[Masda]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

The joker has bought 11 Innova's for his Ministers, to beat the odd-even rule. Now I think Innova is 2.5 litres, somewhat bigger than the 2L limit!! Not good PR!!

I hope this serves as an eye opener for everyone (including a few bhpians) supporting this rubbish odd-even formula. Now for the public transport (or the lack of it!!) -- yesterday had decided to voluntarily not use my car to go from Civil Lines to Kamla Nagar Market at 6:00 PM. I was with my wife. We hailed 4 autos, and ALL of them refused. The fifth one was kind enough to 'oblige'. Now this is the ground reality of our public transport situation.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

We cannot even decide which car did his government bought? There is one media outlet who is reporting this and we have passed a guilty verdict without even listening to the other side. I guess we are a better community of people than those who come across a randon photoshopped post on facebook and start baying for the blood.

Well, this does look like a legit article on the pioneer website. Anyways, it should not be too tough to accept it. If the fellow can give a 400% increase in salary to his cabinet, how tough it is to buy a few more cars to help him and his friends tide over the 15-day mess that he has created?

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Masda

Well, this does look like a legit article on the pioneer website. Anyways, it should not be too tough to accept it. If the fellow can give a 400% increase in salary to his cabinet, how tough it is to buy a few more cars to help him and his friends tide over the 15-day mess that he has created?

Do you want to debate on the legitimacy of the Indian media? Strange that we have more intolerance towards legitimate increase in salary than thousands of crores lost in time/money/services to corruption.

I am of the opinion that lawmakers and elected representative should get more salary than they are getting right now, officially, but that should also come with credibility and accountability.

[Masda]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Do you want to debate on the legitimacy of the Indian media? Strange that we have more intolerance towards legitimate increase in salary than thousands of crores lost in time/money/services to corruption.

I am of the opinion that lawmakers and elected representative should get more salary than they are getting right now, officially, but that should also come with credibility and accountability.

No, I do not wish to debate on the legitimacy of the Indian media. And my views against the 400% increase in salary should not be seen as tolerance towards corruption. My only grouse is with the odd-even formula. Is it a gimmick, or really a fix for pollution. That said, in all honesty I do hope our elected representatives have thought through this one and the odd-even formula succeeds in getting our pollution levels down.

Anyways, without deviating further from the issue at hand, let me share the Air Quality Index recorded today at 9:00 AM from R.K. Puram is at 589; considered Hazardous. (SCREENSHOT ATTACHED)

And I do not take responsibility for the legitimacy of this data or the source website. This is purely an FYI to the discerning fellow BHPians.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

The joker has bought 11 Innova's for his Ministers, to beat the odd-even rule. Now I think Innova is 2.5 litres, somewhat bigger than the 2L limit!! Not good PR!!

Do you really believe in such article? Another Article said its Swift Desire. Have you ever heard any CM sharing his car with others? Last month I was visiting a relative admitted in a hospital. At the same time some prominent leader was also admitted in that hospital. The CM of the state paid him a visit that day in more that 20 SUVs and cars with blaring sirens inside the hospital. Nobody in internet world seems to be bothered about such vulgar display of power.

Originally Posted by Masda

I hope this serves as an eye opener for everyone (including a few bhpians) supporting this rubbish odd-even formula. Now for the public transport (or the lack of it!!) -- yesterday had decided to voluntarily not use my car to go from Civil Lines to Kamla Nagar Market at 6:00 PM. I was with my wife. We hailed 4 autos, and ALL of them refused. The fifth one was kind enough to 'oblige'. Now this is the ground reality of our public transport situation.

Well, this does look like a legit article on the pioneer website. Anyways, it should not be too tough to accept it. If the fellow can give a 400% increase in salary to his cabinet, how tough it is to buy a few more cars to help him and his friends tide over the 15-day mess that he has created?

I took 1 hour 10 minutes to cover a distance of 40 kms from my home to the office. All these years it was never less than 90 minutes on a Monday morning. For me it does not look like rubbish.

Who said anything about improved public transport? It can't be improved in a month. The drive is to curb pollution which is urgent demand of the times.

You know how much was original salary and what is it now? just check the web and you will know the reason behind the increment.

Can't we all wait till January 15 (effectively 5 working days for each individual) to see the results?

[Masda]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

I took 1 hour 10 minutes to cover a distance of 40 kms from my home to the office. All these years it was never less than 90 minutes on a Monday morning. For me it does not look like rubbish.

I agree, congestion has gone down. But was "Congestion" the problem that the govt was trying to solve?

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by Masda

I agree, congestion has gone down. But was "Congestion" the problem that the govt was trying to solve?

Isn't congestion also contributing towards pollution? I guess the pollution will be reduced by keeping some cars off the road. It can't remain the same. Don't you think so?

