[Divya Sharan]

@ Asifgrkhan
Not entirely. That is why I wrote in my post as 'control' and not ban.
By control, I'm just asking for a sensible upper ceiling to surge prices.

These cab aggregators should not start charging kidneys just because they serve me at 1 AM at night.

Up to 2x is bearable. 4x and above is ridiculous. Why?
Let me explain.

I have to go to the airport at 3 AM. Now, I have 2 options.
1. Take my car and have my room mate/family member drive back home.
2. Hire a cab.

I stay in New BEL road, some 30 km away from the airport. So, the round trip is roughly 60 km. For the sake of simplicity, let's say I get 15 kmpl during the trip (ORR + Hyderabad highway road anyways).

If I choose option 1, then my expenditure would be:
a. 100 rupees for short term parking.
b. 120 rupees as toll.
c. (60km/15kmpl)*67 rupees in petrol = ~270 rupees.

Overall expenditure = 470 rupees. Let's round that to 500.

Now, I choose option 2. I see 2x pricing. It's still fine but bordering on the high end. But 3x or 4x and above is pure robbery.

Why?
a. The driver is still sleepy.
b. He won't switch on the AC, rather roll down the windows.
c. The car is in a pathetic condition. Tires are bald. Rear seat belts are missing/tucked under the seat covers.
d. At times, he gets a call on the phone and chats all the way despite repeated warnings and many more!

Originally Posted by Asifgrkhan

You can vote with your wallet and decide to take a Meru if available or demonstrate your protest and walk the 50 kms to the airport.

No, I would take the airport Volvo service. We being lazy don't use their services. They're frequent in my area and must I say - decently comfortable too. And the driver doesn't switch off the AC to increase mileage either.
And very economical as well. Costs a fraction of what we pay just to avoid few additional minutes of standing at the bus stop.

Originally Posted by Asifgrkhan

And what is this demand of a panic button of these cab aggregators. How many taxis, buses, auto rickshaws etc have panic buttons.

Well sir, that is for MY safety. I want to be absolutely sure that I'm being ferried around in a safe environment. I should at least have some control to notify someone that the cab I'm travelling in needs attention, due to whatever reason.
It maybe random people already sitting in the cab, or a medical emergency or a breakdown.
Cabbies nowadays are just better dressed auto wallahs. No difference otherwise!

Also, your attitude of this being not necessary appalls me. Just because Bihar has always had dowry system and people wishing to change the same, doesn't mean dowry is a good thing! In the same way, if there wasn't a panic button all these days doesn't mean adding one will be futile.

People can spend thousands to plonk a TPMS on their cars when they can get the pressure checked once a week for free, but they have a problem with a small panic button that has so many advantages.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

My question is, is this surge pricing justified? And can I take this up with OLA now?

You saw the "unjustified" surge price and yet YOU BOOKED THE CAB?
I am sorry to say either your definition of justified and unjustified is wrong, or you didn't search for alternatives.

Originally Posted by Divya Sharan

These cab aggregators should not start charging kidneys just because they serve me at 1 AM at night.

Up to 2x is bearable. 4x and above is ridiculous. Why? ...

No, I would take the airport Volvo service. We being lazy don't use their services. They're frequent in my area and must I say - decently comfortable too. And the driver doesn't switch off the AC to increase mileage either.
And very economical as well. Costs a fraction of what we pay just to avoid few additional minutes of standing at the bus stop.

Just like your calculator justifying YOUR scenario - different people will have different justified SURGE prices.
In my case, my time also counts - so if I have to wait for 1 hour to catch a cab, I may prefer paying even 5 times the base fare if the cab is available immediately.

Different people will have different value ascribed to time, convenience, luxury. Please don't follow Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx in trying to come up with a single universal formula for everyone.

Since you have the Volvo and not willing to pay 4X price, it is no brainer that you should go "eyes closed" with Volvo.

***

I feel like giving smelling salts to all the people who still go ahead with booking the Surge price cabs - YOU are the people responsible for surge.
If you don't book, the surge will come down.
Please wake up from your stupor and stop blaming the entire world for your own misdeeds.

