[Garrett]

I feel bad for the kid who lost her life and then I think about the insane parents were sitting relaxed in the car and let the kid peek through the car sunroof and I get so frustrated I mean what were the parents thinking? I see this happening all the time in Bangalore where kids have almost half their bodies out of the sunroof, what if there is some emergency braking scenario that materialises I can't imagine what will happen to those kids and the parents think they are some kind of rich superstars or whatever

The govt should ban that Chinese manjha ASAP as in it should have been a while ago anyway and heavily fine those guys who sell it but the buying has to stop and eventually the selling will too

[SDP]

Originally Posted by NPV

Killer manjha: Delhi govt bans kite-flying thread after 3 deaths in two days

This is classic! Reminds me of the gun-control debate in US - "Ban the guns. Guns kill people". Guns or manja are mere tools, the real killer is the human-stupidity. What next, ban curves on roads because speeding drivers can lose control in turns and thereby cause accidents? A driver/rider has to be aware of his/her surroundings and react accordingly so that all occupants remain safe. I firmly believe that, although a few accidents happens just because of sheer bad-luck, most happen due to driver error.

Yes, I agree, manja is a menace that has to be controlled. But even at the risk of sounding like an insensitive jerk, I would say that the stupidity of the parents is the real culprit here. I am not sure they have even realized that and are humble enough to admit their mistake. This is where I believe pressing charges would help. Yes, losing a child is a punishment big enough. So I don't look forward to the father (assuming he was driving) being thrown in jail. But I definitely want to see the parents owning up the lack of judgement on their part and do community service (they educating others about the dangers of popping head out of a sunroof). This is not about rubbing salt in their wounds. This is about owning up the mistake, learning from it and then helping spread the knowledge so that others don't get impacted in similar accidents.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Sunroofs and kids popping out makes me cringe. There is a reason the roofs child seats and isofix is there. Really upset when i read this email and share the grief with the family. I only hope this is a teaching learning moment and parents take note of this.

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by SDP

Yes, I agree, manja is a menace that has to be controlled. But even at the risk of sounding like an insensitive jerk, I would say that the stupidity of the parents is the real culprit here. I am not sure they have even realized that and are humble enough to admit their mistake. This is where I believe pressing charges would help. Yes, losing a child is a punishment big enough. So I don't look forward to the father (assuming he was driving) being thrown in jail. But I definitely want to see the parents owning up the lack of judgement on their part and do community service (they educating others about the dangers of popping head out of a sunroof). This is not about rubbing salt in their wounds. This is about owning up the mistake, learning from it and then helping spread the knowledge so that others don't get impacted in similar accidents.

Completely agree with your statement. While it's easy to say the manja menace has to be curbed, I'm not sure how it can practically be done. Even if the government can stop this stuff from coming into the country, what about all the stock that's already here? And with our great system ban or no ban this stuff will be available anyway.

And while I know it sounds harsh to criticize the parents, but such bad judgement and stupidity has to have consequences. Only if cases like these are prosecuted will people stop doing it if not out of their better judgement but out of fear of prosecution.

A concern I have with our ban loving authorities is with cases like this on the rise, I hope suddenly sunroofs don't get banned as dangerous items.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by Full_Minchingu

Just today I heard from my friend that, his cousin's kid [boy of 2.5 years] opened the car door while the car was running at minimum speed and passenger along with the kid fell down and where the kid was unhurt and passenger suffered fracture on the left shoulder.

This is surely a mistake for not locking the door or lack of vigilance, but imagine the consequences if this had happened on a highway or busy road.

Regards,
-Badri

This shows two things. The passenger was not wearing his / her seatbelt and the child was neither in a child seat, nor wearing a seatbelt (if old enough). Only after this comes the issue of locking the doors and using the child lock feature. At all times, all occupants, including children must wear their seatbelt (adults) or be restrained in a child seat. This discipline has to be taught to children from an early age so that they don't start getting up and playing around in a vehicle.

The incident you referred to and the main incident discussed in this thread are both cases of endangering a child's life due to the negligence of the parents / driver. In many countries, the driver would have been charged and jailed for this. It doesn't matter if the kite string killed the child or a rock that came flying or an unnoticed tree branch or being ejected due to sudden braking. Not having your child restrained in a moving vehicle is a serious crime.