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Do you want to debate on the legitimacy of the Indian media? Strange that we have more intolerance towards legitimate increase in salary than thousands of crores lost in time/money/services to corruption.

I am of the opinion that lawmakers and elected representative should get more salary than they are getting right now, officially, but that should also come with credibility and accountability.

And how does credibility and accountability come in? By magic?
If someone gets 1 lakh a month, they would be corrupt and if they get 3.5 L they would not be?

Lawmakers are in public service - they should get a salary that enables them live comfortably - not in luxury. I am not ok being taxed to the gills (and I get what the markets pay for my skills, cannot decide how much money from others I am going to keep for myself) to keep morons in the lap of luxury.

If the salary does not suit them, they are free to become i-bankers if they so wish.

Practically living in NCR I can say that anything around 60 K per month enables a comfortable lifestyle.
1 L per month and you have enough for leisure, savings etc.

Back to the issue, the impact on the road today was minimal. I also saw a few odd numbered cars (non-taxi) but 80:20 rather than 50:50. Let us see how it goes.

[myavu]

Mine is an odd numbered. Today is even day. Started from home at 7.25 and reached office at 7.55 am. Distance 16.3 KMs. Had a good walk for 45 Mins in bylanes of CP .

Cheers!

Vinu

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

I took 1 hour 10 minutes to cover a distance of 40 kms from my home to the office. All these years it was never less than 90 minutes on a Monday morning. For me it does not look like rubbish.

But then schools are closed isint it. Theres a significant traffic for schools as well. Its not proper to say things have improved when you artificially restrict lot of movement.

And while reducing congestion is needed but question is how do you do that. By asking people not to work? We all should stay at home (like kids are asked to) and then pollution will also go away? Will traffic still be the same on 18th when schools reopen?

None of this will really help much. Delhi needs to decongest. People need to move out. Ideally (Central) Govt should also move out of Delhi and spread in multiple cities. This country is too much Delhi-centric. We need to realize Delhi cannot keep growing forever. Pollution and congestion are increasing in Delhi as number of polluters and congesters is increasing all the time. Somewhere that has to be controlled and best way is to move them out and keep them out. Its the same problem for us here in Bangalore as well.

[Masda]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

Isn't congestion also contributing towards pollution? I guess the pollution will be reduced by keeping some cars off the road. It can't remain the same. Don't you think so?

Yes, pollution will be reduced. I agree. But reduced by how much is my question? By limiting just 50% of personal cars (well, it should be less than that with all the exemptions -- ladies, sick/differently-abled, CNG, etc.) I doubt if it will make any significant impact on getting the pollution down. Per the article below, even if 100% of cars were taken off the road the impact would be a paltry <1%.

According to this article:

The IIT study has pointed out that 56% of the PM10 (particulate matter up to 10 micrometres) and 38% of PM2.5 pollution comes from road dust and only 9% and 20%, respectively, come from all categories of vehicles combined. Of all the vehicles, 46% of PM10 and PM2.5 comes from trucks and 33% comes from two-wheelers, while four wheelers — only diesel — contribute only 10%, which makes it even less than 1% of the total pollutants.

If the above is true, the odd-even formula addresses a very small cause of pollution, hence my critical remarks.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by joslicx

But then schools are closed isint it. Theres a significant traffic for schools as well. Its not proper to say things have improved when you artificially restrict lot of movement.

And while reducing congestion is needed but question is how do you do that. By asking people not to work? We all should stay at home (like kids are asked to) and then pollution will also go away? Will traffic still be the same on 18th when schools reopen?

None of this will really help much. Delhi needs to decongest. People need to move out. Ideally (Central) Govt should also move out of Delhi and spread in multiple cities. This country is too much Delhi-centric. We need to realize Delhi cannot keep growing forever. Pollution and congestion are increasing in Delhi as number of polluters and congesters is increasing all the time. Somewhere that has to be controlled and best way is to move them out and keep them out. Its the same problem for us here in Bangalore as well.

School traffic does not happen at office hours. I guess you know that.

Tell me, do you know anyone who is not working? I do not know a soul who is planning to take leave on alternate days.

Will you move out of a city voluntarily? I won't, howsoever I want to. there is no job for me in smaller towns.

You are talking about very long term sollutions, and yes they need to come but it will take a lot of time. As of now I will be happy if the winter pollution is reduced by 5-10% of what it was last year.

Who are 'them' you are referring to and how do you propose to move 'them' out and keep 'them' out?

Problem is that we all are criticizing a positive move but non of us a better option that can help Delhites fight the pollution.

Originally Posted by Masda

Yes, pollution will be reduced. I agree. But reduced by how much is my question? By limiting just 50% of personal cars (well, it should be less than that with all the exemptions -- ladies, sick/differently-abled, CNG, etc.) I doubt if it will make any significant impact on getting the pollution down. Per the article below, even if 100% of cars were taken off the road the impact would be a paltry <1%.