[rkg]

1.To run an Auto, one needs to take permit from RTO

2.To run Radio taxi service like Meru, Easy Cabs, one needs permit.
( ever since the murder of a diamond merchant two/three years back on the way to airport, all radio taxi's have GPS unit installed , the route is monitored at control room of respective operator)

3. Uber and OLA have not taken any such permit.

4. They are claiming they aggregators and these rules do not apply to them.

5. Most of cars affiliated to these aggregators, have taxi permits to run interstate or with state. Whereas to run with in city to pick up and drop passengers as short distances, one need to have City taxi permit. Neither Uber /OLA drivers have these permits. Literally they are running the service without permit/license to do so.

6. Why they don't have city taxi permits: simple. If one applies for it, he/she need to fix a meter, like auto wallah

7. When government can fix upper limit or per km charge for Auto/Radio Taxi, why not for Uber & OLA? Are they above Law of the land? Is Meru/Easy Cabs/ Auto's are run by Government? They are also private guys. When they are abiding by the rule of land , why not Uber/OLA?

8. Why nobody questioned the government's fixing of Auto fares/Radio taxi fares? Why they are questioning only now

9. What Uber and OLA are telling Govt is they have only 100 drivers under them. Do anyone thinks they have only 100 drivers each with them? What do you call this attitude?

10. What is this traveling time charge @ Rs 1/ minute? By the same logic everybody should charge ( like railways charging you fare + travel time @ per minute. Bangalore to Delhi is 36 hours. Hence 36*60= 2160 as travel time charge + fare. Do we all agree with it?)

14. Finally OLA/Uber are claiming Rs 6 -12 per km as their charge. Government is permitting them charge upto Rs 19.5/- per KM. That means , they are allowed to charge literally 2-3 times their advertised fare? So why are they unhappy/worried? They should have been happy with this.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by binand

Surge price does not relate to "peak hours". The existence of surge price only indicates that there are more people looking for rides than there are cabs on the road (within the constraints of the provider's model). So even if you are the only person looking for a ride, if there are no cabs available surge price will kick in until at least one driver finds it lucrative enough to forgo their rest and take you to your destination.

At 6 AM, I expect the number of cabbies is very low (many would have logged off after night shift and not enough would have logged on for day shift) whereas the number of people looking for rides would be high (people taking morning commuter flights/trains, work commute etc.).

Originally Posted by alpha1

You saw the "unjustified" surge price and yet YOU BOOKED THE CAB?
I am sorry to say either your definition of justified and unjustified is wrong, or you didn't search for alternatives.

Well, had to go ahead inspite of the "unjustified" pricing as only OLA was showing available cabs at that moment. Some 3/4 of them and as per the driver he logged in at 5:30AM & mine was the 1st booking he got. So, am not sure how peak was the demand. Anyways, thanks for your insight/s.

Lesson learnt as I relied too much on them and left this to last moment. Post that in Jan,2016 when I had similar requirement, pre-booked cab with another provider for same flight and same day(Monday). Paid 1100/- only, which was in the usual ballpark region.

On the topic. Regulation of cabs is a welcome move. Else slowly these radio cabs are becoming as good as Autos who charge random charges as per their will. Only difference, auto guy says it on our face, cab service providers say it via App

[msdivy]

When I am availing a service, I would like to know the maximum price. For instance, a meal at a restaurant, so that I can make an informed decision to whether to avail the service or not. Considering the meal example, I land at a restaurant and if the manager informs me (before giving me the table) that the menu prices have doubled due to large turnout, I would really be pissed off.

I am wary of taking to and fro Ola trip for this reason. Let's say I am fine with 1x fare. Anything more I would prefer to take my car. But I can't make that decision on Ola before the journey. That is what bothers me with surge pricing. As a business, Ola must cap their surge-pricing, as an assurance to their customers and focus on turning them into subscribers.

On the regulation, right now Ola is a monopoly. Hence surge pricing is bad for customers. Govt must create a level field for all players. For this, either Govt can remove all regulations or enforce on all players. As of now, Govt is trying the latter method and have to see if they succeed against app economy.