[vipul_bscity]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Yes, manjha is a social issue, has always been. A sturdy thread coated with a mixture of glass powder and glue is pretty lethal. But then it has always been that way. I think it has been banned, but how well and how will the ban be enforced.

Yes, It has always been that way. Rewind past by 30+ yrs when people used to make their own Manjha (Fine glass powder, boiled in maida, hand coated and sun dried, miles and miles of threads. Some add color to it to personalize the thread). I use to do mine as well. And I myself ran into someone's thread one evening, slicing deep between my Eyelid and Eyebrow. I was lucky. These days we buy it (mostly cheap imports from our neighboring friends).

Kite flying itself kills many when people fall from rooftops etc.

Earlier we use to gather in an open field to fly. Now since open area is now where to be seen, people have come to use roads, society, virtually every possible place to fly kites.

As you rightly said, Ban enforcement is always a question since it is non-inclusive approach to stop something which has been there since ages.

I myself drove recently with daughter peeping out from Sunroof. Foolish I was. Taking a BIG learning here.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by avisidhu

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm not able to fathom why people here are so aggravated with the sunroof thing, when clearly the problem is something else. What if these kids were sitting in a convertible?

How about properly belted in a convertible?

After so many posts, I don't understand how it can not be possible to understand that "sun-roof travel," for any person, of any age, is just a potentially lethal disaster waiting to happen. The additional kite-string risk is just that: an additional, albeit very serious, risk.

Originally Posted by GTO

But as a regular citizen of this country, it's easier for me to control what's happening inside my car than outside of it. I know all the 3,000 car owners who've viewed this thread will never let their kid stand out of the sunroof for sure.

Yes, I appreciate that it is about the thing we can control, and the fact that we should control them. Sitting out of a sunroof has to be discouraged regardless of kite strings.

[autobahnjpr]

If parents are so fond of making the child experience open air in a moving vehicle, it is better to go for an open top jeep, a sunroof for the full vehicle. Peeking out of the small hole in a moving car with no proper support below or in front is a sure recipe for disaster.

Even if the child is very persistent, they should allow it only in open spaces or ground where this is no or minimal chance of any interruption and that too drive at a very slow speed.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I just cannot understand as to how parents can allow kids (or almost infants) to stand with their heads out on the top of the cars. These fellows are Criminals imho.

Yes, manjha is a social issue, has always been. A sturdy thread coated with a mixture of glass powder and glue is pretty lethal. But then it has always been that way. I think it has been banned, but how well and how will the ban be enforced.

It was not typical manjha. It was the chinese made manjha which is essentially plastic thread coated with glass bits, very tough and almost like a fishing line. Completely illegal and a killer.
Reminds me of one occasion where in a moron decided to fly his kite using light steel wire so his kite would not be cut, problem is, his kite got stuck in a power line and idiot died of electrocution

[blackasta]

Went through the thread and the articles. Any death is unfortunate, more so if it is accidental, and worst if its a child who is the victim.

In my opinion, and it may vary significantly with other members, is that banning manjha is not the solution. People have been flying kites using manjha twines since long (albeit home made manjha). Minor accidents have happened from time to time, inadvertently cause by the kite fliers. But seldom it has amounted to death.

Putting half of your body out of the sunroof (especially in India where loose power wires, branches, illegal hoardings are at every corner) is akin to putting half of your body out of the window in a moving vehicle - it's only a matter of time before you get injured (fatally?).

2 out of the 3 cars I have owned in my lifetime had/has a sunroof. A sunroof is NOT a place to peep out, contrary to whatever bollywood/hollywood may seem to suggest. The only times I have peeped out of the sunroof in my car(s) is when they were stationary (maybe for a photo op or to clean the roof).

Stop peeping out of sunroofs, and do not give in to children who want to do so (did you just cave in to a 6 year old's whine?).
You cannot do anything if a 18 wheeler truck loses control and rams into your car, but you can atleast control what passes through that 2 feet gap on your car's roof. Should be air, and nothing else.

[nitinralli]

Originally Posted by SDP

This is classic! Reminds me of the gun-control debate in US - "Ban the guns. Guns kill people". Guns or manja are mere tools, the real killer is the human-stupidity. What next, ban curves on roads because speeding drivers can lose control in turns and thereby cause accidents? A driver/rider has to be aware of his/her surroundings and react accordingly so that all occupants remain safe. I firmly believe that, although a few accidents happens just because of sheer bad-luck, most happen due to driver error.