According to this article:


If the above is true, the odd-even formula addresses a very small cause of pollution, hence my critical remarks.

Its is not the odd-even rule thet is being implemented here. The overall rull bars trucks entering Delhi before 11:00 IMO. The pollution tax is doubled that has resulted in 20% less truck traffic in the city. Construction sites are being fined and now you will see some brand new green cloth on few of the under construction buildings.

What do we want? Eradicate pollution completely in a day but do not force us to follow measures that can reduce pollution, even if that is marginal. We would rather have highly toxic air than just toxic air. We will not take any pain and we can not leave our cars but want Government to do something to curb pollution. I think it has to be collective efforts.

[rdhawan15]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Delhi needs to decongest.

I am happy that you have identified the root of Delhi's problems. Yes, Delhi needs to decongest and that too with a clear plan of action for next 5 years. Pollution of the air, water, pressure on land and deteriorating crime scenario are symptoms of the much bigger problem of too many people in the city.

The Government needs to think on what can be done to decongest the city and make it more livable. Politics should be kept aside in formulating an action plan which addresses the cause of healthy living in Delhi.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by Masda

I agree, congestion has gone down. But was "Congestion" the problem that the govt was trying to solve?

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

Isn't congestion also contributing towards pollution? I guess the pollution will be reduced by keeping some cars off the road. It can't remain the same. Don't you think so?

Originally Posted by Masda

Yes, pollution will be reduced. I agree. But reduced by how much is my question? By limiting just 50% of personal cars (well, it should be less than that with all the exemptions -- ladies, sick/differently-abled, CNG, etc.) I doubt if it will make any significant impact on getting the pollution down. Per the article below, even if 100% of cars were taken off the road the impact would be a paltry <1%.

According to this article:


If the above is true, the odd-even formula addresses a very small cause of pollution, hence my critical remarks.

My commute is less than 20 kms one way and travel time is usually 45-50 mins. Today I took 30 mins. Fuel burnt for 15-20 mins less. Now multiply that with the total number of cars on road. Add the fuel saved for cars that are off the roads today due to the odd even rule. It won't be a negligible number.

[rdhawan15]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

You are talking about very long term sollutions, and yes they need to come but it will take a lot of time. As of now I will be happy if the winter pollution is reduced by 5-10% of what it was last year.

Winter pollution or SMOG is a unique phenomenon in Delhi. If you get bright sunshine for a few days and the temperature rises, you will have lesser SMOG as the particulate matter will not remain suspended in air.

What we need to realize is that pollution in Delhi or the particulate matter emissions are generated from:

a) Dust particles
b) Diesel
c) Vehicular Pollution

Now, dusting the roads is a big source of the PM emissions in Delhi. Should we stop dusting during the winters? Or, should we use an alternate way that is workable? I am not too sure about either of these suggestions, but I think Delhi would benefit with vacuum cleaning of roads and I know that the Government intends to adopt this new practice from April.

Coming to Diesel, we need to have a clear plan of action. Vehicular pollution does contribute to PM emissions and especially the diesel ones. So, what can be done on a sustainable basis to check this source of pollution? More CNG cars? A push towards electric vehicles? Higher taxes on diesel cars?

Also, the Government needs to do more to control vehicular pollution arising out of the commercial vehicles. The biggest culprits contributing to the vehicular pollution in Delhi have been left out of this ban -namely the commercial vehicles and two-wheelers. If you are serious about having lesser vehicles on the road, please do address these 2 type of vehicles.

You see, we may try to inflict punitive damages on people using diesel cars. But, that won't stop people from buying petrol or CNG cars. So, if the Government wants people to buy a second vehicle that is a CNG driven car or a petrol car, people with gladly oblige. Bans seldom work.

It is too early to say that this measure has helped control pollution. This test is being run under a simulated environment of closed schools. Also, most people want to wait out for 15 days before taking a firm decision regarding a second vehicle purchase to circumvent the ban.

You may see some improvement over the initial phase, but the plan will eventually fail.

And, I would love to have a clean and clear air to breathe in. But, I feel that we are targeting a wrong source while giving the main culprits a free-run during the period.

I will wait out for the full 15 days before seeing the hard facts related to air quality improvements.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

My commute is less than 20 kms one way and travel time is usually 45-50 mins. Today I took 30 mins. Fuel burnt for 15-20 mins less. Now multiply that with the total number of cars on road. Add the fuel saved for cars that are off the roads today due to the odd even rule. It won't be a negligible number.

Its a given that when a certain number of cars are off the road, you'll decongest. To have a problem with lesser traffic, and lower pollution, you'd have to be daft. The issue is regarding alternates. The expectation is to be ABLE to get to where you want in reasonable time and convenience.
By the by, what's your plan for a commute tomorrow? Genuinely curious.