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-   -   No hope for traffic sense? Study says quality of driving depends upon quality of government! (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street-experiences/175292-no-hope-traffic-sense-study-says-quality-driving-depends-upon-quality-government.html)

http://www.citymetric.com/horizons/s...overnment-2015

From the article
So, I guess, there is no hope till we have a good government :p

I don't doubt there is a correlation. The study directly implies that The drivers in countries with less accidents are better drivers. This implies that they are educated about driving at the very least, and so would be able to make rational decisions rather than be driven poorly be emotion or some other transient reason. In India, unfortunately this is not the case. Any and everyone can get a license without any basic qualification to drive.

An interview of rational people will obviously yield different responses than an interview of a random sample of people even within the same country.

I believe education isn't merely learning things but also training the mind to think rationally. Forcing one to study basic driving skills, rules of the road, basic mechanical and electrical functioning of vehicles, and how to respond to different road and traffic conditions will train the mind and also make drivers reactions a lot more predictable.

The first thing a good government should do is to set up a process of examination and quality checks for driving as we already have for aviation in India. Was reading about how the study and passing of basic qualifying exams in aircraft design, performance & engineering, air law, meteorological conditions and navigation is a prerequisite to getting a license.

We already have an RTO infrastructure in place, this can be used to implement this, with centralised online examinations.

There will be those who cry about poor uneducated drivers who need to make a living. The driver may be uneducated in any other respect, but cannot be illiterate about their profession, so that's a false argument.

I'll trust a government that takes such strong decisions, even if unpopular.

P.s. This topic will probably prompt rants from a lot of members like me :D

Even education doesn't ensure the subject is acquiring sense, whether civic or other.

For instance just yesterday on a 2 lane service road parallel to Noida-GN e-way all of a sudden a brown GLE 350 with a UP80 plate came up and started honking and flashing lights. All this while I was peacefully following a bus as there was no space to overtake. The two young occupants (probably retarded) were decently dressed. I have always had this fantasy of having a bazooka and blowing such blokes off the road.

One way probably is to take a photo/video and have that up everywhere to shame people who take traffic rules for granted.

For that matter, majority of Indians do seem to pride themselves of not following rules in any sphere.

Yes, it totally depends upon law enforcement; strict and timely punishments are bigger deterrent than education or sense of civility.

Most of the 'safe' driving countries have very severe penalties which are imposed without bias and long legal process. What we see/ read is the result of such strong enforcement over the years/ decades. I have been to many countries and discussed a lot about the driving sense with the natives (they start the conversation by commenting on India's dangerous driving; one gentleman even showed a video of accidents in India). The common points I find are the strict rules and prompt enforcement.

In my opinion, there is no hope.

With lax traffic law enforcement (the only enforcement happens in spurts) both in Bombay and in Calcutta, the two cities I drive in mostly, drivers are beginning to take more and more liberties.

A few years back, when I moved to Bombay, I was surprised to see how people used to flout the stop line rule at traffic signals. However, compared to Calcutta, driving in lanes was more the rule, mainly because of the higher speed of traffic which rendered lane cutting risky.

Over the years, lane cutting has become more and more prevalent in Bombay. In the suburbs, where you have more auto rickshaws, lane driving is becoming even harder because the narrower auto rickshaw pushes its way between two cars and creates a third lane which then gets occupied by every other car driver eager to get home fast.

Traffic signals are to be obeyed only if there is a risk of a policeman hiding behind a tree ready to pounce of offenders.

Earlier I used to think that if the issuance of drivers' licences was more strictly regulated, the quality of drivers would improve. But now I am beginning to realise that even a well trained driver will not be able to retain his faith in traffic rules once he starts driving in the mayhem all around.

So, no, even a good government will not be able to restore the traffic situation. Not in this country.

I think i agree that driving sense quality is related to the quality of the government. Let me share some recent experience:

Sri Lanka: I recently traveled to Colombo and the traffic sense there pleasantly surprised me. Everyone follows speed limits, cars stop for people crossing the road and people cross the road ONLY on the zebra crossing. Indicators are used, no one drives rashly, and no one honks unless its really necessary. The roads are just brilliant, designed with safety into consideration, well lit highways with proper fencing and road signs. It just felt like being in a developed country and the overall experience was brilliant.

Bangladesh: I was in Dhaka and Chittagong and the traffic sense there is, well there is no sense. Its chaos. No one gives a damn traffic cops, roads are in horrible condition, most cars are automatic and all cars run on CNG. It took us 2 hours to cover 7 KMs, it was horrible. Add to it the manual cycle kart, they drive like they own the road. It is crazy, and kinda pathetic, like their government.

Nepal: I was at Kathmandu, and it was like being in India. They do follow signals, but folks drive rash, vehicles are overloaded, many not well maintained, and it gets chaotic in the peak hours.

Education,is a misinterpreted word.Having degrees is not education.To live beyond the 4 walls, to coexist with the entire humanity, what you need, when provided is called education.
Road etiquettes are not taught to drivers in India.If we look at those truck and bus drivers in India, they act more like goons than drivers and even some car owners/drivers behave the same way.
One more thing I would like to add in the discussion is about the condition of roads. The better the government, better the roads. Our governments could not provide better roads, so what they do? Put more restrictions on the vehicle owners.Drive slow, traffic signals, humps on the roads etc. So, I agree with this argument that quality of driving definitely lies upon the quality of government.
Next, argument is that of which government? State or Central ? In cases like India where the central government wants to do reforms in transport sector, which is opposed by the state governments, whom to be blamed?