Yes, I agree, manja is a menace that has to be controlled. But even at the risk of sounding like an insensitive jerk, I would say that the stupidity of the parents is the real culprit here. I am not sure they have even realized that and are humble enough to admit their mistake. This is where I believe pressing charges would help. Yes, losing a child is a punishment big enough. So I don't look forward to the father (assuming he was driving) being thrown in jail. But I definitely want to see the parents owning up the lack of judgement on their part and do community service (they educating others about the dangers of popping head out of a sunroof). This is not about rubbing salt in their wounds. This is about owning up the mistake, learning from it and then helping spread the knowledge so that others don't get impacted in similar accidents.

I so agree with you sanjay. Yesterday when i read this report in newspaper and then saw Facebook reports, i too had same feeling like yours. Why blame Manja when its you (the parents) at fault. The mindset of Indians need to change. I saw posts on FB where everyone was blaming manja and not a single person wrote about parents mistake. Its like in buses/trains its mentioned not to stick your hands out of the window, there's a reason why its mentioned.

Also i agree that these parents should be booked so that it becomes an example for all those people (many in Delhi) who stick there head and sometimes half of the body out of these sunroofs.

But then Indian govt would rather ban sunroof (its much simpler than educating people you see)

[Chetan_Rao]

Truth is always bitter and often insensitive, but every incident like this reminds me of the human tendency to blame everyone/everything else but themselves.

If only there was no kite-string
If only there wasn't a pothole/speed-breaker right there
If only that moron on a scooter who made me brake suddenly was watching where he was going
If only.....

Any of those 'If Only's' could've killed the child just the same, but I don't see a single suffering parent ever lamenting 'If only I had enough brains not to willingly endanger my child'.

Don't even get me started on the sheer injustice meted out to the child. Nobody is held responsible for an easily preventable death? The parents brought this upon themselves (however insensitive that may seem), what about the poor kid? What about her?

[carwatcher]

Blaming in our country is a double-edged sword.
If we blame ourself, there are majority in our country who are out there to take advantage of it be it the crowd or police or the politicians.
If you blame others there is an industry out there to help you be it lawyers, police (again), media and politicians (again).
It's basically a call between what makes one feel better.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Truth is always bitter and often insensitive, but every incident like this reminds me of the human tendency to blame everyone/everything else but themselves.

[AppyS]

This Sirs, is indeed a gut wrenching and horrific turn of events esp for the parents who were out for a drive and the two departed souls who were just being their innocent selves, which was being a child. Now to call the parents criminal for allowing the kid to get out of the sunroof is a bit too harsh I feel. If that is so then the people who sell and buy cars with sunroofs are criminal as well given the prevalence of kite flying as a sport in India. It actually freaks me out reading similar experiences many fm's recounted here, with or without their hand out of a sunroof. Probably it is high time then that manjha and kite flying are banned in residential areas? Or maybe allowed only in restricted places under adult supervision with no drivers/riders/roads around. Maybe we need to curb our enthusiasm and approach kite flying in the gulli danda way, where many parents almost made the game a taboo, owing to the great deal of injuries, esp eye injures caused by the game. No offense to anyone.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

Blaming in our country is a double-edged sword.
If we blame ourself, there are majority in our country who are out there to take advantage of it be it the crowd or police or the politicians.
If you blame others there is an industry out there to help you be it lawyers, police (again), media and politicians (again).
It's basically a call between what makes one feel better.

I'd have to disagree.

Taking responsibility for one's actions - and their consequences - is not a matter of convenience and/or 'feeling better', and it is immaterial how we do it - publicly, privately at home or in our own minds - when we've reflected on events. Blame doesn't have to take the form of chest-thumping indignation, it serves it purpose even when silently reconciling ourselves to our own mistakes without looking for excuses.

'Conscience' is a wonderful thing; as much as one may blame someone/something else for their misfortunes and try their damnedest to convince themselves of it, our conscience ultimately believes no lies and can't be hoodwinked indefinitely.

The only thing that could've definitely kept that child alive in this instance was the parents disallowing a dangerous indulgence called the sunroof (how ironic that something built to let light in snuffed the life out of an innocent), and no amount of denial can change that fact.

Everything else, as I said, is a case of hypothetical 'if only'.