Govt must consider the former, where-in competition can be built for Ola . Ola is a rogue, who has money backing and is brave enough to taken on the Govt. But there are many capable who do not want to take on the Govt and deal with indecisiveness. If the barrier to entry is removed, many will enter the business and eventually, surge pricing is taken care off.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by rkg

1.To run an Auto, one needs to take permit from RTO
2.To run Radio taxi service like Meru, Easy Cabs, one needs permit.
( ever since the murder of a diamond merchant two/three years back on the way to airport, all radio taxi's have GPS unit installed , the route is monitored at control room of respective operator)
3. Uber and OLA have not taken any such permit.
4. They are claiming they aggregators and these rules do not apply to them.
5. Most of cars affiliated to these aggregators, have taxi permits to run interstate or with state. Whereas to run with in city to pick up and drop passengers as short distances, one need to have City taxi permit. Neither Uber /OLA drivers have these permits. Literally they are running the service without permit/license to do so.
6. Why they don't have city taxi permits: simple. If one applies for it, he/she need to fix a meter, like auto wallah

You are ignoring the gem of a post by Samurai.
Govt regulation and rules MUST change with changing times and technologies.
What was relevant during the auto era may have become totally irrelevant today.

Please explain why on earth do you first of all want "licensed" taxis? You may use the Govt's reasons to buttress your point. But I want you to introspect on why you want "licensed" "regulated" taxis.

7. When government can fix upper limit or per km charge for Auto/Radio Taxi, why not for Uber & OLA? Are they above Law of the land? Is Meru/Easy Cabs/ Auto's are run by Government? They are also private guys. When they are abiding by the rule of land , why not Uber/OLA?
8. Why nobody questioned the government's fixing of Auto fares/Radio taxi fares? Why they are questioning only now

10. What is this traveling time charge @ Rs 1/ minute? By the same logic everybody should charge ( like railways charging you fare + travel time @ per minute. Bangalore to Delhi is 36 hours. Hence 36*60= 2160 as travel time charge + fare. Do we all agree with it?)

Funny, if you don't like the pricing of iPhone, you buy a cheaper phone.
If you don't like the pricing of Barbeque Nation, you go to a local restaurant.
If you don't like the pricing of Rolls Royce, you go and buy a Nano.
If you don't like the pricing of Premum class, you check out Economy class.
If you don't like the pricing of AC luxury buses, you are free to travel non ac on roadway state transport.
If you don't like the pricing of the Snazzy new school at your locality, you are free to seek admission in Govt school.
If you don't like the pricing of the new age cabs, please rely on autos and merus and buses and their fixed fares.

I don't understand why are grown up people acting less mature than their age and crying hoarse the "unfair unfair" slogan, and trying to bring all the prices equal.

14. Finally OLA/Uber are claiming Rs 6 -12 per km as their charge. Government is permitting them charge upto Rs 19.5/- per KM. That means , they are allowed to charge literally 2-3 times their advertised fare? So why are they unhappy/worried? They should have been happy with this.

Funny that you bring this point up.
So you are happy if Ola and Uber jack their prices up to Rs 20/km and be available only 30-60 minutes after you make the booking.

Oh well, you already have the Merus of the world doing that. But looks like you were not happy with them ... and thus chose Olas and Ubers (and also find them "unfair").

Hats off to you.

Originally Posted by msdivy

On the regulation, right now Ola is a monopoly. Hence surge pricing is bad for customers. Govt must create a level field for all players. For this, either Govt can remove all regulations or enforce on all players. As of now, Govt is trying the latter method and have to see if they succeed against app economy.

Govt must consider the former, where-in competition can be built for Ola . Ola is a rogue, who has money backing and is brave enough to taken on the Govt. But there are many capable who do not want to take on the Govt and deal with indecisiveness. If the barrier to entry is removed, many will enter the business and eventually, surge pricing is taken care off.

You have captured the essence. Entry barriers need to go down.
Regulation and licensing needs to either be done away or the method changed to something that allows someone like me to start services in one week's time.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by alpha1

You are ignoring the gem of a post by Samurai.
Govt regulation and rules MUST change with changing times and technologies.
What was relevant during the auto era may have become totally irrelevant today.

Please explain why on earth do you first of all want "licensed" taxis? You may use the Govt's reasons to buttress your point. But I want you to introspect on why you want "licensed" "regulated" taxis.

