

Originally Posted by StepUP!

@Kumar I have a question to ask. Is third party liability car specific? I mean I have comprehensive insurance for my car. But suppose I am driving some other car which doesn't have insurance and cause an accident. I happen to damage some property. So as the car doesn't have insurance will that third party damage recovered from me? Or my car's insurer will pay for that?

Yes -- all motor insurance policies are vehicle specific. Third party policies can operate only when damage to property or loss of life is caused by the vehicle specifically covered under the policy. If you drive another's vehicle your own third party policy cannot be invoked. In case of any monetary liability you incur while driving another's vehicle it will ordinarily be the owner of that vehicle who will be (vicariously) liable (although for criminal charges -- in case of rash / drunken / negligent driving you can be personally liable).

[swarnava.m]

I have a question here. Slightly OT but related to the insurance claims in case of such accidents.

Suppose I am involved in an accident where it is not my fault, and the other party accepts his fault and agrees to pay whatever damages my insurance will not cover. Is there any written agreement reached about this? Or is it only word of mouth at this point?

Later I get my car repaired using my own insurance, and ask him for the difference in damages. If he denies having owned up his fault and agreeing to pay my damages, what can I do? I presume this could be a viable (although unethical) option someone may choose to take.

Sorry if this is an amateur question. Any clarification will be highly appreciated.

[Kumar R]

Originally Posted by swarnava.m

Suppose I am involved in an accident where it is not my fault, and the other party accepts his fault and agrees to pay whatever damages my insurance will not cover. Is there any written agreement reached about this? Or is it only word of mouth at this point?

Later I get my car repaired using my own insurance, and ask him for the difference in damages. If he denies having owned up his fault and agreeing to pay my damages, what can I do? I presume this could be a viable (although unethical) option someone may choose to take.

If the understanding was verbal or unrecorded and he denies it later, there is nothing you can do -- it is your word against his.

It the understanding was in writing or recorded and he denies it later you could in theory institute a civil suit (though that is financially worthwhile only if the amount claimed exceeds about Rs 1.5 lakhs). A perceptive rascal could take a call that despite agreeing to bear costs in writing you will not be the kind of individual to actually litigate.

As a very slight mitigant I would suggest getting his verbal / written agreement in front of a cop -- though he may (correctly) take a call that this too is unlikely to be a problem later.

I have heard and read many stories of people going back on their word -- this seems an old trick to get out of a difficult situation and then deny it later.