Very well said. Mark Twain had differentiated between Schooling and Education.

I don't quite agree with this, specifically about truck drivers. Highway trucks are the best company. I do bicycle rides on NH 8 almost every weekend and I have never felt any risk from the truck drivers. The riskiest are the yellow number plate cabs and the private cars holidaying.

My experience has been that truck drivers, who either own their trucks or ply National routes are quite disciplined. In contrast, it is the inter city/state private buses, yellow plate cabs and some private vehicles which are most indisciplined. And yes, the local trucks ferrying building materials and local goods.
Most annoying, and in fact alarming, is the increased incidence of two wheelers, tractors, jugaads, and what have you blissfully coming on the wrong side on a fast highway. They come on the wrong side on both the innermost lane or the outer. I saw this syndrome on UP highways first, but nowadays have observed it in Rajasthan, Haryana, Gujarat. Not only are these idiots putting themselves at risk, but others too.

yes, that's my observation as well. Inter-state trucks are very considerate and disciplined drivers. Ocassional drivers who take out their vehicles once in a week are most rash, and create most incidents. Their tolerance level of the heat, crowd, traffic is very low and they go through a mental breakdown during tight situations.

Very true that the traffic sense goes hand in hand with the good government.
At some point, the government should decide that we are no longer willing to tolerate the mess created on roads, and put a clear action plan accordingly.
It has to come from many forms:
a) Educate early - Begin by educating from schools the importance of each rules, such as following lane discipline, giving way (instead of taking way or squeezing way), honking only when relevant etc. Now rules are being taught, but the importance ends with "Wear Seat Belt", "Dont drink and drive" and a few traffic signs.
b) Strict license procedure. This should be implemented for every new license, and all those who have licenses given out prior to these should be required to retake the new tests within a time frame to be allowed to continue to drive. Most of all the agents should be flushed out of the system, and most application procedures should be made online.
c) Stricter rules for rule breakers. A short compulsory jail term or a huge fine (varying with income levels) in order to keep the violators under check. More violations and the person should not be allowed to drive in the country for a few years (or never)
d) Then the infrastructure - This has to go hand in hand with others. Without pedestrian crossings, walking pathways, the pedestrians have no other go, but jaywalk. Similarly, as long as there are no proper roads, we cannot control who should drive where. But first if the proper driving habit is installed, even single laned roads can be used with proper road sense.

Indirect link goes through self discipline and overall level of responsibility towards society, if these things are improved everything else (Governance, traffic, level of corruption etc.) will follow.

Direct link is infrastructure, If infrastructure is planned and developed with sole target to achieve purpose (more safety,security and facility for users) and without any hidden interests like corruption, favouritism, It will surely improve safety record.

I think We are gradually improving, but progress is very slow.

2 things alone can make a huge difference:

* Your own sense of well being & happiness
* Respect for your fellow man

Look around you, and see if you can find even 0.5% of people on the road exhibiting either of the above 2 qualities. I commute to work daily on a motorcycle and I always ride in full gear. EVERYDAY, you should see the bewildered looks of people around me - Like they just saw an alien. I am not even going to get into the kind of questions I get asked by my fellow "citizens"

It may sound cynical, but I don't have any hope of these softer aspects improving; at least within my lifetime

The correlation is amusing. It is also said philosophically that the people will always get a government they deserve. In other words the government a nation gets is a direct product of its people. So as an extension it turns out that the quality of driving is a product of the quality of its people !

D-uh?

North Korea has few accidents. Kim will be pleased with this analysis!

If this is meant to reflect upon India, it's not accurate.

We are 1.2 billion people. Personal space is limited. Forget space for vehicles.

What we need is a total ban on traffic signals and road dividers. All over the country.

We're not meant to be regulated. It's never our nature.

I've quoted this example below elsewhere. It's relevant here.

I live in a very busy and narrow street. There's a narrow main road (1 feet wider than my gully) that intersects my road.

That junction is adjacent to a bus terminus. This is another masterpiece. Busses have to make a full lock turn, back off 5 feet into the road and turn again.

Imagine
-the traffic situation every morning. In particular 7.30-8.30 during school runs.

- then from 9-11 during office going hours.

- and the same cycle during evenings.

99% of the time there is NO cop there. Neither mornings nor evenings.

It has no traffic signal because there is no space.

I assure you traffic moves smoothly. It's slow yes. Maybe 5-10 kph max. It's always moving.

People stop and give way for those making turns.

They stop for the busses entering the terminus.

Construction tipper trucks are allowed to turn without problems. These are big size tippers with twin rear axels.

No choice.

If one fellow acts smart and blocks the road all 100+ vehicles are held up.

All good.

Occasionally a traffic inspector and a constable man the traffic.

Result:
- no movement on two roads of junction
- later it's no movement on 3 roads of the junction since vehicles can't turn into the blocked road

I'll vote for pol pot. Please don't get cops there. We'll manage very well thank you.

Some small towns in England have started this no signals policy.

The Idea being that people have enough common sense to manage their traffic. It does not need a Ph.D.

So, in such towns a driver would automatically slow down. Look both sides before going across.

Accidents are down 80%.

I rest my case.