Funny, if you don't like the pricing of iPhone, you buy a cheaper phone.
If you don't like the pricing of Barbeque Nation, you go to a local restaurant.
If you don't like the pricing of Rolls Royce, you go and buy a Nano.
If you don't like the pricing of Premum class, you check out Economy class.
If you don't like the pricing of AC luxury buses, you are free to travel non ac on roadway state transport.
If you don't like the pricing of the Snazzy new school at your locality, you are free to seek admission in Govt school.
If you don't like the pricing of the new age cabs, please rely on autos and merus and buses and their fixed fares.

I don't understand why are grown up people acting less mature than their age and crying hoarse the "unfair unfair" slogan, and trying to bring all the prices equal.

Funny that you bring this point up.
So you are happy if Ola and Uber jack their prices up to Rs 20/km and be available only 30-60 minutes after you make the booking.

Oh well, you already have the Merus of the world doing that. But looks like you were not happy with them ... and thus chose Olas and Ubers (and also find them "unfair").

Hats off to you.

You have captured the essence. Entry barriers need to go down.
Regulation and licensing needs to either be done away or the method changed to something that allows someone like me to start services in one week's time.

Thanks for the response.

Please forgive my ignorance. Iam thinking we are a civilized society. As per my understanding, any civilized society has certain rules and regulations.

Your cleverly mixing up different issues of affordability with following rule of law

The examples cited by you like Apple/Nano/cheap cell phones all have to follow same rules like paying excise/customs/VAT at applicable rates. There are no different rules for Apple and micromax to sell their products.

As per your own argument, old rules must change.

OLA and UBER were arguing that there are no rules for aggregators, hence it is not their fault.

Thats why government brought new rules and regulations.

When government brings rules, they cry hoarse. Their supporters say, there should be no regulations. If they have problem with rules, they should bring to government's notice and explain the issue and get these rules changed. It happens all the time.

If government do not budge, approach court for redressal.

But don't hold a city to ransom by creating traffic jams. They want browbeat government. how this is different from strikes and bandh's called by political parties?

Cab UBER say the same thing in USA or Europe that we will not follow rules/we do not like your rules, hence we create trafic jams?

Neither had any intention of following the rules. Which was evident from their declaration to government, that they have only 100 drivers each with them. Everyone knows if this is true or not? It means "we do what we want. We don't care any regulations and we are a law on to ourselves".

To best of my knowledge such a thing is called Anarchy not democracy.

Off the topic, if your logic that there should no regulation, why should we have uniform metric system of measurement? Why not allow each shop fellow to their own measurement system. People can argue in the same way "if you want to buy go ahead do it on my terms, otherwise go to another shop where you can get as per your terms".

Or else it can be phrased like

"if you can afford to buy at my terms buy or forget it" just like Uber/Ola are saying.

Some amount of regulation is required, too much control or too much free for all is never good for a civilized society.

I rest my case.

OT: I never used the services of either OLA/Uber. Neither intend to do it. Prefer to drive myself. If i have to catch a flight, i know the flight timings, book meru/easy cabs in advance, rather than being fleeced by Uber/OLA.

[chandrda]

Originally Posted by alpha1

You are ignoring the gem of a post by Samurai.
Govt regulation and rules MUST change with changing times and technologies.
What was relevant during the auto era may have become totally irrelevant today.

Please explain why on earth do you first of all want "licensed" taxis? You may use the Govt's reasons to buttress your point. But I want you to introspect on why you want "licensed" "regulated" taxis.

I couldn't resist myself from reacting to some of your explanation here -

Even the Famed Black Cab of London or NY Cab is licensed and heavily regulated in terms of area where they can operate, fare and driver qualification. These are the so called Capitalist Country. Then why cannot India have a properly policy to regulate the cab operator. Please check on google, most of the Countries either have dispute or have/had banned Uber service and forced them to obtain license, pay tax etc... Why India should be Different in this case?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_...er%27s_service

Originally Posted by alpha1

Funny, if you don't like the pricing of iPhone, you buy a cheaper phone.
If you don't like the pricing of Barbeque Nation, you go to a local restaurant.
If you don't like the pricing of Rolls Royce, you go and buy a Nano.
If you don't like the pricing of Premum class, you check out Economy class.
If you don't like the pricing of AC luxury buses, you are free to travel non ac on roadway state transport.
If you don't like the pricing of the Snazzy new school at your locality, you are free to seek admission in Govt school.
If you don't like the pricing of the new age cabs, please rely on autos and merus and buses and their fixed fares.
I don't understand why are grown up people acting less mature than their age and crying hoarse the "unfair unfair" slogan, and trying to bring all the prices equal.

Not sure why the people who are opposing Uber/Ola Practice are being categorised as Less Grown Up, supporting license raj, being against innovation/technology, being socialist. Please lets have mature and informed debate with out name calling and categorization.

The question is not if I want to go Barbeque Nation or a Local Restaurant.

Question is when I walk into the Barbeque Nation, suddenly they say the buffet is Rs.799 x 6 + tax due to surge pricing, but you cannot see even a single customer and don't understand how they manage the surge pricing.

Question is when I walk into a Snazzy new school, where my son/daughter have been studying for all these years and they say, since there is a huge demand for seat the fee is 6x. If you can afford you stay or take a walk to Govt School. I can go on but I believe the crux of the debate here is license and surge pricing.

End of the Day no one should be above the Law of the Land. Uber/Ola should not interpret the Law in the way which is beneficial to them in the long run. It should be level playing field for all, so that competition can thrive and innovation/technology keeps on evolving. Competition should be encouraged either by Law or by Force so that there is no monopoly and one individual hold everyone to ransom.

Imagine a situation where Uber has killed all the competition with current practice in 5 years time and then starts dictating terms/price which is simply un-affordable? Have a long term perspective...

Regards

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by rkg

14. Finally OLA/Uber are claiming Rs 6 -12 per km as their charge. Government is permitting them charge upto Rs 19.5/- per KM. That means , they are allowed to charge literally 2-3 times their advertised fare? So why are they unhappy/worried? They should have been happy with this.

There are two issues:
a. A price cap that doesn't make sense right now - forget in the future.
b. Radio taxis shouldn't have a price cap to begin with.

Please don't compare promotional pricing courtesy VC / global funds with a long-run sustainable price. The day this easy money runs out, they may need to hike fares. e.g Meru used to be Rs 24 or so. The issue most people are missing is that unlike individual autowalas who don't give a damn about the official rate and charge what they want in excess of mandated rates - Ola/Uber operate on a fully legal white money approach. So they will lose all pricing power for good, and will be at the government's whims and fancies. This is silly. Speak to any dZire cab driver and they'll tell you that 20 rs/km will barely cut it in the absence of the current "incentives".

Let's face it - we uber users are middle / upper class folks.

As opposed to public transport (say buses) or say utilities like power/water, radio taxis don't need price regulation since they are truly a discretionary spend. Hence a price cap makes no sense.

In 2016, the government has better jobs to do than to provide radio taxis at "reasonable" rates. Its job should be limited to regulation on safety and suchlike issues only. Everything else (esp commercials) smells of a hangover of license raj.

[srishiva]

I think whatever the government does, it has to be stupid. Isn't regulating prices good for us, consumers ? Isn't it good for people who are lesser than middle class/upper class ? Or we dont care?

Businesses like Ola and Uber speaking against them is natural and I am sure they will come down to accepting them or after a middle ground is found. There is no barrier that is being created for the existence of these aggregators. There were never stopped when no regulation existed.

[Caramba]

Originally Posted by srishiva

I Isn't it good for people who are lesser than middle class/upper class ? Or we dont care?

Do not believe this is the right way to view. There are a lot of things that I cannot afford so should the government interfere in everything?

Also, today I as a consumer am able at most times to get across bangalore in comfort (I use only Uber) at rates which for me are cost effective. Where there is surge pricing, I take the easiest available mode of public transport or drive/ride myself. By doing this the government is forcing these companies to play safe and charge out at the maximum. Today if there is no surge pricing I as a consumer get a fantastic deal. If not I have other options. Why should I as a consumer lose out on this.

If the government is concerned about the public, then let them invest in public transport and make it more efficient. People have forgotten the joy of dealing with autos, where was/ is the regulation then?

[glenmz]

Lets take Ola and Uber out of the equation. What are we left with?
The regular auto guy will never quote anything less than 80 to cover 1.3 km from the road to the place I stay. With the app based service, I can do the same with 50 or even less (if I hail an Ola auto).
Then there is convenience and economy as well. I do not have to travel to silk board or the railway station to pick up folks coming to visit me. Just have to book a cab from there. Most times, the ride costs anywhere between 120 - 150 from silk board to Marthahalli. This generally works out even cheaper than taking a Volvo bus ride!

And regulating the surge pricing could be a good thing from the POV of the consumers. But as a consumer, you always have an option of knowing the approx amount that you have to pay by checking the ride estimate and ofcourse you need to agree on the surge pricing that shows up. I see many posts shared on social media about the surge prices that the operators charge. I feel they have just ignored the surge warning displayed or were not aware of what that really means. If you do not want to pay the surge price, you can always go and try hailing an auto and haggle with them.

To me, these new gen modes provide me with availability when I need it (well, mostly) and a much fairer fares for travel compared to the traditional means.

And why stop with regulating the app based taxis? Why not the interstate buses who jack the fares 2 to 3 times during the weekends and festival times? Why not those autos who refuse a ride, run with rigged meteres etc?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

Essentially the government is planning to kill the business. Ola and Uber are not only convenient but the service standards are also maintained well. Introducing Government decided fare chart will prove to be a death knell to the business. Ola and Uber drivers will start fleecing or refusing commuters just like auto rickshaw drivers.
Why does government have to poke holes into successful business ventures? I don't understand?

Its called equality in doing business. Just because you are an app, it does not mean you do not follow law of the land.
Now the law may be totally stupid, and you can have civil disobedience, petition your local lords, or your rulers to have it revoked. But till the law stands, it will be upheld.
Not upholding the law would be unfair to other companies which follow the law.

Let me give you a parallel example. Every time you walk into a store, you pay MRP.
Lets say I make an app,and I do not follow MRP. I charge as per demand. Will we say, hey successfull startup blah blah MRP law is stupid.
Well yeah, MRP law is stupid, but then it should be revoked for everything, not just for an APP.

[shyampsunder]

Quite an interesting thread to read. I have been a huge proponent of Uber and Ola in the last couple of years and they have done wonders to ease the commute of millions of people in major cities in India.

But no matter what has happened we cannot allow monopolies to exist in the market. As someone pointed out, there are 2 options, one is to remove all the barriers and encourage as much competition as possible. The other is to make sure everyone has a level playing and the government is taking the latter.

At the same time about this specific debate, I see faults on both sides.

1. In spite of the government fixed fare being 2X-3X more than current rates of Uber and Ola, they are protesting against it. One of the reason is obvious that it restricts their flexibility in pricing. Right now they are heavily incentivizing the drivers during peak times to keep driving and slowing increasing the surge pricing to eventually make sure they don't have to pay out incentives but the drivers keep earning as much. This upper cap is a obstacle to that plan. Another reason which is less obvious is that it sets a precedent for state intervention in aggregator market. Today Karnataka is setting a reasonable amount of Rs 19.6 but tomorrow some other state might set a much lesser amount and the aggregators will have their case weakened because of the legal precedent.

2. The state government's rules are extremely archaic and unfair. For example, they say mandatory physical installation of GPS with GPRS. Today none of the local cabs or autos have it but forcing only the taxi aggregators to implement it is wrong. If their intent is to level the playing field, they should be fair in doing so.

3. Having a illuminated taxi board on top of the cab doesn't make any sense whatsoever because these guys don't encourage hailing down cabs in the middle of the road. The original intent of the illuminated taxi board was to make it easier for the customer to spot these cabs and hail them.

4. Printed receipts with a printer in all the cabs. I don't have to write about how illogical this is when detailed emails are sent out every single time we take a ride with the aggregators.

I feel both sides need to sit down and work out a compromise because there are multiple issues here at play.

[deehunk]

An example of day light robbery by Ola, have just shared the fare estimate below to my home from office. The estimate is for Uber pool and Ola share.
Uber fare feels realistic, Ola